Buffalo (instate) vs. Hofstra (living at home) Forum

[Jimbola]

Wondering what you all thought of this situation.

I figure between living expenses and the tuition hikes that SUNY is facing, Going to Buffalo and going to Hofstra while living with my mom would cost about the same. If Hofstra were to give me scholarship money it may even be cheaper than living in Buffalo and going to school there.

I just got a 156 on this October LSAT and have a 3.55 GPA calculated by LSP.
Yes, yes I know. I am re-taking it in December, but for argument's sake weigh in on this decision.

Also, I am most interested in criminal prosecution in a DA's office.

[RareBreed]

Where is the "Not worth considering" option?

[Jimbola]

Yeah, the more I think about it you are right.

[bogart]

either of these schools will provide you with the opportunity to work in a DA's office, so in this case, they are both worth attending. If you decide on biglaw however, then neither is a good option. Best advice is to go to UB and intern in the county DA's office. Also, do any clinic work you can in the criminal field. Get to know as many ADA's as possible and be sure to voice your commitment to prosecution at every opportunity. The same advice holds true for Hof, but an island ADA position is much more difficult to get than a western ny one. Good luck to you.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

either of these schools will provide you with the opportunity to work in a DA's office, so in this case, they are both worth attending. If you decide on biglaw however, then neither is a good option. Best advice is to go to UB and intern in the county DA's office. Also, do any clinic work you can in the criminal field. Get to know as many ADA's as possible and be sure to voice your commitment to prosecution at every opportunity. The same advice holds true for Hof, but an island ADA position is much more difficult to get than a western ny one. Good luck to you.

But neither is worth over 120k in loans, especially if one's goal is to work in a DA's office.

[bogart]

The loans are why I would advise against hofstra. UB should come nowhere near 120k with in state tuition and some basic money management; but you are right that the debt issue should be taken seriously.

[Kess]

I'm kind of in the same boat, I'm thinking about CUNY and living at home. Don't think I'll have any loans, but eh, I dont know.

[Jimbola]

Thanks for the advise. I was also thinking about Rutgers in Newark, since you can get instate tuition the first year if you sign a 12 month lease in NJ.

I've heard bad things about CUNY though, Kess. The word is that most lawyers don't take them seriously for being too liberal.

[Kess]

I've heard bad things about CUNY though, Kess. The word is that most lawyers don't take them seriously for being too liberal.

Well, I heard that CUNY is good choice if you're interested in public work. I will also be applying to Buffalo and Hofstra.

[minnbills]

If you want to work in Buffalo then UB is a good option. Honestly, you should retake so scholarships become an option.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

I've heard bad things about CUNY though, Kess. The word is that most lawyers don't take them seriously for being too liberal.

Well, I heard that CUNY is good choice if you're interested in public work. I will also be applying to Buffalo and Hofstra.

Kess- please consider retaking. You are wasting an incredible GPA by not doing so. A 5 point increase would have a dramatic effect on where you can get in and what your scholarship money could be. An 8-10 point increase would give you a very good shot at Fordham.

[northwood]

ub is a good option, but they dont have a lot of scholarship money to throw at you, so you need t do really well, in which case you willl get into better schools.

but it will be difficult to get to NYC from UB

[KCBUFF]

Hey I'm a UB 1L and If you are planning on retaking the LSAT in December for class of 2015 admission and scholarship I would reconsider. Most of the money that UB has is given before you would get your results, A January application may be late to get UB Scholarships. As you are now I don't know if you would get anything, most students who qualify get 5K a year. Buffalo is cheap to live at and if you are conscious of your spending you won't be in a ton of debt. If your only goal is to go the DA route I would go to the cheapest ABA school in the region you want to practice in and just network your face off. DA gigs are less competitive than a lot of other jobs, and they seem to be less impressed by the name on the diploma than other places.

[KCBUFF]

I don't think Fordham is worth sticker If you do get in. No school is really worth sticker unless its like top 5.

[snowpeach06]

I hated UB when I visited, but, it is cheap. What was tuition, 15k or 20k a year? That's gonna be about half the price of Hofstra. Even with living, I think UB would still be cheaper, because you could probably live in that region for about $10k a year - being $30k vs. I think the $50k that is Hofstra. Only thing to consider is how much you care about your quality of life.

[Jimbola]

I hated UB when I visited,

What didn't you like about it?

[bogart]

I hated UB when I visited, but, it is cheap. What was tuition, 15k or 20k a year? That's gonna be about half the price of Hofstra. Even with living, I think UB would still be cheaper, because you could probably live in that region for about $10k a year - being $30k vs. I think the $50k that is Hofstra. Only thing to consider is how much you care about your quality of life.

Are you inferring that Hempstead is better than Buffalo? I assure you most people like Buffalo fine, as it is an actual city with plenty to do. I would be bored to death that far out on the island, but everyone's pace is different.

[snowpeach06]

I hated UB when I visited,

What didn't you like about it?

I don't know, the campus was huge (I felt like I could, and would get lost frequently), and old and dirty, there didn't seem to be much nature. Seemed like an industrial park, I guess. But, that is really just a personal thing.

I hated UB when I visited, but, it is cheap. What was tuition, 15k or 20k a year? That's gonna be about half the price of Hofstra. Even with living, I think UB would still be cheaper, because you could probably live in that region for about $10k a year - being $30k vs. I think the $50k that is Hofstra. Only thing to consider is how much you care about your quality of life.

Are you inferring that Hempstead is better than Buffalo? I assure you most people like Buffalo fine, as it is an actual city with plenty to do. I would be bored to death that far out on the island, but everyone's pace is different.

No. I'm saying he should figure out which place he would like better and then go there.

[Voodoo94]

I don't know, the campus was huge (I felt like I could, and would get lost frequently), and old and dirty, there didn't seem to be much nature. Seemed like an industrial park, I guess. But, that is really just a personal thing.

Well, that's just the North Campus where the Law School is. It doesn't mean you have to live there. There are many great places to live in the City of Buffalo (e.g. Elmwood Ave., Allentown, University Heights). There's a ton to do, a thriving arts scene, and it is very affordable.

If you are going to shackle yourself to a lifetime of debt based solely on the physical characteristics of the building a law school is housed in, I don't know what to tell you.

[snowpeach06]

I don't know, the campus was huge (I felt like I could, and would get lost frequently), and old and dirty, there didn't seem to be much nature. Seemed like an industrial park, I guess. But, that is really just a personal thing.

Well, that's just the North Campus where the Law School is. It doesn't mean you have to live there. There are many great places to live in the City of Buffalo (e.g. Elmwood Ave., Allentown, University Heights). There's a ton to do, a thriving arts scene, and it is very affordable.

If you are going to shackle yourself to a lifetime of debt based solely on the physical characteristics of the building a law school is housed in, I don't know what to tell you.

I understand that you are trying to defend Buffalo, and i"m sure it has some great aspects to it. But everyone tends to forget about quality of life, so you should go where you think you should be happiest. Part of that equation could be debt, sure, but also the building, the city its self, the people, the job prospects, ect. No point in going somewhere you hate just because its cheap. I might add that I was also concerned about the lack of employment prospects outside upstate NY, and the lack of special programs i was interested in. I just feel like saying "go wherever is cheap," isn't necessarily all that there is to consider.

[Voodoo94]

I understand that you are trying to defend Buffalo, and i"m sure it has some great aspects to it. But everyone tends to forget about quality of life, so you should go where you think you should be happiest. Part of that equation could be debt, sure, but also the building, the city its self, the people, the job prospects, ect. No point in going somewhere you hate just because its cheap. I might add that I was also concerned about the lack of employment prospects outside upstate NY, and the lack of special programs i was interested in. I just feel like saying "go wherever is cheap," isn't necessarily all that there is to consider.

For starters, I think you completely underestimate the yoke that is student loan debt and the pressure that puts on your post graduation plans.

UB Law is part of SUNY's flagship campus and is replete with "special" programs such as: JD/MPH, JD/MSW, JD/MBA, JD/MUP, JD/PharmD, etc. It's a place that not only values, but actively encourages interdisciplinary education (e.g. JD candidates can take 9 credits in any graduate department and apply them to the JD requirement).

Back to the original poster's discrete dilemma. We are discussing a choice between UB Law or Hofstra here. The choice between the two should be obvious. For all its flaws, UB Law is NY's "state law school" and is farly well represented in all corners of the state. It is also affordable and it offers many unique curriculum opportunities unavailable elsewhere in NY State (e.g. a Masters Degree with your JD for around $7,000 extra dollars). I think something close to 30% of its graduates practice in the NYC metro area. Additionally, UB Law has a sizeable presence in Washington, DC and I can personally attest that the school punches well above its US News "weight class" in government placements.

As someone originally from "downstate" who know works in Washington, I would like to reiterate that the City of Buffalo has a tremendous quality of life available on a student's budget. It's a shame if your perception of the City was shaped by the impression you got from visiting the UB North Campus and its brutalist architecture.

[Kess]

OP, I'll be interested in seeing you what you choose because I will likely be facing a similar choice. Good luck!

[Jimbola]

Voodoo94 I take it you go to Buffalo?

The main things I am worried about in Buffalo is if it has any pull in the nyc metro area, which you think it does. Also, I was worried that it was a depressed cultural wasteland which you believe it not to be.

In my opinion Long Island is a cultural wasteland and having to pay over $15 for the LIRR for some culture is just too costly and time consuming.

[quiver]

I think something close to 30% of its graduates practice in the NYC metro area.

This is incorrect.
http://law.buffalo.edu/career_services/ ... atistics11
It's only 14% and that includes long island (all of them could be long island for all we know).

Hofstra says that it places 87% in NY and NJ (all of them could be in NJ for all we know, or anywhere else in NY besides NYC).
http://law.hofstra.edu/StudentLife/Care ... stics.html

You said you're looking to be a DA: according to the stats above, Hofstra places 10% into government and UB places 13%. Pretty negligible at that level in my opinion.

Ideally you would retake to either 1) get into better schools or 2) get scholarships at these schools (I think UB gives an automatic 5k scholarship if your LSAT is above 160). If you must choose at this juncture I'd say visit both to determine which you like better; the employment prospects are pretty comparable. I will note that UB pretty much has a lock on the Buffalo area however. Therefore, despite the similarity in employment stats, it may still be easier to get a job from UB (if you don't mind living in Buffalo/upstate) than from Hofstra.

[Voodoo94]

Voodoo94 I take it you go to Buffalo?

The main things I am worried about in Buffalo is if it has any pull in the nyc metro area, which you think it does. Also, I was worried that it was a depressed cultural wasteland which you believe it not to be.

In my opinion Long Island is a cultural wasteland and having to pay over $15 for the LIRR for some culture is just too costly and time consuming.

Jimbola,

I graduated from UB Law in 2005 and completed my dual Masters degree in 2006. I've been in DC working for the Federal government since 2006. I am not a native Buffalonian, yet I try to get back up there at least once a year. It was a fantastic place to go to graduate school for many reasons - low cost, a lot of things to do, and a vibrant, interdisciplinary experience at a Research 1 University - the flagship of the SUNY system.

If you are concerned about a "cultural wasteland", I would implore you to only consider living in the City of Buffalo if you go to UB Law. You should look into living in the Allentown or Elmwood Village neighborhoods. I lived in a great place in University Heights (across from South Campus, the NFTA-Metro (Subway), and shuttle to Law School), but some may find that area too "lowbrow." You can rent a great 2 bedroom apartment in Buffalo (with a roommate) in Buffalo for well under $400 a piece. Buffalo is truly a "20 minute city" - there is no place in the city where it takes longer than a 20 minute commute to get to the Law School.

Yes, UB Law places downstate. While my stats aren't the most current, I believe that a few years ago about 2,300 of our ~9,000 alumni were practicing in Metro NYC. Caveat: the economy sucks now so UB Law has been impacted like everywhere else. YMMV.

The bottom line is that UB Law provides a comprehensive University experience at a far lower cost than Hofstra. If I were you, I would seriously look into one of the dual degree programs. Think about it - if you graduate in May 2015, you wont be admitted into the NY Bar until late January/early February 2016. Why not just pick up a Masters by staying a 4th year and graduate "employment ready" the May after getting your JD (May 2016) - a net "loss" of 3 months. You get a Masters for abut $7,000 extra dollars and double your employment prospects.

If you are concerned about "culture" in Buffalo, here are a few websites to assuage your concerns:

http://www.buffalorising.com/

http://artvoice.com/

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