NYU vs. UVA for Texas Forum

[PigBodine]

My stats are 3.57/173. According to LSN, I have a good shot at either school with an ED (UVA through a big ED boost, NYU because it looks like they're very LSAT-oriented, and more or less auto-accept everyone with 3.5/173+). The general consensus in the employment forum is that NYU students have somewhat better prospects at around median, although it's not a very big difference.

The only confounding factor is whether UVA places better in the south specifically. I can't find any threads about it through search, but I'll likely be looking to come back to Texas after school. Anecdotally, I've heard that UVA has a lot of prestige in Texas and throughout the South (on account of being the best 'southern' law school, I guess) -- would an NYU degree be less portable than one from UVA? Obviously the majority of NYU kids end up staying in the city, but I'm sure that's largely due to self-selection. Does anyone have any insight into the Texas market, or (if other people want to piggyback off this thread) the Southern market generally? Obviously ties are king, though I've lived in Texas for my entire life, and attended UT-Austin, so I don't think that'll be a big sticking point.

For what it's worth, I guess my order of preference in terms of placement would be something like Boutique-->Midlaw-->Texas Biglaw-->NYC Biglaw.

[splitster1221]

I'm pretty sure UVA has better placement in the south than NYU, maybe by self-selection. Why not consider UT for law school if you want Texas?

[PigBodine]

Thanks for the vote. I'll definitely consider UT Austin if they give me a solid cash offer, but I think there's two reasons I should consider the T13. One is depth of placement -- UT's posted some pretty abysmal placement numbers in the last few years, and it looks like you'd need top quarter to be feeling any kind of confident after 1L. That doesn't leave a lot of room for error, and there's a lot more room for top 1/3 and median kids at slightly better schools. The second is that it opens up new york as a secondary market. I'll always have Texas ties and won't get hit too hard if I decide to come back, whereas if I stay in Austin, I'm more or less locking myself into Texas.

[mrloblaw]

If you don't want to be in NYC, I'm not certain that NYU beats any of the other T14 in portability. It's a great school for biglaw, because it places like a T5 in the city where an ungodly percentage of the biglaw jobs are.

Since you don't want biglaw or NYC, go UVA.

[PigBodine]

Interesting results so far -- making this thread I was 99% sure that the vote was going to be split more or less down the middle. I guess I might have reified the T6 distinction too much when thinking about things -- I hear an awful lot of people say that they'd only pay sticker at T6, and never lower, and that NYU has solidly better job prospects than MVP, even factoring for NYU's location. Thanks for everybody that's voted thus far.

[jake123]

Interesting results so far -- making this thread I was 99% sure that the vote was going to be split more or less down the middle. I guess I might have reified the T6 distinction too much when thinking about things -- I hear an awful lot of people say that they'd only pay sticker at T6, and never lower, and that NYU has solidly better job prospects than MVP, even factoring for NYU's location. Thanks for everybody that's voted thus far.

Would you consider Penn? Does anyone think that has any added advantages over either of the other 2?

[PigBodine]

Would you consider Penn?

Sure. It just seems like it's strictly dominated by NYU in terms of NYC placement and by UVA in terms of name recognition in the south.

[ahduth]

Would you consider Penn?

Sure. It just seems like it's strictly dominated by NYU in terms of NYC placement and by UVA in terms of name recognition in the south.

You would consider it if you're chasing money. Don't big law jobs in TX pay less than the major markets? I'd go for a full ride at UT Austin personally.

[PigBodine]

Don't big law jobs in TX pay less than the major markets? I'd go for a full ride at UT Austin personally.

A little less, but I think it's more than offset by CoL relative to NYC.

[ahduth]

Don't big law jobs in TX pay less than the major markets? I'd go for a full ride at UT Austin personally.

A little less, but I think it's more than offset by CoL relative to NYC.

I hear that, I will have to strongly consider trying to get back to Chicago if my grades turn out halfway decently.

[de5igual]

Don't big law jobs in TX pay less than the major markets? I'd go for a full ride at UT Austin personally.

A little less, but I think it's more than offset by CoL relative to NYC.

Most of the firms in Texas start you off at 160K. Granted, it's usually a compressed lockstep, but until you stay at a firm long enough to be partner, you'll always be better off financially in Texas.

[PigBodine]

Most of the firms in Texas start you off at 160K. Granted, it's usually a compressed lockstep, but until you stay at a firm long enough to be partner, you'll always be better off financially in Texas.

Right on, thanks for the clarification. Any thoughts as to NYU v UVA v UT-A?

[de5igual]

Most of the firms in Texas start you off at 160K. Granted, it's usually a compressed lockstep, but until you stay at a firm long enough to be partner, you'll always be better off financially in Texas.

Right on, thanks for the clarification. Any thoughts as to NYU v UVA v UT-A?

like other posters have mentioned, NYU doesn't really hold any clout over the other T10 outside of NYC. The reason why it's a safer bet for biglaw is because most biglaw is in NYC, and it's a powerhouse there. In southern markets (including Texas), I'm not sure if NYU is thought of as any better than UVA; in fact, it might be less favored since partners would be less familiar with it. Added to that, if you're seriously considering between NYU and UVA, you're likely to get some $ from UVA, which, combined with the lower COA, makes it unquestionably the better option.

the above advice is for Texas biglaw. if you're shooting for midlaw (by the way, what is your definition of midlaw??), some of these firms are a lot more parochial and care a lot less about a school's "national" reputation—in their eyes, Texas (and even SMU, Baylor, etc) are just as good as any school out there. in this case, getting a nice big scholly from Texas isn't such a bad idea. the problem, though, is that your gpa is a tad bit on the low side so an outright full ride might not be possible.

[PigBodine]

Most of the firms in Texas start you off at 160K. Granted, it's usually a compressed lockstep, but until you stay at a firm long enough to be partner, you'll always be better off financially in Texas.

Right on, thanks for the clarification. Any thoughts as to NYU v UVA v UT-A?

like other posters have mentioned, NYU doesn't really hold any clout over the other T10 outside of NYC. The reason why it's a safer bet for biglaw is because most biglaw is in NYC, and it's a powerhouse there. In southern markets (including Texas), I'm not sure if NYU is thought of as any better than UVA; in fact, it might be less favored since partners would be less familiar with it. Added to that, if you're seriously considering between NYU and UVA, you're likely to get some $ from UVA, which, combined with the lower COA, makes it unquestionably the better option.

the above advice is for Texas biglaw. if you're shooting for midlaw (by the way, what is your definition of midlaw??), some of these firms are a lot more parochial and care a lot less about a school's "national" reputation—in their eyes, Texas (and even SMU, Baylor, etc) are just as good as any school out there. in this case, getting a nice big scholly from Texas isn't such a bad idea. the problem, though, is that your gpa is a tad bit on the low side so an outright full ride might not be possible.

I know that the party line is that midlaw doesn't exist -- based on what I've read in the employment forum, I'd modify that to say that it's just incredibly rare and probably just as difficult to get from T10 schools as biglaw. Officially it's defined in terms of the number of attorneys in the office, but I'm using it more in terms of trading part of market salary for reduced hours. I know that it's very unlikely that I'll be able to get a job like that, and I'm not banking on it, I'm just indicating that it's a tradeoff I'd be willing to make if the opportunity were there.

I'll definitely keep that in mind about the parochialism of those kinds of firms, though. It makes sense, and it's good information to have.

[nouseforaname123]

How important is your order of preference for employment? Do you know where you would prefer to practice if you secure a boutique/midlaw job? Do you have any specific boutique/midlaw firms in mind?

I am asking these questions because boutique/midlaw recruiting (to the extent that it exists) can be very different from biglaw recruiting.

[PigBodine]

How important is your order of preference for employment? Do you know where you would prefer to practice if you secure a boutique/midlaw job? Do you have any specific boutique/midlaw firms in mind?

I am asking these questions because boutique/midlaw recruiting (to the extent that it exists) can be very different from biglaw recruiting.

To answer your question, I'd say it's not overriding. I also assumed boutique would likely equal NYC, which was one of the factors leading me toward NYU.


As long as I'm here, I guess I should clarify something else, which is that what the choice really boils down to is whether to ED Virginia. I'm likely in if I do, and almost certainly out if I don't, while I'm likely in at NYU RD, plus a couple other T13s, possibly with money. Considering NYU at sticker means also being able to consider offers from duke, penn, michigan, ut-a, etc. If I'm going to commit to Virginia, I need to do it this week, which means that I'm also doing it blind, and without the ability to back out or consider any other offers.

[DoubleChecks]

Most of the firms in Texas start you off at 160K. Granted, it's usually a compressed lockstep, but until you stay at a firm long enough to be partner, you'll always be better off financially in Texas.

Right on, thanks for the clarification. Any thoughts as to NYU v UVA v UT-A?

like other posters have mentioned, NYU doesn't really hold any clout over the other T10 outside of NYC. The reason why it's a safer bet for biglaw is because most biglaw is in NYC, and it's a powerhouse there. In southern markets (including Texas), I'm not sure if NYU is thought of as any better than UVA; in fact, it might be less favored since partners would be less familiar with it. Added to that, if you're seriously considering between NYU and UVA, you're likely to get some $ from UVA, which, combined with the lower COA, makes it unquestionably the better option.

the above advice is for Texas biglaw. if you're shooting for midlaw (by the way, what is your definition of midlaw??), some of these firms are a lot more parochial and care a lot less about a school's "national" reputation—in their eyes, Texas (and even SMU, Baylor, etc) are just as good as any school out there. in this case, getting a nice big scholly from Texas isn't such a bad idea. the problem, though, is that your gpa is a tad bit on the low side so an outright full ride might not be possible.

I know that the party line is that midlaw doesn't exist -- based on what I've read in the employment forum, I'd modify that to say that it's just incredibly rare and probably just as difficult to get from T10 schools as biglaw. Officially it's defined in terms of the number of attorneys in the office, but I'm using it more in terms of trading part of market salary for reduced hours. I know that it's very unlikely that I'll be able to get a job like that, and I'm not banking on it, I'm just indicating that it's a tradeoff I'd be willing to make if the opportunity were there.

I'll definitely keep that in mind about the parochialism of those kinds of firms, though. It makes sense, and it's good information to have.

First off, I am going to essentially +1 what fobulous said.

Second, midlaw certainly exists if you're looking for firms of a particular size. If you're looking for some clean work hrs//salary trade off...then you are right in that it will be extremely difficult/rare to find haha.

Tough call for me here though, depends on $$ you get and the premium you place on being in NYC//not being in NYC.

[nouseforaname123]

To answer your question, I'd say it's not overriding. I also assumed boutique would likely equal NYC, which was one of the factors leading me toward NYU.

I think f0bolous touched on the issue you're facing with recruiting at boutique/midlaw firms. FWIW, I'll be at a market-paying Texas boutique next summer.

Given your goals:

For NYC biglaw - NYU
For Tex biglaw - UVa/UT (UT wins the tiebreaker with scholarship money)
If you really want to split the difference between the markets, go to UVa

For NYC boutique/midlaw - NYU
For Tex boutique/midlaw - UT. Depending on the specific firm, from UVa, you'll likely be mass mailing to get into boutqiue/midlaw firms. While you can land that type of job through mass mailing, it is probably easier to do it through OCI. Like f0bolous said, many of these boutique/midlaw firms recruit at a limited number of regional schools. Boutique/midlaw offices simply don't dedicate the resources needed to recruit at ~twenty different schools across the country like biglaw firms do.

[CanadianWolf]

Virginia is the better choice if seeking employment in the South.

[PigBodine]

When I made this thread I was pretty confident that I was either going to ED at a huge reach (CC), or just use it to lock up NYU before Christmas, and that the responses I'd get would cement that. Based on the actual response I've gotten, I'm now totally split between EDing UVA vs letting my cycle play out. Eurgh.

[lawschoolgrapedme]

I am from the south, and VA is highly respected. People don't know down here that NYU is a good school.

[crit_racer]

If you're sure you want to work in TX, you should come to UT. Aside from HYS, UT will give you the best opportunities to get a job in TX.

[HeavenWood]

I know that the party line is that midlaw doesn't exist -- based on what I've read in the employment forum, I'd modify that to say that it's just incredibly rare and probably just as difficult to get from T10 schools as biglaw. Officially it's defined in terms of the number of attorneys in the office, but I'm using it more in terms of trading part of market salary for reduced hours. I know that it's very unlikely that I'll be able to get a job like that, and I'm not banking on it, I'm just indicating that it's a tradeoff I'd be willing to make if the opportunity were there.

I'll definitely keep that in mind about the parochialism of those kinds of firms, though. It makes sense, and it's good information to have.

Midlaw definitely exists in secondary markets, especially if you define "midlaw" as any sizeable firm that isn't a v100. Philly, for instance, has quite a few "large midlaws."

[dixiecupdrinking]

I dunno, it seems to me that people with Texas ties do pretty good in Texas from NYU. I think the "NYU = T10 for outside NYC" schtick is a little overblown. UVA is not exactly next door to Texas either. Still, can't say really which is a better choice in this situation.

[ahduth]

I dunno, it seems to me that people with Texas ties do pretty good in Texas from NYU. I think the "NYU = T10 for outside NYC" schtick is a little overblown. UVA is not exactly next door to Texas either. Still, can't say really which is a better choice in this situation.

Yeah, when I looked at it last year, CLS/NYU crushed Penn in both California and Chicago, at least with top v100 firms. Maybe there's a UVA/Southern thing that plays well in Texas?