Help: Cornell or IU-B Forum

[cornell or IUB]

Cornell:
I just got in off the waitlist. I have no scholarship indicated and unfortunately I don't really expect one.

IU-B:
I got accepted to IU-B with full scholarship, no stipulations, guaranteed to cover the costs regardless of tuition increases. I am committed to IU-B right now.

Before today I can definitely say IU-B was my best offer. I was attracted to it because it would leave me with very little debt after graduation (cost of living is ridiculously cheap in Bloomington). I am risk averse, but after talking to some people I know that graduated from T14 schools, I see these schools offer great opportunities. Also, I did enjoy IU-B when I visited and have not visited Cornell (I can't imagine this factor alone would change my decision though).

Background:
I'm from New Jersey and did my undergrad in the midwest. I also would not mind living in the midwest after graduation or for the rest of my life.
Career goals:
Not certain. I'm not set on biglaw. I have talked to a few people that clerked and it seems clerking is a great opportunity. I realize that getting a clerkship is very difficult. To sum it up, I guess I want to keep my opportunities open, I am just concerned by the amount of debt Cornell would require.

Finally, I have roughly 17K in saving. I don't think that makes much of a difference but I figured I might as well put it out there.

Which would you choose? I really appreciate any help and opinion anyone can give.

[splitmuch]

Cornell:
I just got in off the waitlist. I have no scholarship indicated and unfortunately I don't really expect one.

IU-B:
I got accepted to IU-B with full scholarship, no stipulations, guaranteed to cover the costs regardless of tuition increases. I am committed to IU-B right now.

Before today I can definitely say IU-B was my best offer. I was attracted to it because it would leave me with very little debt after graduation (cost of living is ridiculously cheap in Bloomington). I am risk averse, but after talking to some people I know that graduated from T14 schools, I see these schools offer great opportunities. Also, I did enjoy IU-B when I visited and have not visited Cornell (I can't imagine this factor alone would change my decision though).

Background:
I'm from New Jersey and did my undergrad in the midwest. I also would not mind living in the midwest after graduation or for the rest of my life.
Career goals:
Not certain. I'm not set on biglaw. I have talked to a few people that clerked and it seems clerking is a great opportunity. I realize that getting a clerkship is very difficult. To sum it up, I guess I want to keep my opportunities open, I am just concerned by the amount of debt Cornell would require.

Finally, I have roughly 17K in saving. I don't think that makes much of a difference but I figured I might as well put it out there.

Which would you choose? I really appreciate any help and opinion anyone can give.

If youre not sure you want to do biglaw, the answer is IUB. 220k is a lot of debt.

[CanadianWolf]

Not even a close decision based on the info. shared in your post.

[Noval]

Cornell = You'll get a job easier than IU-B, + decent shot at BigLaw.
IU-B = No jobs at all, and i don't give a fuck how good this disaster mill is regionally, we're talking about the Legal Market here, not about Pharmacy jobs, so let's keep being realistic and avoid the bullshit excuses such as "I got a friend who makes 900k/year out of IU-B".

[pacers3177]

Cornell = You'll get a job easier than IU-B, + decent shot at BigLaw.
IU-B = No jobs at all, and i don't give a fuck how good this disaster mill is regionally, we're talking about the Legal Market here, not about Pharmacy jobs, so let's keep being realistic and avoid the bullshit excuses such as "I got a friend who makes 900k/year out of IU-B".

You're stupid

[mrwarre85]

I also would not mind living in the midwest after graduation or for the rest of my life.
Career goals: Not certain. I'm not set on biglaw. I have talked to a few people that clerked and it seems clerking is a great opportunity. I realize that getting a clerkship is very difficult. To sum it up, I guess I want to keep my opportunities open, I am just concerned by the amount of debt Cornell would require.

Definitely take the full ride. You seem to like the mid-west and you have a full ride at a great mid-western school. Congratulations.

[YourCaptain]

Cornell = You'll get a job easier than IU-B, + decent shot at BigLaw.
IU-B = No jobs at all, and i don't give a fuck how good this disaster mill is regionally, we're talking about the Legal Market here, not about Pharmacy jobs, so let's keep being realistic and avoid the bullshit excuses such as "I got a friend who makes 900k/year out of IU-B".

You're stupid

IUB has less-than-desirable placement for its rank.

[Grizz]

I don't know whats up with your cycle, but you should have better options with money than IU-B. IU-B places deceptively less well than their ranking would suggest.

[YourCaptain]

I don't know whats up with your cycle, but you should have better options with money than IU-B. IU-B places deceptively less well than their ranking would suggest.

I was trying to be polite too but I'll just say it: IUB has very poor placement.

I personally turned down the $120k scholarship last year; the school places like Gonzaga.

[splitmuch]

I don't know whats up with your cycle, but you should have better options with money than IU-B. IU-B places deceptively less well than their ranking would suggest.

I was trying to be polite too but I'll just say it: IUB has very poor placement.

I personally turned down the $120k scholarship last year; the school places like Gonzaga.

But he doesn't want big law. 220k is alot of money to be in debt. If he goes to Cornell he's essentially forced to do PI with LRAP (although I don't know how good Cornell's LRAP is) or essentially middlaw saddled by loan payments for 25 years

[YourCaptain]

I don't know whats up with your cycle, but you should have better options with money than IU-B. IU-B places deceptively less well than their ranking would suggest.

I was trying to be polite too but I'll just say it: IUB has very poor placement.

I personally turned down the $120k scholarship last year; the school places like Gonzaga.

But he doesn't want big law. 220k is alot of money to be in debt. If he goes to Cornell he's essentially forced to do PI with LRAP (although I don't know how good Cornell's LRAP is) or essentially middlaw saddled by loan payments for 25 years

Well, it's either biglaw from Cornell or nothing from IUB. IUB has very poor placement in general.

[CanadianWolf]

Also, it's either big debt from Cornell or nothing from Indiana. Since OP likes the Midwest, IUB seems to be the better choice.

[fingersxd]

OP, what happened with your cycle -- no other offers b/t Cornell and IU-B?

Tough call here. Cornell's placement (for anything, anywhere) is light years ahead of IU-B. That said, if you don't want biglaw, the Cornell cache may just not be worth the 220k (+interest) you would take on. I think IU-B could still get you something in the midwest (assuming you do well), and if nothing else, at least you'll come out with very little in the way of debt.

Being very debt averse, I would lean a bit towards IU-B here....but just barely and I certainly wouldn't think you were crazy for choosing Cornell.

[Noval]

Cornell = You'll get a job easier than IU-B, + decent shot at BigLaw.
IU-B = No jobs at all, and i don't give a fuck how good this disaster mill is regionally, we're talking about the Legal Market here, not about Pharmacy jobs, so let's keep being realistic and avoid the bullshit excuses such as "I got a friend who makes 900k/year out of IU-B".

You're stupid

At least i'm not the smacktard who ASSUMES IU-B will get me a job solely based on it's rank.

But okay, don't follow my advice, go to IU-B and enjoy shitlaw in the middle of no where for the rest of your desperate life.

[Corwin]

If you can't commit to biglaw you can't go Cornell at sticker. On the other hand, IUB does have some difficultly placing people as others have pointed out. Not an easy decision at all, might want to hold out for another cycle.

[pacers3177]

Cornell = You'll get a job easier than IU-B, + decent shot at BigLaw.
IU-B = No jobs at all, and i don't give a fuck how good this disaster mill is regionally, we're talking about the Legal Market here, not about Pharmacy jobs, so let's keep being realistic and avoid the bullshit excuses such as "I got a friend who makes 900k/year out of IU-B".

You're stupid

At least i'm not the smacktard who ASSUMES IU-B will get me a job solely based on it's rank.

But okay, don't follow my advice, go to IU-B and enjoy shitlaw in the middle of no where for the rest of your desperate life.

No you're a "smacktard" who assumes other people assume that. Still stupid.

If the OP likes the midwest, wants to avoid debt, and doesnt care about Biglaw, then how is IU a bad choice? Because its job prospects are bad for a job he doesnt even want?

But OP, if you want to work to in Indy, IU-Indy may be a better choice than IUB.

[Aberzombie1892]

I don't know whats up with your cycle, but you should have better options with money than IU-B. IU-B places deceptively less well than their ranking would suggest.

I was trying to be polite too but I'll just say it: IUB has very poor placement.

I personally turned down the $120k scholarship last year; the school places like Gonzaga.

But he doesn't want big law. 220k is alot of money to be in debt. If he goes to Cornell he's essentially forced to do PI with LRAP (although I don't know how good Cornell's LRAP is) or essentially middlaw saddled by loan payments for 25 years

But see... IUB still neither the best school in its state nor in the major metropolitan area of the state. That is important to consider when you think about non-big law employment prospects.

I would recommend every school in the T50 aside from Florida State and George Mason over IUB. There are also several schools in the T50-T00 that are better than IUB as well.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

If IU-B is as bas as everyone says it is, maybe sit out a cycle. I don't know the employment numbers posted for IU-B in 2009 were super when you consider going there for free.

If you take Cornell you have to gun for biglaw. I'm not sure what percentage of Cornell gets biglaw but I know it isn't a sure thing. If you don't get it, that 220k will be 450k when you pay it off in 25 years. Actually you may never pay it off (most Americans wouldn't).

[Corwin]

If IU-B is as bas as everyone says it is, maybe sit out a cycle. I don't know the employment numbers posted for IU-B in 2009 were super when you consider going there for free.

If you take Cornell you have to gun for biglaw. I'm not sure what percentage of Cornell gets biglaw but I know it isn't a sure thing. If you don't get it, that 220k will be 450k when you pay it off in 25 years. Actually you may never pay it off (most Americans wouldn't).

Getting top 40-50% isn't exactly gunning. Yeah you need to work hard, but we're not talking about top 25% or something like that.

[Devila_C]

Cornell offers a much better network for getting any type of job after you graduate. Sure you will be in debt, but many ppl that go to Cornell take on loans and the school's LRAP will help, assuming you don't go into big law. You should look at the hard facts (Cornell's LRAP, job placement v. IU-B), instead of asking strangers on TLS who have no clue just like you.

If you're thinking of a clerkship, a Cornell JD on your resume will certainly be weightier. Unfortunately the legal profession is all about the name and the network you build through your law school.

But remember, you still have to do well at Cornell, versus at IU-B you may have to be at the top of your class to get whatever job at graduation.

[Noval]

Cornell = You'll get a job easier than IU-B, + decent shot at BigLaw.
IU-B = No jobs at all, and i don't give a fuck how good this disaster mill is regionally, we're talking about the Legal Market here, not about Pharmacy jobs, so let's keep being realistic and avoid the bullshit excuses such as "I got a friend who makes 900k/year out of IU-B".

You're stupid

At least i'm not the smacktard who ASSUMES IU-B will get me a job solely based on it's rank.

But okay, don't follow my advice, go to IU-B and enjoy shitlaw in the middle of no where for the rest of your desperate life.

No you're a "smacktard" who assumes other people assume that. Still stupid.

If the OP likes the midwest, wants to avoid debt, and doesnt care about Biglaw, then how is IU a bad choice? Because its job prospects are bad for a job he doesnt even want?

But OP, if you want to work to in Indy, IU-Indy may be a better choice than IUB.

What kind of retarded logic is this ?

You think that just because he doesn't aim BigLaw, he will be safe in a market where the number of graduates is 3 times the number of jobs available ?

IU-B doesn't place for shit even outside of BigLaw, only the kids who have killer connections or Top-20% get decent jobs from that school.


I'm speaking for the good of OP, if he doesn't want to ruin his life over a useless JD then he should avoid IU-B.

[pacers3177]

At least i'm not the smacktard who ASSUMES IU-B will get me a job solely based on it's rank.

But okay, don't follow my advice, go to IU-B and enjoy shitlaw in the middle of no where for the rest of your desperate life.

No you're a "smacktard" who assumes other people assume that. Still stupid.

If the OP likes the midwest, wants to avoid debt, and doesnt care about Biglaw, then how is IU a bad choice? Because its job prospects are bad for a job he doesnt even want?

But OP, if you want to work to in Indy, IU-Indy may be a better choice than IUB.

What kind of retarded logic is this ?

You think that just because he doesn't aim BigLaw, he will be safe in a market where the number of graduates is 3 times the number of jobs available ?

IU-B doesn't place for shit even outside of BigLaw, only the kids who have killer connections or Top-20% get decent jobs from that school.


I'm speaking for the good of OP, if he doesn't want to ruin his life over a useless JD then he should avoid IU-B.

IUB is a very respected law school in its region. The problem the school gets when schmohawks like you judge it is that people look at IUB as a school whose t25 ranking will potentially place them virtually anywhere, like a lot of the other schools ranked near it. More than half the school's grads try to work outside of the state, not due to a lack of jobs in Indiana (compared to the lack of jobs nationally in the legal market), but because kids come from all over and then bounce after graduation. Thats why the school is trying to attract the better instate applicants by offering full tuition to any instate applicant with a 165+ LSAT. Thats also why Indy firms are looking at IU-Indy grads moreso than IUB grads right now, because IUB is getting a reputation for creating graduates who leave the state after a year or two of work experience.That doesn't mean however that an IUB grad can't get a solid job in Indiana if they make it apparent that they want to remain in the region. If anything, IUB will still be frontrunners for those jobs instate.

As a recent IU grad who knows lawyers both in Bloomington and Indy who graduated from Maurer, I'm calling your bluff.

[Noval]

At least i'm not the smacktard who ASSUMES IU-B will get me a job solely based on it's rank.

But okay, don't follow my advice, go to IU-B and enjoy shitlaw in the middle of no where for the rest of your desperate life.

No you're a "smacktard" who assumes other people assume that. Still stupid.

If the OP likes the midwest, wants to avoid debt, and doesnt care about Biglaw, then how is IU a bad choice? Because its job prospects are bad for a job he doesnt even want?

But OP, if you want to work to in Indy, IU-Indy may be a better choice than IUB.

What kind of retarded logic is this ?

You think that just because he doesn't aim BigLaw, he will be safe in a market where the number of graduates is 3 times the number of jobs available ?

IU-B doesn't place for shit even outside of BigLaw, only the kids who have killer connections or Top-20% get decent jobs from that school.


I'm speaking for the good of OP, if he doesn't want to ruin his life over a useless JD then he should avoid IU-B.

IUB is a very respected law school in its region. The problem the school gets when schmohawks like you judge it is that people look at IUB as a school whose t25 ranking will potentially place them virtually anywhere, like a lot of the other schools ranked near it. More than half the school's grads try to work outside of the state, not due to a lack of jobs in Indiana (compared to the lack of jobs nationally in the legal market), but because kids come from all over and then bounce after graduation. Thats why the school is trying to attract the better instate applicants by offering full tuition to any instate applicant with a 165+ LSAT. Thats also why Indy firms are looking at IU-Indy grads moreso than IUB grads right now, because IUB is getting a reputation for creating graduates who leave the state after a year or two of work experience.That doesn't mean however that an IUB grad can't get a solid job in Indiana if they make it apparent that they want to remain in the region. If anything, IUB will still be frontrunners for those jobs instate.

As a recent IU grad who knows lawyers both in Bloomington and Indy who graduated from Maurer, I'm calling your bluff.

Then this suits you more than anything else, congratulations:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M98x-FLp7E

[pacers3177]

Then this suits you more than anything else, congratulations:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M98x-FLp7E

How long have you been waiting to pull that one out of your ass?

[columbia86]

Please do not attend IU-B, you will regret it for the rest of your life. You cannot turn down Cornel for a regional school with horrible job prospects and that has no major legal market.