UVA vs. NU vs. GULC Forum

[makthadon7]

Hello All!

I'm a longtime lurker, but first time poster. It seems that the common conception around TLS is that UVA>>Northwestern>> GULC. While I see this in the rankings, they are all very close and in pretty much the same tier. I was wondering if people could give some feedback as to why UVA is considered much better, and then NU, followed by Georgetown. I am greatly considering these three schools, $ not an issue, and was wondering what the pros and cons are of all three. Please respond only if you are here to give feedback.

Thank you very much; I appreciate any information at all.

[scribelaw]

NU and UVA are both going to place better at median. Big advantage of having a smaller class size and not bringing on 100 transfers (which results in fewer interviews slots at OCI, etc.)

If you want Chicago or Midwest, go to Northwestern.

If you want DC, go to UVA or GULC.

UVA is a great school, which has a huge and loyal contingent on TLS. What kind of firm/clerkship/etc opportunities you have will mostly depend on how well you do your 1L year at any of these schools.

Really if money isn't an issue, all three are great choices. Go visit them and see which one you like best.

[bk1]

NU and UVA are peers. NU will do slightly better in Chicago, UVA will probably do better in the South (possibly DC as well but DC is really tough from everywhere). They are both seen as slightly better than GULC (though GULC may be better for government, possibly public interest work), the reason being is that it doesn't do as well because its primary market is very very tough to get into and GULC's class size is quite large. So at least on TLS it's more like UVA=NU>GULC.

Why is $ not an issue? Are you independently wealthy? Are your parents bankrolling you?

[makthadon7]

NU and UVA are peers. NU will do slightly better in Chicago, UVA will probably do better in the South (possibly DC as well but DC is really tough from everywhere). They are both seen as slightly better than GULC (though GULC may be better for government, possibly public interest work), the reason being is that it doesn't do as well because its primary market is very very tough to get into and GULC's class size is quite large. So at least on TLS it's more like UVA=NU>GULC.

Why is $ not an issue? Are you independently wealthy? Are your parents bankrolling you?

Thanks for the insight. My parents are willing to pay for my law school education. They are by no means loaded, so in that regard of course I want to save them as much money as possible. However, they specifically told me to go where I feel is the best fit and provides for the best post-graduate opportunities, regardless of the cost.

It seems by both responses that UVA and NU are better because of their smaller class size, and easier job markets. NU being better for the north, with UVA being better for the south. I do realize that GULC is of course a great school as well, I just wanted to get feedback on why TLS gave me the impression that the other two were light-years ahead. Thanks for sharing.

[mikey101]

It seems by both responses that UVA and NU are better because of their smaller class size, and easier job markets. NU being better for the north, with UVA being better for the south. I do realize that GULC is of course a great school as well, I just wanted to get feedback on why TLS gave me the impression that the other two were light-years ahead. Thanks for sharing.

Careful when you say "north." NU only probably has a slight advantage in the midwest/upper midwest. In the northeast (NYC, Philly, Boston) they are essentially peers, with an ever so slight nod possibly going to UVA.

[ndirish2010]

I would think NU's advantage in Chicago is sizable...is it really all self selection?

[makthadon7]

It seems by both responses that UVA and NU are better because of their smaller class size, and easier job markets. NU being better for the north, with UVA being better for the south. I do realize that GULC is of course a great school as well, I just wanted to get feedback on why TLS gave me the impression that the other two were light-years ahead. Thanks for sharing.

Careful when you say "north." NU only probably has a slight advantage in the midwest/upper midwest. In the northeast (NYC, Philly, Boston) they are essentially peers, with an ever so slight nod possibly going to UVA.

Awesome thanks for the distinction. I am mainly looking in for DC, NYC, and also the southeast (that is where I am from). Appreciate you clearing that up for me.

[IAFG]

I got into all three and chose NU because it had a home market. I didn't have faith in UVA's placement in DC, thought I could get NYC as easily from both, and had the Chicago "home market" advantage if everything else fell apart.

[makthadon7]

I got into all three and chose NU because it had a home market. I didn't have faith in UVA's placement in DC, thought I could get NYC as easily from both, and had the Chicago "home market" advantage if everything else fell apart.

What about DC placement in terms of UVA vs. Georgetown?

[tennisking88]

I got into all three and chose NU because it had a home market. I didn't have faith in UVA's placement in DC, thought I could get NYC as easily from both, and had the Chicago "home market" advantage if everything else fell apart.

What about DC placement in terms of UVA vs. Georgetown?

If you do well at both, you should have no problem at either. I would say you could get away with ranking a bit lower at UVA.

[09042014]

I got into all three and chose NU because it had a home market. I didn't have faith in UVA's placement in DC, thought I could get NYC as easily from both, and had the Chicago "home market" advantage if everything else fell apart.

What about DC placement in terms of UVA vs. Georgetown?

If you do well at both, you should have no problem at either. I would say you could get away with ranking a bit lower at UVA.

Nobody has "no problem" at DC.

[ndirish2010]

I got into all three and chose NU because it had a home market. I didn't have faith in UVA's placement in DC, thought I could get NYC as easily from both, and had the Chicago "home market" advantage if everything else fell apart.

What about DC placement in terms of UVA vs. Georgetown?

If you do well at both, you should have no problem at either. I would say you could get away with ranking a bit lower at UVA.

Nobody has "no problem" at DC.

Top 5% people at HLS?

[makthadon7]

Nobody has "no problem" at DC.

Top 5% people at HLS?[/quote]

Getting employment in DC is that hard? What is the reasoning for this over all large cities?

[scribelaw]

Nobody has "no problem" at DC.

Top 5% people at HLS?

Getting employment in DC is that hard? What is the reasoning for this over all large cities?[/quote]

I think this was a joke, but the point is true-- DC firms are a lot more grade selective than NYC. A lot of people want to practice in DC and it's a smaller market.

Whether you go to UVA or Georgetown, you will need top quarter-type grades, and possibly higher if you're straight out of undergrad or your resume is not strong, to get a good DC BigLaw firm.

Most of my friends at Georgetown -- even with top 10 percent grades -- bid a mix of DC/NY because DC is just so risky.

[rayiner]

Nobody has "no problem" at DC.

Top 5% people at HLS?

Getting employment in DC is that hard? What is the reasoning for this over all large cities?[/quote]

DC really is that hard. The competition is insane. In terms of grade sensitivity, I'd say:

1) Wachtell ~= Williams & Connelly
2) Covington
3) Sullivan/Cravath ~= Arnold & Porter, WilmerHale
4) Davis Polk/Simpson Thacher/Cleary ~= hogan lovells, Sidley, Latham DC, Kirkland DC, etc
5) Skadden NY, Kirkland NY = rest of the V100 DC firms