Free tuition vs. better school Forum

[rwhyAn]

Hey everyone, I have a question that I'd like your input on. I recently got a job working at Rutgers, and one of the benefits is full tuition remission, even for law. I've lived in NJ my whole life and I wouldn't mind practicing here. I would really love to go to Notre Dame, but I'd have to get my numbers up a bit. Even if I got into ND, I'd probably end up paying sticker. Is there even a choice here? I'd have to go part-time at Rutgers, but I'd be able to keep my $50k+ a year job and graduate without debt, versus around $200k worth of debt. What are your thoughts?

[Tiago Splitter]

Is there even a choice here?

No. Rutgers all the way.

[kaiser]

Notre Dame is not worth 200K in debt, and it will be incredibly difficult for you to ever get back to the NJ/NY area. That alone makes this decision easy. The guaranteed free tuition makes is laughably easy. Of course you go to Rutgers.

[johnnyutah]

Rutgers.

[Kilpatrick]

If those are the ONLY two choices then take Rutgers but have you even taken the LSAT yet?

[HeavenWood]

it will be incredibly difficult for you to ever get back to the NJ/NY area.

No.

Notre Dame is not worth 200K in debt

But most definitely this.

[rwhyAn]

If those are the ONLY two choices then take Rutgers but have you even taken the LSAT yet?

Yeah, I have, and my stats are consistent with Rutgers admissions. Those aren't my only two choices, but ND is kind of my dream school, even though I know it's quite a reach for me at the moment. I'll probably apply to a few other schools in the NY/NJ area as well. I'm retaking next Saturday, and I've been in the 164-165 range on my PTs, with my highest being 168. Originally I never thought about ND, but I had started getting my hopes up since my PT scores have been consistently around 165. However, I'm pretty set on Rutgers at this point. How can you turn down free tuition in an area where you're comfortable living and working? I pretty much knew the answer, but wanted to see if anyone else had a different point of view. By the way, since I'd have to do part-time, is that not looked as highly upon by potential employers when compared to full-time programs?

[Helmholtz]

I think somebody would almost certainly be crazy to pay full-tuition at Notre Dame. You have essentially a full-tuition scholarship from a T1 school in the market you want to be in. This is an easy choice.

[gwuorbust]

I think somebody would almost certainly be crazy to pay full-tuition at Notre Dame. You have essentially a full-tuition scholarship from a T1 school in the market you want to be in. This is an easy choice.

[bdubs]

Do you have to keep working during law school? Would you be working part time or full time? Free tuition is great, but if you have a full time workload in addition to school you may end up hating school and doing really poorly.

[23402385985]

Notre Dame is not worth 200K in debt, and it will be incredibly difficult for you to ever get back to the NJ/NY area. That alone makes this decision easy. The guaranteed free tuition makes is laughably easy. Of course you go to Rutgers.

Debatable. There is a huge amount of ND alums in NJ.

[Borhas]

Notre Dame is not worth 200K in debt, and it will be incredibly difficult for you to ever get back to the NJ/NY area. That alone makes this decision easy. The guaranteed free tuition makes is laughably easy. Of course you go to Rutgers.

Debatable. There is a huge amount of ND alums in NJ.

Catholics like ND

[rwhyAn]

Do you have to keep working during law school? Would you be working part time or full time? Free tuition is great, but if you have a full time workload in addition to school you may end up hating school and doing really poorly.

Yes, I'd have to maintain my full-time position, which would result in me attending part-time. I realize that my life might possibly suck, but with the exception of books and fees, tuition is 100% free. It's kind of hard to get past that fact for me. I've thought about it and am still currently weighing my options, but it would be a huge advantage to be able to graduate with no debt while being able to build some savings in the process. I'll still apply to a few schools and see what they have to offer before I ultimately make my decision.

[cinephile]

I'd take the full ride, without a doubt. You're in an enviable position.

[CanadianWolf]

Rutgers. Plus, part-time law school with 100% tuition remission while keeping your full-time job allows you to give law school a risk free test drive.

[crossarmant]

Full-ride to Rutgers all the way. Rutgers is a great school if you want to stay in NJ, Newark isn't really much for NYC but Camden places a ton in Philly. That and for free, it's most definitely the better deal.

[HeavenWood]

Full-ride to Rutgers all the way. Rutgers is a great school if you want to stay in NJ, Newark isn't really much for NYC but Camden places a ton in Philly. That and for free, it's most definitely the better deal.

"A ton" is a bit of a stretch, but yes, Philadelphia is RC's primary market.

[crossarmant]

Full-ride to Rutgers all the way. Rutgers is a great school if you want to stay in NJ, Newark isn't really much for NYC but Camden places a ton in Philly. That and for free, it's most definitely the better deal.

"A ton" is a bit of a stretch, but yes, Philadelphia is RC's primary market.

By ton, I meant that about a third sit for the PA bar and about half sit for NJ. Relative to being a state school, a sizeable portion leave New Jersey even if it is only the 1000 ft over the Delaware.

[HeavenWood]

Full-ride to Rutgers all the way. Rutgers is a great school if you want to stay in NJ, Newark isn't really much for NYC but Camden places a ton in Philly. That and for free, it's most definitely the better deal.

"A ton" is a bit of a stretch, but yes, Philadelphia is RC's primary market.

By ton, I meant that about a third sit for the PA bar and about half sit for NJ. Relative to being a state school, a sizeable portion leave New Jersey even if it is only the 1000 ft over the Delaware.

Well that's cause South Jersey barely has a legal market.

[BarbellDreams]

This isn't close. Rutgers by a mile.

Notre Dame at sticker will be around 200k. That means that you're stuck with biglaw or bust to pay that off. Notre Dame placed 23% in biglaw last year. That means that you essentially need to be top 3rd to get an interview and smoke it for biglaw. On top of that you want NY/NJ, and obviously less than half of those 23% place in biglaw in NY/NJ. So how does this math breakdown (this is very rough just to give you a small idea):

You are paying 200k+ for a (at most) 11.5% chance that you will prosper/pay off your debt. Another 11.5% chance that you'll be able to pay off the debt and be unhappy with your location. And roughly a 77% chance that you will either never pay off your loans or will really struggle to. If you're a gambler you know that these odds are terrible against you.

On the other hand, if you go to Rutgers you will easily stay within the area, have virtually no loans to pay off, and will be able to take any job you can without worrying about salary.

[23402385985]

Notre Dame is not worth 200K in debt, and it will be incredibly difficult for you to ever get back to the NJ/NY area. That alone makes this decision easy. The guaranteed free tuition makes is laughably easy. Of course you go to Rutgers.

Debatable. There is a huge amount of ND alums in NJ.

Catholics like ND

ND is the defacto college football team of choice in NJ. Rutgers is unreasonably shunned.

I would say that ND would hold as much weight in NJ as Rutgers does, if I had to guess. There is a MASSIVE NJ ND contingent. Almost as much as the insanely large NJ-WVU contingent.

[shredderrrrrr]

No debt sounds pretty nice...

[LawSchoolChampion]

What if the schools were between Cornell and BU (Free at BU)?

[HeavenWood]

What if the schools were between Cornell and BU (Free at BU)?

I'd pick BU. I don't think the difference in biglaw placement is anywhere near high enough to justify the extra 160k. Still, I would think a full ride at BU could negotiate some scholly money from Cornell.

[kwais]

What if the schools were between Cornell and BU (Free at BU)?

Find out how median does at each school, assume you'll be there and then ask yourself if you'd be happy at either. If yes? take the money. If biglaw or bust? harder decision