UCLA v. Fordham Forum

[watsonnyc]

NEW: Tuition: $25,000 a year at UCLA, $25,000 at Fordham. Want to work in NYC but more interested in fields UCLA specializes in. Would be happy living in either city. I have substantial connections in NYC but none in LA.

[thexfactor]

Id take UCLA. Better chance at biglaw + clerkships.

A job is more important than location. You have an outside chance at NY biglaw at UCLA.

[fingersxd]

In state in CA? I'm guessing not, in which case your CoA is probably comparable, right?

Tough to make a call w/out knowing what exactly you want to do (doesn't sound like biglaw). UCLA degree is certainly more portable than Fordham's and all else being equal seems like a better bet.

On the other hand, if you would like your career to take you to NY, why are you leaving (I assume you are)? Are UCLA's programs THAT much better? It seems like with a strong network here, you have more to lose (strength of network where you want to practice, internships) than to gain by leaving NY (UCLA prestige, weather).

[watsonnyc]

I live in New York City now. You think that UCLA offers a better shot at NYC BigLaw than Fordham?

[fingersxd]

I live in New York City now. You think that UCLA offers a better shot at NYC BigLaw than Fordham?

IMO, I don't think that is the case. Or to be more precise, I think the difference (if any) is very minimal. You will need top grades at both, but there is just so much more in the way of networking and familiarity with Fordham at most of the big NYC firms that I think it offsets UCLA's "prestige" boost. Being from NYC as well, I know that Fordham is very well regarded here.

What is your expected CoA at each? Don't forget LA also means owning a car -- its more expensive than people (esp. most NYers) realize.

[watsonnyc]

Do you know if both schools have the same median grading curve?

[fingersxd]

Do you know if both schools have the same median grading curve?

Not offhand, no. You should check with each school, but I'm not sure that it matters. I was considering this same issue as well and after speaking with students, schools, hiring partners, etc. i basically realized that firms aren't dumb. They recognize that schools have different medians and GPA cutoffs and the like often reflect that. I don't think one school having a 3.2 median and the other being at 3.3 (hypothetically) should really have any bearing on your decision.

Maybe I'm wrong and people are free to disagree with my viewpoint but that is just my 2cents.

[bk1]

$40,000 a year at UCLA, $25,000 at Fordham. Want to work in NYC but more interested in fields UCLA specializes in. Would be happy living in either city. I have substantial connections in NYC but none in LA.

I'm assuming you mean UCLA would cost you 40k a year in tuition and Fordham would cost you 25k a year in tuition.

This is pretty easily Fordham since you want to work in NYC and it will be cheaper. It doesn't make sense to put much stock in school specialties.

[watsonnyc]

Correct, UCLA will cost me 40k and Fordham 25k. If I attend UCLA I will come home to NYC to intern during the summers, so what type of connections do you think I would gain from attending Fordham? Do you mean connections with professors during the school year?

Thanks for all of your help!

[bk1]

If I attend UCLA I will come home to NYC to intern during the summers, so what type of connections do you think I would gain from attending Fordham? Do you mean connections with professors during the school year?

Thanks for all of your help!

It's easier to make contacts and network when you're spending the entire year in the place you want to work at as opposed to just the summer. Plus, Fordham is well regarded in NYC and I'd even hazard that it is still better than UCLA in NYC. There are a lot of Fordham alums in NYC whereas there aren't many UCLA alums there.

On top of all that, Fordham is cheaper. Based on your tuition numbers, UCLA is going to run you $180,000 whereas Fordham is going to run you $150,000.

[fingersxd]

Correct, UCLA will cost me 40k and Fordham 25k. If I attend UCLA I will come home to NYC to intern during the summers, so what type of connections do you think I would gain from attending Fordham? Do you mean connections with professors during the school year?

Thanks for all of your help!

You seem very confident of getting good SA positions in NYC during the summers. That is much easier said than done coming out of LA, UNLESS, you've had something essentially promised to you already, in which case, I repeat, why leave NY in the first place?

But yes, you have the connections from professirs, externships and clinics during the school year and the ease of maintaining an existing network of contacts that are all benefits of Fordham.

P.S. if tuition alone is 15k/yr difference, I think the total CoA is probably closer to 20k/yr. Follow the money.

[watsonnyc]

I do have a great summer internship nearly lined up for my 1L summer in Manhattan. I just worry that if I leave NYC for DC that "prestige" of the UCLA degree will transfer much better.

[fingersxd]

I do have a great summer internship nearly lined up for my 1L summer in Manhattan. I just worry that if I leave NYC for DC that "prestige" of the UCLA degree will transfer much better.

This depends largely on when you would "leave for DC." If you mean straight out of school, then yes, UCLA is more impressive (though I'm still not sure it is enough to justify the CoA). But if you are considering DC after a stint in NY, then the prestige factor of the school fades a bit as work experience adds more value. Both are good options. Not sure you can really go wrong (esp. if you ALREADY have a 1L SA lined up...you are way ahead of the game).

[watsonnyc]

Thanks again for all of the help. I have one last question (hopefully): I have my reservations about living in LA and my reservations about how I'd fit in at Fordham. Do you think UCLA would be easier to transfer out of if I was unhappy or would my options be about the same?

[fingersxd]

I think it depends where you were considering transferring. UCLA may have a slight edge, but it is largely a moot point. You absolutely CANNOT pick a school expecting to transfer. You'll need to be no worse than top 10% (if you are transferring 'up') and since everyone has the same expectation going in, you have a 90% chance of being wrong.

[watsonnyc]

Tuition will now be $25,000 at both schools, was just offered more money. Any change in opinion?

[bk1]

Tuition will now be $25,000 at both schools, was just offered more money. Any change in opinion?

Nope because Fordham still does better in NYC than UCLA does and that is where you want to work.

[thexfactor]

i know a higher percentage of people at UCLA get biglaw as compared to fordham. Im not sure about UCLA going to new york. It might be advantageous to go to UCLA cuz there arent that many people that want NY from UCLA.

[summeriffic]

Go to UCLA its more of a "National" school and since you already have strong connections in NY you should pretty much be set!

[fingersxd]

OP, what did you choose?

[watsonnyc]

fingers, PM.