Tulane w $$ or Fordham full price? Forum

[ecuadorlivin]

I'm 24 (two years out of college spent volunteering in ecuador). I've been in Tulane for a few months with 25k/yr. I was just accepted off the WL at Fordham, but it would be A LOT more expensive. The other issue is my fiancee is ecuadorian (just got the visa for us to get married!!) so I will have to support her for awhile until she can get a job (and I don't know how long that will take; it could be a few months before she is legally allowed to work with an EAD and then the job hunt). So if I went to Tulane, it wouldn't be that much of a rush to get her a job, b/c cost of living is lower, I can pay tuition with scholly and stafford/perkins loans with like 3k to spare. I could also take out lots of extra in DirectPlus if wen needed more money. At Fordham, I would need to max out loans just to cover tuition and expenses for me (with her food will cost more, insurance will be more than double, transportation costs higher, rent higher, utilities higher - so the 73k number isnt enough and idk where else to turn). Also, she is a native spanish speaker, so I think that would be more marketable in nola than in nyc. I know nothing abt the job market in either city. NYC is much closer to where my family lives, which also is a factor. This is all alot to think about and I only have until the end of the week. Hypothetically if my fiancee made just enough to cover the extra expenses that she causes, I graduate Tulane with about 90k in debt and fordham with 240k (including accumulating interest during the 3 years). It's rough math and it could change depending on many factors, but just to put a number to what i mean by "a lot more expensive."

I guess basically my question is Fordham worth the significantly higher debt and the extra-frugal living for three years?

[Aberzombie1892]

ah...Tulane seems to be the better financial choice.

[PDaddy]

ah...Tulane seems to be the better financial choice.

Not only is it the better financial choice, you really aren't losing anything education-wise. On top of that, Tulane is the one non-T14 school not located in the east/northeast that provides decent access to NY Biglaw. Vandy is essentially T14 and is located essentially in the east/southeast, and Texas, UCLA, USC, and N.D. don't sent a ton of grads to NY. Tulane also has better access to markets like Dallas, Houston and Los Angeles. Fordham is decidedly regional, meaning you have far less flexibility after graduation.

[bk1]

I guess basically my question is Fordham worth the significantly higher debt and the extra-frugal living for three years?

Not even close. Enjoy NOLA.

On top of that, Tulane is the one non-T14 school not located in the east/northeast that provides decent access to NY Biglaw.

Vanderbilt would like to have a word with you.

[PDaddy]

I guess basically my question is Fordham worth the significantly higher debt and the extra-frugal living for three years?

Not even close. Enjoy NOLA.

On top of that, Tulane is the one non-T14 school not located in the east/northeast that provides decent access to NY Biglaw.

Vanderbilt would like to have a word with you.

I considered Vandy, but Vandy is really a T14, even though Texas got ranked there before vandy did. Vandy is a technical exception in this convo. And...Vandy resides in the "east"...or at least the "southeast".

[ecuadorlivin]

Thanks for such quick responses. I appreciate everyone's advice.

I should mention I'm interested in int'l law. Fordham I think has a more reputable int'l law program. I could see working overseas, but in the states it would prob be northeast. I don't see working in LA or Texas. Idk if that changes anyone's recommendation. Also, looking at average salaries Tulane is 80k and Fordham is 125k. I know there are two tiers, so that tells me Fordham places way more in the higher tier, so paying off the extra debt might not be as difficult. Anyway, more to consider.

[Aberzombie1892]

Thanks for such quick responses. I appreciate everyone's advice.

I should mention I'm interested in int'l law. Fordham I think has a more reputable int'l law program. I could see working overseas, but in the states it would prob be northeast. I don't see working in LA or Texas. Idk if that changes anyone's recommendation. Also, looking at average salaries Tulane is 80k and Fordham is 125k. I know there are two tiers, so that tells me Fordham places way more in the higher tier, so paying off the extra debt might not be as difficult. Anyway, more to consider.

Two tiers?

The salary discrepancy can be explained in part with the higher salaries in NYC to compensate for the higher cost of living and city tax.

Don't worry too much about salary. Your grades and what markets you target will dictate how much you will make.

[ecuadorlivin]

eh maybe two tiers wasn't the right way to state it, but the idea that a lot of jobs are in a 40-60k range and then a bunch in the 160-170k range. I know there are jobs in between, but the two big spikes on the graph are in those two spots. The lower range would be for things like ADA, clerks, etc., which are great jobs for gaining experience, and the higher is Big Law.

[bk1]

eh maybe two tiers wasn't the right way to state it, but the idea that a lot of jobs are in a 40-60k range and then a bunch in the 160-170k range. I know there are jobs in between, but the two big spikes on the graph are in those two spots. The lower range would be for things like ADA, clerks, etc., which are great jobs for gaining experience, and the higher is Big Law.

Fordham does place more people in the higher mode, but Aberzombie is right in that market rate in NOLA probably isn't 160k (like it is in NYC) and is more like 120k-ish (just speculating).

That being said, you should be skeptical of the data put out by the schools themselves as it is fudged to seem better than reality. Take a look here (--LinkRemoved--) to see the data picked apart and explained in a meaningful way, but also realize that the data on LST is from 2009 and things are much worse now.

[ecuadorlivin]

That being said, you should be skeptical of the data put out by the schools themselves as it is fudged to seem better than reality. Take a look here (--LinkRemoved--) to see the data picked apart and explained in a meaningful way, but also realize that the data on LST is from 2009 and things are much worse now.

according to LST, the 25%/median/75% salaries for Tulane are 55k/85k/145k and for Fordham 145k/160k/160k. As you said they are lower now, but just as a matter of comparison, that doesn't matter much. It does I guess affect my contention that higher earning from fordham would offset some of the extra cost.

To anyone who has responded or others, what about with regard to international law? Does anybody happen to know much about reputation in that field or earning potential or anything like that? Thanks a lot!

[bk1]

according to LST, the 25%/median/75% salaries for Tulane are 55k/85k/145k and for Fordham 145k/160k/160k. As you said they are lower now, but just as a matter of comparison, that doesn't matter much. It does I guess affect my contention that higher earning from fordham would offset some of the extra cost.

To anyone who has responded or others, what about with regard to international law? Does anybody happen to know much about reputation in that field or earning potential or anything like that? Thanks a lot!

Those percentile salary figures only apply to the percentage of students who actually reported their salary information. So at Fordham, all you really know is that about 50% of their class made 145k+ and you have to keep in mind this is the class of 2009 which did OCI in 2007 (before the economic crash) and thus things are very different today. Another thing to note is that a full 25% of Fordham students didn't even get full time jobs as lawyers. Granted, Fordham has more desirable outcomes than Tulane if you want higher salary and even a better chance at being a lawyer and that has to do with the fact that it is in NYC where there a lot more legal jobs compared to other places such as NOLA. All that being said, paying sticker at Fordham is absurdly risky considering that only about 1/4-1/3 of their students get these 6 figure salaries and you would absolutely need a 6 figure salary to pay off sticker price debt at Fordham. Since you have a greater than 50% chance of that not happening it does not make sense to pay sticker and thus you should go to Tulane because it is far cheaper.

As for international law, read this: http://www.annaivey.com/iveyfiles/2008/ ... e_the_hype

[monarchylover]

according to LST, the 25%/median/75% salaries for Tulane are 55k/85k/145k and for Fordham 145k/160k/160k. As you said they are lower now, but just as a matter of comparison, that doesn't matter much. It does I guess affect my contention that higher earning from fordham would offset some of the extra cost.

To anyone who has responded or others, what about with regard to international law? Does anybody happen to know much about reputation in that field or earning potential or anything like that? Thanks a lot!

Those percentile salary figures only apply to the percentage of students who actually reported their salary information. So at Fordham, all you really know is that about 50% of their class made 145k+ and you have to keep in mind this is the class of 2009 which did OCI in 2007 (before the economic crash) and thus things are very different today. Another thing to note is that a full 25% of Fordham students didn't even get full time jobs as lawyers. Granted, Fordham has more desirable outcomes than Tulane if you want higher salary and even a better chance at being a lawyer and that has to do with the fact that it is in NYC where there a lot more legal jobs compared to other places such as NOLA. All that being said, paying sticker at Fordham is absurdly risky considering that only about 1/4-1/3 of their students get these 6 figure salaries and you would absolutely need a 6 figure salary to pay off sticker price debt at Fordham. Since you have a greater than 50% chance of that not happening it does not make sense to pay sticker and thus you should go to Tulane because it is far cheaper.

As for international law, read this: http://www.annaivey.com/iveyfiles/2008/ ... e_the_hype

This makes no sense. 318 of the 470 graduates are represented by the quartiles which are all at least greater than or equal to 145k so how does 1/4-1/3 of the class only make 6 figures?

[Headybrah]

wouldnt be so confident in getting to NYC from Tulane. Probably only top 10% have a realistic shot at NYC biglaw from tulane.

[NYCbound35]

NOn top of that, Tulane is the one non-T14 school not located in the east/northeast that provides decent access to NY Biglaw. Vandy is essentially T14 and is located essentially in the east/southeast, and Texas, UCLA, USC, and N.D. don't sent a ton of grads to NY. Tulane also has better access to markets like Dallas, Houston and Los Angeles.

This is just stupid. If you are planning on working in NY or LA, you should not go to Tulane. If you are willing to live in New Orleans or one of the Gulf area legal markets, Tulane is fine.

[ndirish2010]

according to LST, the 25%/median/75% salaries for Tulane are 55k/85k/145k and for Fordham 145k/160k/160k. As you said they are lower now, but just as a matter of comparison, that doesn't matter much. It does I guess affect my contention that higher earning from fordham would offset some of the extra cost.

To anyone who has responded or others, what about with regard to international law? Does anybody happen to know much about reputation in that field or earning potential or anything like that? Thanks a lot!

Those percentile salary figures only apply to the percentage of students who actually reported their salary information. So at Fordham, all you really know is that about 50% of their class made 145k+ and you have to keep in mind this is the class of 2009 which did OCI in 2007 (before the economic crash) and thus things are very different today. Another thing to note is that a full 25% of Fordham students didn't even get full time jobs as lawyers. Granted, Fordham has more desirable outcomes than Tulane if you want higher salary and even a better chance at being a lawyer and that has to do with the fact that it is in NYC where there a lot more legal jobs compared to other places such as NOLA. All that being said, paying sticker at Fordham is absurdly risky considering that only about 1/4-1/3 of their students get these 6 figure salaries and you would absolutely need a 6 figure salary to pay off sticker price debt at Fordham. Since you have a greater than 50% chance of that not happening it does not make sense to pay sticker and thus you should go to Tulane because it is far cheaper.

As for international law, read this: http://www.annaivey.com/iveyfiles/2008/ ... e_the_hype

This makes no sense. 318 of the 470 graduates are represented by the quartiles which are all at least greater than or equal to 145k so how does 1/4-1/3 of the class only make 6 figures?

The quartiles represent private sector salaries only.

[monarchylover]

according to LST, the 25%/median/75% salaries for Tulane are 55k/85k/145k and for Fordham 145k/160k/160k. As you said they are lower now, but just as a matter of comparison, that doesn't matter much. It does I guess affect my contention that higher earning from fordham would offset some of the extra cost.

To anyone who has responded or others, what about with regard to international law? Does anybody happen to know much about reputation in that field or earning potential or anything like that? Thanks a lot!

Those percentile salary figures only apply to the percentage of students who actually reported their salary information. So at Fordham, all you really know is that about 50% of their class made 145k+ and you have to keep in mind this is the class of 2009 which did OCI in 2007 (before the economic crash) and thus things are very different today. Another thing to note is that a full 25% of Fordham students didn't even get full time jobs as lawyers. Granted, Fordham has more desirable outcomes than Tulane if you want higher salary and even a better chance at being a lawyer and that has to do with the fact that it is in NYC where there a lot more legal jobs compared to other places such as NOLA. All that being said, paying sticker at Fordham is absurdly risky considering that only about 1/4-1/3 of their students get these 6 figure salaries and you would absolutely need a 6 figure salary to pay off sticker price debt at Fordham. Since you have a greater than 50% chance of that not happening it does not make sense to pay sticker and thus you should go to Tulane because it is far cheaper.

As for international law, read this: http://www.annaivey.com/iveyfiles/2008/ ... e_the_hype

This makes no sense. 318 of the 470 graduates are represented by the quartiles which are all at least greater than or equal to 145k so how does 1/4-1/3 of the class only make 6 figures?

The quartiles represent private sector salaries only.

and 318 of the 470 graduates reported the private sector salaries... what is your point?

[CanadianWolf]

OP: Why do you think that a native Spanish speaking person is more marketable in New Orleans than in New York City ?

[ecuadorlivin]

@canadianwolf, I don't really know. I don't know much about the demand. (tho ive heard the economy has hit teachers hard in nyc, whereas in nola things are generally A BIT better because katrina reduced the population a lot and wages have risen to attract teachers back to nola). i was thinking only about one side of the equation, which is supply and something like 27% of nyc population is latino and there 100s of thousands of native spanish speakers in nyc. my fiancee doesnt have any degrees or work experience in the US and also has very little work experience in general. The only thing she has that is marketable is that she is a native spanish speaker and I just feel in NYC, theres so many native spanish speakers everywhere, that employers would be like ok, what else? whereas in nola the fact that shes a native speaker might be enough to get her a job somewhere that most teachers are americans who majored in spansih in college and so shed have a leg up. these are all just sort of logical extrapolations from a small amount of actual information. if you happen to know about this subject, i would absolutely like to hear more.

[bk1]

and 318 of the 470 graduates reported the private sector salaries... what is your point?

About 50% of Fordham's class of 2009 got 6 figure jobs (source: --LinkRemoved--). Those kids did OCI in 2007 (prior to the crash). I really don't think it is that unreasonable ITE (especially with the anecdotes on TLS that people have put forth i/r/t Fordham/BC/BU and other strong regional schools) that biglaw placement is closer to 1/3 at best.

[ndirish2010]

and 318 of the 470 graduates reported the private sector salaries... what is your point?

About 50% of Fordham's class of 2009 got 6 figure jobs (source: --LinkRemoved--). Those kids did OCI in 2007 (prior to the crash). I really don't think it is that unreasonable ITE (especially with the anecdotes on TLS that people have put forth i/r/t Fordham/BC/BU and other strong regional schools) that biglaw placement is closer to 1/3 at best.

However, with the strong NYC rebound Fordham's C/O 2012 and 2013 numbers might look a lot better than other strong regionals.

[bk1]

However, with the strong NYC rebound Fordham's C/O 2012 and 2013 numbers might look a lot better than other strong regionals.

Well I have no doubt that they will look better (they always have and likely always will as long as NYC dominates). I was using BU/BC as more of the barometer since they have often been fairly close to Fordham. I was also estimating based on Fordham's position relative to the T14 and how badly places like GULC have been doing as well.

[ndirish2010]

However, with the strong NYC rebound Fordham's C/O 2012 and 2013 numbers might look a lot better than other strong regionals.

Well I have no doubt that they will look better (they always have and likely always will as long as NYC dominates). I was using BU/BC as more of the barometer since they have often been fairly close to Fordham. I was also estimating based on Fordham's position relative to the T14 and how badly places like GULC have been doing as well.

Yeah I mean, I would expect that by the time 2012 numbers are out, the gap between BC/BU and Fordham will be closed. Somewhere around 30% is a decent estimate for Fordham 2013.