Cornell (assume sticker) or Fordham (90k in aid) Forum

[aaaaaah]

Thanks everyone.

[Rule11]

You're talking about a life-altering amount of debt either way. I'd advise you to go to Cornell for two reasons:

1) More likely to get paid work during 2L summer (if you want it), which could reduce that debt load some;
2) Likely to be lower than 220k all told (if you want it to be), given that cost of living is low in Ithaca.

With those two factors, I think it's probably more like $130 at Fordham vs. $200 or lower at Cornell. Cornell is probably $70k better than Fordham (and that's assuming there are no stipulations on your Fordham scholarship), particularly because you seem lukewarm on NYC biglaw, which is the only area where Fordham outperforms its ranking in any appreciable way.

[Moomoo2u]

I agree with the poster above, Cornell is a better school w/ better placement even in Big law. I would hesitantly say that your job options are almost universally better at Cornell. that being said you would have to live in Ithaca ... which

[aaaaaah]

You're talking about a life-altering amount of debt either way.

That's sort of what I was thinking, too, but I feel crazy for treating 70-90k like it's just nothing.

[aaaaaah]

that being said you would have to live in Ithaca ... which

Ha! Not gonna lie, I was thinking the same thing... until I looked up places on Craigslist and realized I could be paying 1/4 of my current rent. Not gonna complain about that.

[Gemini]

Step 1: visit Cornell. Do you like it? Do you like the atmosphere, the students?
Step 2: Decide if Cornell at sticker is worth the unstipulated $90K you're getting from Fordham.
Step 3: ?????
Step 4: Profit

[danidancer]

Congrats! I made a similar decision last year ($15K/year at Fordham, accepted to Cornell around Memorial Day). Ended up going with Cornell b/c I wasn't sure if I would be able to make top grades at either school and mediocre at Cornell looks a lot better than mediocre at Fordham. But I was also always considering the biglaw path (we'll see how that pans out!). Are you sure Cornell won't give you any financial aid? I ended up getting some token money, which helped make the decision easier.

For biglaw I would definitely say go w/ Cornell, since firms hire deeper into the class than Fordham (and you have no idea as a 0L where you'll be sitting grades wise going into OCI). For federal government I would also say go w/ Cornell, b/c the Cornell name is more portable and likely to open more doors with grades being equal. For NYC government though, I might choose Fordham (though you wouldn't be making a bad decision by choosing Cornell either). Just by being in NYC you'll be able to intern during the year, network more easily, etc etc. I never compared LRAPs so I can't comment on that.

Other things to consider: the difference in student life at the two schools (Cornell is about half the size of Fordham) and the Ithaca v. NYC lifestyle (are you willing to spend 3 years in Ithaca? I was, but it's been a really difficult transition).

Good luck!

ETA: if you do P.I., govt., basically anything except extern for a judge, you're essentially guaranteed summer funding at Cornell. ($4K as a 1L, $5K as a 2L). http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/public ... /index.cfm Fordham offers a similar program, but from what I recall, it wasn't guaranteed.

[aaaaaah]

Haha thanks, Gem! Going to see right now if I can get tomorrow or Friday off. Ahhh.

[aaaaaah]

For NYC government though, I might choose Fordham (though you wouldn't be making a bad decision by choosing Cornell either). Just by being in NYC you'll be able to intern during the year, network more easily, etc etc. I never compared LRAPs so I can't comment on that.

Thanks for the feedback! This is exactly my concern. Right now, I'm very interested in NYC gov work, but I'm just scared my goals might change over the years.

[ndirish2010]

Cornell. Either way, lots of debt, so go to the better school.

[danidancer]

For NYC government though, I might choose Fordham (though you wouldn't be making a bad decision by choosing Cornell either). Just by being in NYC you'll be able to intern during the year, network more easily, etc etc. I never compared LRAPs so I can't comment on that.

Thanks for the feedback! This is exactly my concern. Right now, I'm very interested in NYC gov work, but I'm just scared my goals might change over the years.

In that case, I'd probably go w/ Cornell if I were in your shoes. Your NYC prospects definitely wouldn't be hurt by choosing Cornell, it's more that it would be easier to make connections at Fordham by doing internships, etc. (Though Cornell does allow 2Ls and 3Ls to spend a semester away externing) Your interests very well could change once you start taking law classes, and Cornell will open up a wider array of doors. As someone else said, it's a ridiculous amount of debt either way. Look into the LRAPs - financially, even if you have to borrow more, Cornell may end up being less expensive.

[JamMasterJ]

Fordham is not worth that much debt. See if you can negotiate for any kind of scholly at C. If not go anyway

[WSJ_Law]

Fordham is horrifically overpriced, likely contains scholarship stipulations you are unaware of/aren't likely to attain, and has minimal value outside of NYC biglaw, which you aren't interested in--thus making your debt-laden situation more complicated. Didn't you get WUSTL or UIUC with $$$? I'd wait for Cornell with $ (requires retake) or go to a less expensive regional school with decent LRAP.

Cornell. And at sticker price, you better start warming up to the idea of biglaw.

[aaaaaah]

Fordham is horrifically overpriced, likely contains scholarship stipulations you are unaware of/aren't likely to attain

Just "good standing."

Didn't you get WUSTL or UIUC with $$$?

I'm definitely set on NYC employment. Didn't want to get stuck in the Midwest. Besides, both were offering the same as Fordham. I know COL is cheaper, but if I'm going to a regional school, it will be Fordham.

Thanks for the reply though. I have the same concerns and I'm trying to figure out how much of a gamble both schools are.

[WSJ_Law]

Word. You'll have no trouble making it to NYC, but it's just concerning that you will be in considerable debt + paying NYC CoL + not desiring biglaw. Look into Cornell's LRAP.

[aaaaaah]

Word. You'll have no trouble making it to NYC, but it's just concerning that you will be in considerable debt + paying NYC CoL + not desiring biglaw. Look into Cornell's LRAP.

Agreed. I'm going to see if I can meet with someone about Cornell's LRAP when I visit tomorrow. Just the fact that it covers government work is a major plus for me.

[ndirish2010]

Fordham is horrifically overpriced, likely contains scholarship stipulations you are unaware of/aren't likely to attain, and has minimal value outside of NYC biglaw, which you aren't interested in--thus making your debt-laden situation more complicated. Didn't you get WUSTL or UIUC with $$$? I'd wait for Cornell with $ (requires retake) or go to a less expensive regional school with decent LRAP.

Cornell. And at sticker price, you better start warming up to the idea of biglaw.

Very few, if any, T30s have stipulations.

[WSJ_Law]

o rly? You don't have to maintain good academic standing?

[OnceUponAMemo]

For NYC government though, I might choose Fordham (though you wouldn't be making a bad decision by choosing Cornell either). Just by being in NYC you'll be able to intern during the year, network more easily, etc etc. I never compared LRAPs so I can't comment on that.

Thanks for the feedback! This is exactly my concern. Right now, I'm very interested in NYC gov work, but I'm just scared my goals might change over the years.

In that case, I'd probably go w/ Cornell if I were in your shoes. Your NYC prospects definitely wouldn't be hurt by choosing Cornell, it's more that it would be easier to make connections at Fordham by doing internships, etc. (Though Cornell does allow 2Ls and 3Ls to spend a semester away externing) Your interests very well could change once you start taking law classes, and Cornell will open up a wider array of doors. As someone else said, it's a ridiculous amount of debt either way. Look into the LRAPs - financially, even if you have to borrow more, Cornell may end up being less expensive.

This is good advice. I had the same choice last year and obviously chose Fordham due to both financial and geographic reasons (Went to undergrad in upstate, had enough snow to last me a lifetime, and SO is here in city, Fordham would be MUCH less expensive for me). I think if you are dead-set on NYC gov't, Fordham is a terrific option and I will blindly and without any meritorious/substantive reasons say it probably is better than Cornell for NYC gov't. That said, NYC gov't is a huge pigeonhole and might be the only area Fordham is better than Cornell. Cornell also blows Fordham out of the water and while both are expensive, I think Dani is right, median at Cornell is a much safer place than median at Fordham. I would visit Cornell pronto if you haven't already, imagine it under about 6 feet of snow, then compare to Fordham. Congrats either way and good luck!

[aaaaaah]

This is good advice. I had the same choice last year and obviously chose Fordham due to both financial and geographic reasons (Went to undergrad in upstate, had enough snow to last me a lifetime, and SO is here in city, Fordham would be MUCH less expensive for me). I think if you are dead-set on NYC gov't, Fordham is a terrific option and I will blindly and without any meritorious/substantive reasons say it probably is better than Cornell for NYC gov't. That said, NYC gov't is a huge pigeonhole and might be the only area Fordham is better than Cornell. Cornell also blows Fordham out of the water and while both are expensive, I think Dani is right, median at Cornell is a much safer place than median at Fordham. I would visit Cornell pronto if you haven't already, imagine it under about 6 feet of snow, then compare to Fordham. Congrats either way and good luck!

Thanks for another helpful post, OnceUponAMemo. I am really struggling with the fact that Fordham may very well be better for my specific goals, and for 90k less. This is just one small example, but I found out the guy who teaches election law there is basically the person I want to model my career after. Argh. That said, I worry about Fordham's LRAP and Cornell's better prospects for the more prestigious non-profit positions out there, if I do decide on that route. Well, 48 hours to decide!

[bk1]

I agree that both 130k and 220k are a lot of money, but I don't agree with others that 130k is so much money that you may as well just take the better school for 90k more. I mean Cornell might be the right call, but the difference in price between Fordham and Cornell here is nothing to scoff at. With 130k in debt you could probably be debt free in 15 years (maybe 10 if you're lucky) even if you end up working at a small firm. With 220k debt you're going to be indebted far longer than 15 years if you end up at a small firm.

[ndirish2010]

o rly? You don't have to maintain good academic standing?

Those aren't stipulations. If you aren't in good academic standing, you should drop out or the school will probably do it for you.