LAW SCHOOL- 149 LSAT 3.8 UGPA- CLIMATE LIKE TEXAS Forum

[daddymike]

I got into IUB as a non-urm OOS with a 151 LSAT. I also got some $ from them. You may have more options than you think.

Agreed, I have a similar story. Got into Iowa with a 151 LSAT, though plenty of soft factors. That said, I think that the advice given by previous posters is correct: Law school will be difficult for you, naturally speaking. Even if you get into a T-25, be psychologically prepared to land on the pejorative side of the grade curve. Many people are not strong enough to accept this and will drop out after first semester or first year. Just keep that in mind as you navigate your best options. Good luck.

[findlayswimmer28]

People on here who say you won't do well with a 149 don't know what they are talking about. My husband was in a similar situation; 149 LSAT, 3.95 GPA, non-URM. He got a 4.0 first semester and ended the year with a 3.5 and top 20%. 1L summer he worked for in house counsel of an insurance company. 2L summer he received a fellowship, which allowed him to work in a prosecutor's office of his choice. You can't let performance on a standardized test dictate your life. If you really want to go to law school, as an URM, you will likely be able to find a T3 or T4 willing to give you scholarship money. As above posters have mentioned, it is likely a T2 will accept you, though without money. Good luck and don't be disheartened.

[deadpanic]

People on here who say you won't do well with a 149 don't know what they are talking about. My husband was in a similar situation; 149 LSAT, 3.95 GPA, non-URM.

This is purely an exception and not the rule. One semi-successful anecdote does not mean you should gamble $150,000.

[mebo28]

People on here who say you won't do well with a 149 don't know what they are talking about. My husband was in a similar situation; 149 LSAT, 3.95 GPA, non-URM.

This is purely an exception and not the rule. One semi-successful anecdote does not mean you should gamble $150,000.

It's not $150,000 if you go to a state school or do well and get money after. If anything, it's gambling your first year - and your cost could be significantly different depending on where that is.

As I previously mentioned, I was in a very similar situation. I decided for a part-time program (if the school offers one, these are usually easier to get into). Instead of, in your words, gambling 1/3rd of the cost I gambled 1/4th. However, as a URM you might be able to get money. For me, I got a grant. Therefore, I was gambling with less than 1/4th the cost.

Cost is definitely a huge consideration. However, there are still ways around that even with a 149.

People gambling away money on their undergraduate degree as well. The OP has obviously succeeded in his undergrad and wants to pursue law. I say take the chance. Pursue what you want to do. If you don't like it or it doesn't work then get out.

The best advice is to apply where ever you want and see what happens, and to not let one standardized test dictate your life. If you want to do law, don't let anyone stop you. I haven't let it stop me, in fact I have used it to my advantage.

[daddymike]

People on here who say you won't do well with a 149 don't know what they are talking about. My husband was in a similar situation; 149 LSAT, 3.95 GPA, non-URM. He got a 4.0 first semester and ended the year with a 3.5 and top 20%. 1L summer he worked for in house counsel of an insurance company. 2L summer he received a fellowship, which allowed him to work in a prosecutor's office of his choice. You can't let performance on a standardized test dictate your life. If you really want to go to law school, as an URM, you will likely be able to find a T3 or T4 willing to give you scholarship money. As above posters have mentioned, it is likely a T2 will accept you, though without money. Good luck and don't be disheartened.

149 LSAT an 4.0 first semester? Where did he attend law school?

[taxguy]

findlayswimmer28, I am glad for your husband,however, for most people, the odds are GUARANTEED 4-1 against being in the top 20%. Moreover, I don't know when your husband got these opportunities,but many opportunies that existed even a few years ago aren't available today. Would you normally gamble $150K on an investment if the odds were 4-1 against you winning? Yes, your husband won,but that still doesn't make it the smart thing to do just like buying lottery tickets aren't very smart, although we all know that there will be at least one winner.

[kwais]

Taxguy? a TLS convert? whoa

[gwuorbust]

Taxguy? a TLS convert? whoa

lol.

but truth is, you can only hold out against logic for so long. mostly everyone becomes a TLS convert after enough time on this site.

[kwais]

Taxguy? a TLS convert? whoa

lol.

but truth is, you can only hold out against logic for so long. mostly everyone becomes a TLS convert after enough time on this site.

I'm proud of him

[Miznitic]

Please don't go to law school.

This is actually the best advice.

... but your LSAT is showing that law school may just not be right for you and you may not be able to think the way you must to be an attorney or successful law student.

BULLSHIT. The LSAT does not show the ability to think like an attorney. It's a standardized test that can be learned, nothing more. It allegedly tests the ability to succeed once in school, but even that is debatable. Once you get into law school, the people with the high LSAT scores are indistinguishable from those with the lower scores.

OP - I would recommend a retake. Prepare for a year and thoroughly LEARN the LSAT. You'll increase your options, and allow for additional funds to be thrown your way.

[rinkrat19]

Once you get into law school, the people with the high LSAT scores are indistinguishable from those with the lower scores.

This is somewhat misleading, because students with similar LSAT scores are largely grouped together by school, so the "higher" and "lower" scores at School X probably only differ by 10 points or so. That's why it's impossible to predict how you'd do in school: because your LSAT falls within that school's range.

No school has classes made up of the full 120-180 range of LSAT scores, so one can only guess at whether there would be a stronger LSAT-to-grades correlation if there were a school like that. (But I feel pretty comfortable guessing that yes, LSAT score would predict grades to a certain extent.)

[crossarmant]

Once you get into law school, the people with the high LSAT scores are indistinguishable from those with the lower scores.

This is somewhat misleading, because students with similar LSAT scores are largely grouped together by school, so the "higher" and "lower" scores at School X probably only differ by 10 points or so. That's why it's impossible to predict how you'd do in school: because your LSAT falls within that school's range.

No school has classes made up of the full 120-180 range of LSAT scores, so one can only guess at whether there would be a stronger LSAT-to-grades correlation if there were a school like that. (But I feel pretty comfortable guessing that yes, LSAT score would predict grades to a certain extent.)

Exactly, that's why you'll hear tales of people at T2 schools who are #1 in their class, but then transfer to T14 and most are then only in top 25%. You may do well at the respective school, but you're only as good as your competition allows you to be.

[ToTransferOrNot]

Once you get into law school, the people with the high LSAT scores are indistinguishable from those with the lower scores.

This is somewhat misleading, because students with similar LSAT scores are largely grouped together by school, so the "higher" and "lower" scores at School X probably only differ by 10 points or so. That's why it's impossible to predict how you'd do in school: because your LSAT falls within that school's range.

No school has classes made up of the full 120-180 range of LSAT scores, so one can only guess at whether there would be a stronger LSAT-to-grades correlation if there were a school like that. (But I feel pretty comfortable guessing that yes, LSAT score would predict grades to a certain extent.)

Exactly, that's why you'll hear tales of people at T2 schools who are #1 in their class, but then transfer to T14 and most are then only in top 25%. You may do well at the respective school, but you're only as good as your competition allows you to be.

Isn't true, or at least wasn't for the transfers in my class.

[legaleagle9]

not to be insulting, but damn. if you are smart enough to get a 3.8, im sure If you just try a little bit harder you are smart enough to get a better LSAT score.

[uzpakalis]

if you are smart enough to get a 3.8, im sure If you just try a little bit harder you are smart enough to get a better LSAT score.

A high GPA in undergrad is usually more attributable to hard work, not intelligence.

[deadpanic]

if you are smart enough to get a 3.8, im sure If you just try a little bit harder you are smart enough to get a better LSAT score.

A high GPA in undergrad is usually more attributable to hard work, not intelligence.

Or an easy major. If i had to do it over again, i'd just go to phoenix online and live/party in my favorite SEC college towns.

[Blessedassurance]

if you are smart enough to get a 3.8, im sure If you just try a little bit harder you are smart enough to get a better LSAT score.

A high GPA in undergrad is usually more attributable to hard work, not intelligence.

Or an easy major. If i had to do it over again, i'd just go to phoenix online and live/party in my favorite SEC college towns.

Ah, but the LSAT is more indicative of intelligence, right?

[deadpanic]

if you are smart enough to get a 3.8, im sure If you just try a little bit harder you are smart enough to get a better LSAT score.

A high GPA in undergrad is usually more attributable to hard work, not intelligence.

Or an easy major. If i had to do it over again, i'd just go to phoenix online and live/party in my favorite SEC college towns.

Ah, but the LSAT is more indicative of intelligence, right?

Actually, yes, it is more objective. Everyone is taking the same test, virtually.

[Blessedassurance]

Actually, yes, it is more objective. Everyone is taking the same test, virtually.

So multiple-choiced exams are more indicative of intelligence than essays too, right? After all, multiple choice can be graded objectively whereas essays leave room for subjectivity, right?

The fact that people take the same test doesn't mean it accurately tests intelligence. People take the LSAT with different levels of preparation and under varying conditions. It's not as level a playing field as you like to think. In fact, LSAC has never claimed to test for intelligence. The LSAT tests specific skills under time constrains which are purported to reflect one's chances of succeeding in Law School and at best, it only accounts for an infinitesimal part of the whole equation.

The irony is the fact that the people who swear by the LSAT come back after 1L to complain about the element of luck in Law School exams. The LSAT is currently better than alternatives that exist, but it is by no means accurate or even close to it. A 5-foot man is considered tall among midgets but not necessarily a tall person in the grand scheme of things. It's all relative.

There are a lot of people with sub 3.0 gpa's who score above 170 on the LSAT. Let me guess, they are otherwise intelligent but not hardworking? How much hard work does it take to get a 3.0 or above?

Intelligence is a broad concept for which the LSAT cannot possibly test and there are different forms of intelligence. Certain people are analytic, others are mechanical. Some are good at math and science, others, at writing and subjects that require analysis, others are good at both. The point is however moot since LSAC has never claimed to test what you claim it tests.

tl;dr version: The LSAT tests a specific skill-set which is believed to predict to a certain degree, one's potential to succeed in Law School, nothing more. It is relatively more important than the gpa because it is more standardized (i.e. more closely resembles a level-playing field) than the gpa.

[cobrachailatte]

148 oct 2009- lots of self preparation
144 dec 2009- self preparation
149 jun 2010- kaplan- lsat extreme-

What did you find hardest about the LSAT? Was it the time constraints? Did you finish each section? Did you bomb any particular section moreso than another? There are plenty of smart/capable people (i.e. 3.8gpa) that, despite the LSAT's learnable nature, just have one problem (like the timing) they can't quite master. This does not rule out whether or not this OP would be a good lawyer, in fact, until we learn more about what she found so difficult about the test, I'm not sure how anyone can be so confident in their assessment that she shouldn't go.

[sparty99]

Hi OP. I have similar numbers and received full tuition scholarships at TTT and significant scholarships at high T2. I was also waitlisted at T1's.....Don't let these people discourage you. If you can get into SMU Part-Time and lobby for money or even work part-time, you could possibly be looking at $20,000 tuition. Imagine if you do the same at Houston, which is already cheap tuition. With your GPA, you can apply to MANY outside scholarships. You could probably get into Howard if you are AA.

I would also consider getting work experience and do that for 2-3 years. Then apply to law school. And apply by October!

[Total Litigator]

I'm really curious as to how you can get a 3.8 in undergrad but score a 149 on the LSAT with tons of prep. I don't mean to sound "elitest" but what kind of undergrad did you go to?

This also speaks to your opportunity costs of going to law school. Even a 3.8 from a bad undergrad will open a decent amount of doors for you... especially in the region...

[sparty99]

Some people are not good with timed tests that test stuff that make absolutely no sense - or is dry in nature (read: reading comprehension on some person I never heard of)....For example, who cares that bob needs to sit next to chris, but can't sit next to Janet, and must be next to Tom.

College (nor real-life business/law/medicine) tests that stuff. Some people get a 3.8 by having book/street smarts. They select the correct professors, they out study the competiton, they choose classes that they enjoy and can excel at. They go to professor office hours to get the "extra points" and establish rapport. Is this tested on the LSAT? No. This is how some people can get high gpa's and not do well on SAT, ACT, GMAT, LSAT, MCAT, ETC. I know people who had to study medicine in the caribbeans because their MCAT's were weak and they studied business undergrad. Now they are doing their residency in the states....

[Noval]

I know people who had to study medicine in the caribbeans because their MCAT's were weak and they studied business undergrad. Now they are doing their residency in the states....

Even if you're dumb enough to go to Caribbean schools for your MD, chances to land any high paying specialty in the U.S. is slim to none.

You friend is surely in Primary Care, which is a horrible job indeed...(Decreasing salaries, increasing working hours, and insurers trying to take over your paycheck + retarded debts to pay back...).

+ Nobody will accept him in a fellowship(Mandatory to practice in huge cities) coming from that kind of joke schools.

[Noval]

I think you can try and play around with lawschoolpredictor, or the predictor thing on LSAC, even if they give you low chances, you may still get in, spread your apps, apply to many, all you need is ONE acceptance afterall, some T2 schools will look favorably at your GPA, get some solid personal statements and recs, I think it's more likely than not that you will at least get into one of them

No. Whatever shit hole that accepts people with 149s aren't worth attending. No one wants to be the person with 6 figure debt, no job, and a JD from a joke of a school.

not true, it's no guarantee that OP will get into a good school, but it is still possible for Mid T2 schools to take her, especially if she's URM (not sure if she is)

Sorry if i'm too late, but seriously, anything below Top-30 at sticker price is a fucking waste of time and money.
Mid T2 Schools are terrible unless you get a full-ride or something similar.

Unless OP retakes to something above 158-160 , his future as a Lawyer is pretty grim.