Please help me! Feel hopeless! Forum

[DDemi]

Hi guys, please help with any suggestion! I am so stressed out and probably I will never be able to attend a good law school. I am an international student, undergraduate in a top university in China, master in Columbia U. UGPA 3.7. Good PS and recommendation letters. One year working experience in a law office. I have three LSAT scores, 156(June 2010), 161(Oct 2010) and 158(Oct 2011). I know the score sucks, but I do want to try at the top 30 law schools I checked out the predictor and calculator, it seems I have no chance at any of them. So what do you guys think? Any suggestion as for applying? If ED, which top-30 schools should I try?

[lsatcrazy]

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[murray18]

Top 30 is an arbitrary distinction. T14 will have decent mobility, but otherwise just try to pick a good regional school. Sorry, but your LSAT isn't going to get into the T14, but you certainly have a good shot at some awesome schools. Pick the city you want to practice in (might be hard since youre international...) and blanket the area, with some apps to reach schools. You'll be fine buddy, and feel free to ask any other questions you might have.

[top30man]

Top 30 is an arbitrary distinction.

I think T30 is a good line for very strong regionals (e.g. BC/BU/Fordham/W&M)

I would agree with blanketing 20-40. Whoever gives you a fee waiver, bite. There will likely be a few schools that will seek your good gpa (for this school range) and International status.

[bk1]

Were you PT'ing at much higher than 161? If so I would wait until next June/October/December when you can retake another time or two.

As noted top 30 is meaningless but I'll assume you mean any strong regional school. My advice would be to not ED since none of them are worth sticker price. I would suggest picking an area where you would like to work and trying to get a decent scholarship with minimal/no stipulations to a school in that area even if it is a T2.

[WSJ_Law]

I don't think you will get into any "T30" schools with a 161/worse/worse. Even Alabama (#35 USNWR has a median of 165/3.7).
And if you are an Asian minority student, your ethnicity will not likely help you since Asians are not underrepresented IIRC

EXCEPTION: OP might have a shot at UIUC

[mrtoren]

If you're this stressed out about the selection process, how do you think you'll actually fare in law school?

Honestly, beyond T14, you pick a market go for it. No one is guaranteed a job anymore, regardless of which school you attend. There are unemployed T14 grads out there despite many TTT grads have paying jobs...you can stack the odds in your favor, but you can't predict the outcome. The ideal route is to minimize debt and perform well at whatever school you attend. If you can't handle the uncertainty of today's market..don't go.

[thedive]

If you're this stressed out about the selection process, how do you think you'll actually fare in law school?

Honestly, beyond T14, you pick a market go for it. No one is guaranteed a job anymore, regardless of which school you attend. There are unemployed T14 grads out there despite many TTT grads have paying jobs...you can stack the odds in your favor, but you can't predict the outcome. The ideal route is to minimize debt and perform well at whatever school you attend. If you can't handle the uncertainty of today's market..don't go.

This. Don't just go to a school simply because its in the T30 or even T50 when you are paying out of state/sticker, unless you have help and it is in the market you wish to practice in. Debt minimization at this point is a priority, along with choosing a school that places well within its secondary or even smaller market. A 161 3.7 may get you into a few schools worth going to, but that is if biglaw is not your plan.

[DDemi]

Top 30 is an arbitrary distinction. T14 will have decent mobility, but otherwise just try to pick a good regional school. Sorry, but your LSAT isn't going to get into the T14, but you certainly have a good shot at some awesome schools. Pick the city you want to practice in (might be hard since youre international...) and blanket the area, with some apps to reach schools. You'll be fine buddy, and feel free to ask any other questions you might have.

Thank you for saying so! I do want to stay in New York, since I was studying here and now working here. I guess there are more opportunities for an international student after the law study. Now I am already focusing on the NY area, but I am also wondering in this way I might lose my chances at other higher ranking schools outside of NY, or the east. With this logic, I feel like I need to apply all the schools...

[DDemi]

Hi guys, please help with any suggestion! I am so stressed out and probably I will never be able to attend a good law school. I am an international student, undergraduate in a top university in China, master in Columbia U. UGPA 3.7. Good PS and recommendation letters. One year working experience in a law office. I have three LSAT scores, 156(June 2010), 161(Oct 2010) and 158(Oct 2011). I know the score sucks, but I do want to try at the top 30 law schools I checked out the predictor and calculator, it seems I have no chance at any of them. So what do you guys think? Any suggestion as for applying? If ED, which top-30 schools should I try?

161/3.7 is a "consider" at most schools from 20-30...thats about a 50% chance. If it were me, I would pick one and ED, and apply to all of them...blanket schools 20-40 or so..

But I still might end up with nothing, right? 20-40 schools, that is a lot of money for me...

[fltanglab]

Hi guys, please help with any suggestion! I am so stressed out and probably I will never be able to attend a good law school. I am an international student, undergraduate in a top university in China, master in Columbia U. UGPA 3.7. Good PS and recommendation letters. One year working experience in a law office. I have three LSAT scores, 156(June 2010), 161(Oct 2010) and 158(Oct 2011). I know the score sucks, but I do want to try at the top 30 law schools I checked out the predictor and calculator, it seems I have no chance at any of them. So what do you guys think? Any suggestion as for applying? If ED, which top-30 schools should I try?

161/3.7 is a "consider" at most schools from 20-30...thats about a 50% chance. If it were me, I would pick one and ED, and apply to all of them...blanket schools 20-40 or so..

But I still might end up with nothing, right? 20-40 schools, that is a lot of money for me...

lsatcrazy means blanket schools ranked from 20-40, not apply to 20-40 schools.

[DDemi]

Top 30 is an arbitrary distinction.

I think T30 is a good line for very strong regionals (e.g. BC/BU/Fordham/W&M)

I would agree with blanketing 20-40. Whoever gives you a fee waiver, bite. There will likely be a few schools that will seek your good gpa (for this school range) and International status.

Are there resources to know which school will "seek my good gpa and international status"? Any strategy for choosing among 20-40? Blanketing all of them is expensive.

[DDemi]

Were you PT'ing at much higher than 161? If so I would wait until next June/October/December when you can retake another time or two.

As noted top 30 is meaningless but I'll assume you mean any strong regional school. My advice would be to not ED since none of them are worth sticker price. I would suggest picking an area where you would like to work and trying to get a decent scholarship with minimal/no stipulations to a school in that area even if it is a T2.

For the Oct 2011 test, I were PTing around 170, so I really don't know what happened on the real test. But I don't want to sit and study for a 4th test. The preparation cost too much time in my life...Isn't it supposed that graduates from lower ranking law schools are jobless?

[DDemi]

I don't think you will get into any "T30" schools with a 161/worse/worse. Even Alabama (#35 USNWR has a median of 165/3.7).
And if you are an Asian minority student, your ethnicity will not likely help you since Asians are not underrepresented IIRC

EXCEPTION: OP might have a shot at UIUC

My friends from top schools think except my score, all other things are strong. Won't this help?

[DDemi]

Hi guys, please help with any suggestion! I am so stressed out and probably I will never be able to attend a good law school. I am an international student, undergraduate in a top university in China, master in Columbia U. UGPA 3.7. Good PS and recommendation letters. One year working experience in a law office. I have three LSAT scores, 156(June 2010), 161(Oct 2010) and 158(Oct 2011). I know the score sucks, but I do want to try at the top 30 law schools I checked out the predictor and calculator, it seems I have no chance at any of them. So what do you guys think? Any suggestion as for applying? If ED, which top-30 schools should I try?

161/3.7 is a "consider" at most schools from 20-30...thats about a 50% chance. If it were me, I would pick one and ED, and apply to all of them...blanket schools 20-40 or so..

But I still might end up with nothing, right? 20-40 schools, that is a lot of money for me...

lsatcrazy means blanket schools ranked from 20-40, not apply to 20-40 schools.

Thanks for the clarification!

[DDemi]

If you're this stressed out about the selection process, how do you think you'll actually fare in law school?

Honestly, beyond T14, you pick a market go for it. No one is guaranteed a job anymore, regardless of which school you attend. There are unemployed T14 grads out there despite many TTT grads have paying jobs...you can stack the odds in your favor, but you can't predict the outcome. The ideal route is to minimize debt and perform well at whatever school you attend. If you can't handle the uncertainty of today's market..don't go.

That is a very good point for me to think about! Thanks!

[DDemi]

If you're this stressed out about the selection process, how do you think you'll actually fare in law school?

Honestly, beyond T14, you pick a market go for it. No one is guaranteed a job anymore, regardless of which school you attend. There are unemployed T14 grads out there despite many TTT grads have paying jobs...you can stack the odds in your favor, but you can't predict the outcome. The ideal route is to minimize debt and perform well at whatever school you attend. If you can't handle the uncertainty of today's market..don't go.

This. Don't just go to a school simply because its in the T30 or even T50 when you are paying out of state/sticker, unless you have help and it is in the market you wish to practice in. Debt minimization at this point is a priority, along with choosing a school that places well within its secondary or even smaller market. A 161 3.7 may get you into a few schools worth going to, but that is if biglaw is not your plan.

My plan is go to big law in NYC, at least in the east coast. You are right, debt minimization is important. That's why I hope to do big law in NYＣ．With this logic, I guess attending the top 30 law schools will give me a greater chance in getting such a job to pay my debt.

[Its Always Sunny]

You should check out law school Numbers. I think getting into 20-40 is probably less than a 50-50 chance.

[bk1]

Were you PT'ing at much higher than 161? If so I would wait until next June/October/December when you can retake another time or two.

As noted top 30 is meaningless but I'll assume you mean any strong regional school. My advice would be to not ED since none of them are worth sticker price. I would suggest picking an area where you would like to work and trying to get a decent scholarship with minimal/no stipulations to a school in that area even if it is a T2.

For the Oct 2011 test, I were PTing around 170, so I really don't know what happened on the real test. But I don't want to sit and study for a 4th test. The preparation cost too much time in my life...Isn't it supposed that graduates from lower ranking law schools are jobless?

Yes lower ranking schools have a harder time placing people but schools in the top 30 (or top 50) struggle to place people in jobs that can help repay sticker price debt of $200k+. You'd be better off going to a lower school and not drowning in debt even if you'll have a harder time getting a job since if you went to the better school you would almost assuredly drown in debt no matter what.

If you were PTing around 170 you should take again. Yes LSAT preparation cost a lot of time, but if you go to law school, study a lot during 1L, and then don't well during 1L you will have essentially prepared more than you would have for the LSAT with worse returns since you would be guaranteed to drown in debt. Studying for the LSAT entails little risk since you aren't putting down $60-70k for tuition and other expenses that you would be if you went to law school and gambled that you would do during 1L.

[murray18]

I highly suggest picking a geographic region and blanket the area. If you apply to schools between 20 and 40, not only will you run the risk of not being accepted to alot of schools, but chances are the ones you do get into will be at sticker. If you pick a city, state, or even region, you'll have more options when you're deciding on which school to attend. Like an above poster said, concentrate on price versus quality, not just quality, at this point. If you like NY, throw applications around the northeast (including places like Rutgers... which could be much cheaper considering COL), and pick the best offer. That'll be much easier than having to decide between two schools in vastly different places, both at sticker.

[keg411]

My plan is go to big law in NYC, at least in the east coast. You are right, debt minimization is important. That's why I hope to do big law in NYＣ．With this logic, I guess attending the top 30 law schools will give me a greater chance in getting such a job to pay my debt.

Don't got to law school. Your "plan" has about a 10% chance of happening with your numbers.

[dixiecupdrinking]

My plan is go to big law in NYC, at least in the east coast. You are right, debt minimization is important. That's why I hope to do big law in NYＣ．With this logic, I guess attending the top 30 law schools will give me a greater chance in getting such a job to pay my debt.

Don't got to law school. Your "plan" has about a 10% chance of happening with your numbers.

Agreed. Big law is not likely.

OP, while you are obviously fluent, your writing comes off a little bit stilted and I wonder how comfortable you are with writing quickly and clearly in English. This is going to be a major determinant of your performance on law school exams — and at the schools you are looking at, you need every advantage on those exams to even have a chance at working at a large law firm. Just something to think about.

[lsatcrazy]

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[WSJ_Law]

Dinged at t30 hth

[BKB]

International applicants won't have a LSDAS GPA... and your undergraduate GPA will be considered like a soft factor.
The concensus is that international applicants need an above-median LSAT to have a good chance at any law school.
BTW, have you got you foreign CAS evaluation done? Superior or above average?