Cornell vs. Gtown for Southern California Forum

[FlanAl]

Right so I did one of these with vandy v. gtown and picked gtown. Now I'm hoping you guys can all give me a little guidance on which would be better for California--Cornell or Georgetown? Both are basically at sticker so yeah any advice would be very much appreciated. (and for those who noticed previous posts, still no word from UCLA)

[drs36]

USC?

[vanwinkle]

CA ties?

If yes: Look into whether more CA firms visit one or the other. Otherwise, just go to the one you'd prefer to attend more. There won't be a substantial difference in how deep in the class CA firms would go at either school, so (unless there's a severe difference in OCI attendance, making interviewing easier on you) you may as well choose whichever you'd prefer to attend/whichever city you'd prefer to live in.

If no: Abandon all hope, all ye who enter the CA job market.

[DaftAndDirect]

USC?

I drive by Gould everyday on my way to work. No love for USC?

[Stringer Bell]

33 CA firms did OCI at Cornell and 104 were at GULC. I'd guess gtown is better.

[de5igual]

33 CA firms did OCI at Cornell and 104 were at GULC. I'd guess gtown is better.

yeah, but class size at Cornell is ~200 while GULC is at ~600+

it ends up being more or less a wash, but I guess GULC, because of its size, would have the much larger alumni footprint

[glewz]

For the past four years, Cornell had better NLJ 250 firm hiring %s.

[Kabuo]

For the past four years, Cornell had better NLJ 250 firm hiring %s.

Largely boosted by NYC. I voted GULC, but I'm pretty biased as I'd like your spot at Cornell.

[FlanAl]

USC?

rejected by usc

[FlanAl]

Some more info about me:

- Strong CA ties (Grandma went to the same high school I did, family is here, gf is from here etc.)
- Still on UCLA's waitlist
- Main goal is SD biglaw (haha might as well go unicorn hunting)
- My girlfriend will be moving to NYC next year so being kinda close would be nice
- I like the idea of small class size for job getting (basically the only thing that matters) but I'd kinda like the idea of a large class

AND some questions:

- Anyone have any idea how much cheaper it is to live in Ithaca compared to DC?
- Any idea on which one makes it easier to travel to NYC while in school?
- Does Cornell basically beat Gtown in the NYC market because of small class size?

[CanadianWolf]

Easier to travel from Wash DC to LA.

Base decision on number of California firms that interview at each school. Georgetown is the nation's largest law school, while Cornell is two thirds smaller at 622 law students, therefore, it would be more economical for Southern California firms to interview at GULC.

P.S. Any idea why Cornell is having so much difficulty filling their class this year ? It's perplexing because Cornell is a fairly small law school, top 14 & was #2 in NLJ250 law placement last year. Is it the location ? Rep for intense competition & workload ?

[Bildungsroman]

P.S. Any idea why Cornell is having so much difficulty filling their class this year ? It's perplexing because Cornell is a fairly small law school, top 14 & was #2 in NLJ250 law placement last year. Is it the location ? Rep for intense competition & workload ?

What have you seen that shows Cornell having trouble filling its class?

[CanadianWolf]

Class still unfilled as of June, 2011 according to those who contacted Cornell Law admissions. Also multiple acceptances to Cornell today & yeaterday.

[FlanAl]

i don't know if there having trouble so much as going slow. I was on reserve until admitted yesterday and there are quite a few other people either reserved or waitlisted.

[mrwarre85]

Class still unfilled as of June, 2011 according to those who contacted Cornell Law admissions. Also multiple acceptances to Cornell today & yeaterday.

I think they over enrolled last year and are being really careful.

[mrwarre85]

I think GTown here solely because they are a larger school and thus must?? have more alumni in Cali???

Best I can do.

[fingersxd]

Some more info about me:

- Strong CA ties (Grandma went to the same high school I did, family is here, gf is from here etc.)
- Still on UCLA's waitlist
- Main goal is SD biglaw (haha might as well go unicorn hunting)
- My girlfriend will be moving to NYC next year so being kinda close would be nice
- I like the idea of small class size for job getting (basically the only thing that matters) but I'd kinda like the idea of a large class

AND some questions:

- Anyone have any idea how much cheaper it is to live in Ithaca compared to DC?
- Any idea on which one makes it easier to travel to NYC while in school?
- Does Cornell basically beat Gtown in the NYC market because of small class size?

-Ithaca is MUCH cheaper than DC.
-DC to NYC is an easier commute (can you say Chinatown bus? haha)
-I suspect the total # of GTgrads in NYC is comparable to Cornell due to class size, but Cornell places a higher percentage for that same reason.

I would also suggest that much of it is self-selection. Cornell pushes biglaw hard and NYC is the #1 target for 90%+ of the class. DC is usually the top target (or at least equal to NYC) for GT students and IMO (and anecdotally as well), GT has a larger % of its students go into gov't/PI etc.

Long story short, I think GT is the better choice here, but they are comparable enough that you should visti both and see where you would be happier spending 3 years.

[bogart]

Since when the fuck does a 6 hour bus ride beat a 3 hour car ride?

Anyway, the above poster is correct in that Ithaca is cheaper than DC. However, New York taxes are brutal so all things considered its not that big of a difference.

[FlanAl]

thought that I should add that I would definitely rather work NYC biglaw than DC biglaw if California does not work out. Not sure how that changes things but I think that it might. Thank again for all the advice!

[fingersxd]

Since when the fuck does a 6 hour bus ride beat a 3 hour car ride?

Anyway, the above poster is correct in that Ithaca is cheaper than DC. However, New York taxes are brutal so all things considered its not that big of a difference.

NYC-->DC is in no way a 6hr bus ride. I've made that trip dozens of times and I'm not sure I recall it taking longer than 4.5hrs more than once or twice when it was just insane peak hour traffic (if you avoid that you can do it in under 4).

And Ithaca to NYC in 3hrs? Maybe this is possible w/out a single other car on the road, but in terms of convenience you then have to deal with parking, etc. Plus, it's just so much damn cheaper to take a $20RT bus then to DC then to drive to Ithaca.

Out of curiosity, I know NYC taxes suck. Are the state taxes horrible too? And which ones (income, local, sales)? And are they really that much worse than DC?

[fingersxd]

thought that I should add that I would definitely rather work NYC biglaw than DC biglaw if California does not work out. Not sure how that changes things but I think that it might. Thank again for all the advice!

I think this favors Cornell....BUT, the schools are comparable enough that I honestly think you need to see each and determine if it's somewhere you could be happy spending 3 yrs. Some people LOVE Ithaca and others don't (I turned them down for undergrad b/c I just didn't want to be there for 4 yrs). DC is in the same situation -- love it or hate it. Only you can make that choice.

[bk1]

CA ties?

If yes: Look into whether more CA firms visit one or the other. Otherwise, just go to the one you'd prefer to attend more. There won't be a substantial difference in how deep in the class CA firms would go at either school, so (unless there's a severe difference in OCI attendance, making interviewing easier on you) you may as well choose whichever you'd prefer to attend/whichever city you'd prefer to live in.

I could be wrong, but I heard from someone who went to one of these schools that GULC/Cornell do a joint west coast job fair and that is where most of them try and get CA jobs.

If no: Abandon all hope, all ye who enter the CA job market.

This is true even if you have CA ties.

[bk1]

@OP: I think Cornell is probably the best bet. My logic is that these schools seem pretty comparable for getting CA and that there isn't a substantial difference between the two. Since you are gunning for biglaw, publicinterest/gov work really isn't a backup plan where you can just rely on LRAP to cover you since those sorts of jobs (at least from what people have said on TLS) like to see some sort of commitment and it's going to be hard to demonstrate that if you have spent all your time gunning for biglaw and end up using it as a backup. Because of that, I feel like Cornell has the advantage of biglaw (in NYC) and since you're going to need biglaw to pay off your debts I would choose the school that has the advantage in biglaw (which I believe to be Cornell). Maybe Cornell and GULC are peers because of the number of GULC kids who target publicinterest/gov and so don't even compete for biglaw, but I'm not entirely convinced that that fully erases Cornell's biglaw advantage over GULC.

I would also suggest that much of it is self-selection. Cornell pushes biglaw hard and NYC is the #1 target for 90%+ of the class. DC is usually the top target (or at least equal to NYC) for GT students and IMO (and anecdotally as well), GT has a larger % of its students go into gov't/PI etc.

Long story short, I think GT is the better choice here, but they are comparable enough that you should visti both and see where you would be happier spending 3 years.

At least in 2005, more GULC kids went to NYC than went to DC.

[fingersxd]

@OP: I think Cornell is probably the best bet. My logic is that these schools seem pretty comparable for getting CA and that there isn't a substantial difference between the two. Since you are gunning for biglaw, publicinterest/gov work really isn't a backup plan where you can just rely on LRAP to cover you since those sorts of jobs (at least from what people have said on TLS) like to see some sort of commitment and it's going to be hard to demonstrate that if you have spent all your time gunning for biglaw and end up using it as a backup. Because of that, I feel like Cornell has the advantage of biglaw (in NYC) and since you're going to need biglaw to pay off your debts I would choose the school that has the advantage in biglaw (which I believe to be Cornell). Maybe Cornell and GULC are peers because of the number of GULC kids who target publicinterest/gov and so don't even compete for biglaw, but I'm not entirely convinced that that fully erases Cornell's biglaw advantage over GULC.

I would also suggest that much of it is self-selection. Cornell pushes biglaw hard and NYC is the #1 target for 90%+ of the class. DC is usually the top target (or at least equal to NYC) for GT students and IMO (and anecdotally as well), GT has a larger % of its students go into gov't/PI etc.

Long story short, I think GT is the better choice here, but they are comparable enough that you should visti both and see where you would be happier spending 3 years.

At least in 2005, more GULC kids went to NYC than went to DC.

2005 numbers aren't really useful. What about 2006-2010? And I wonder if that is just b/c NYC is a bigger legal market. There's not exactly enough room for 600 first-year associates in DC 'biglaw' so I could see many going to NYC as option 1(a)

[bk1]

2005 numbers aren't really useful. What about 2006-2010? And I wonder if that is just b/c NYC is a bigger legal market. There's not exactly enough room for 600 first-year associates in DC 'biglaw' so I could see many going to NYC as option 1(a)

Of course it is because NYC is a bigger legal market, but I don't see any reason why 2005 would be an atypical year. I do think it is pretty telling that GULC, the best school actually located in DC, is sending more kids to NYC than DC (mainly in the sense that bidding on NYC is a better idea than bidding on DC). Though, this really is tangential to the Cornell vs GULC argument.