Notre Dame, UIUC, Emory, WUSTL, top 40 state school Forum

[uzpakalis]

Transfer student in the top 25%. Currently at a 'decent' T2.

I want a firm job (no gov/pi). Big law (probably not possible)/mid-law $$$. I am 'ok' with the Midwest, but would prefer a warmer climate. I have also applied to UCLA, but I doubt I'll get in. I am debt adverse (currently have no debt), however, I realize that I'll have to pay to play so to speak.

Choose one and explain, thanks! If you need more information to make an accurate choice let me know.

[blurbz]

What's your current school? What are your goals?

[flcath]

Come on dude, you're not new here: we'd like more information than that.

In what region would you like to work, what are your short-term career goals, your long-term goals, and anything else you want that might differ from the norm around here?

General truth about these threads: whatever details you leave unspecified, we insert our own preferences as if they're yours.

[uzpakalis]

Come on dude, you're not new here: we'd like more information than that.

You're right, I added more info above.

[thexfactor]

Im not 100% sure you can get into ND. The other schools should be OK.

I think you should go to either WUSTL or ND. ND seems to have a better brand name than WUSTL. I think ND is better for the upper midwest Minn, Wisc, Mich and WUSTL is better for the lower midwest and the great plains states.

ND has been consistently ranked in the 20s for a very long time. Wustl's rise has been pretty recent. The last 10 years or so. Also having a class of 40 transfers is a double edged sword. It makes the transition a lot easier, but it makes the job search harder with more competition and I don't think a lot of the employers distinguish a TT school vs TTT school. I think ND only takes like 15 transfers.
However, WUSTL is trying its best. They just started a NY externship clinic and they already have one in DC. That should definitely help placement.

At this point, I think you should transfer. You will probably not get biglaw/midlaw from your current position of t25% at your 80th ranked school. Going to ND/WUSTL will give you a better chance at OCI since more firms come.

[Blindmelon]

I'd go with the T40ish school in your desired market, depending what that is. Seems like you want to be in CA from your "warmer climate" comment. Getting there from any of the other schools you listed would be a bumpy ride.

[uzpakalis]

I'd go with the T40ish school in your desired market, depending what that is. Seems like you want to be in CA from your "warmer climate" comment. Getting there from any of the other schools you listed would be a bumpy ride.

Not necessarily CA, but not opposed. However, I hear ND places pretty well in CA, no?

[Blindmelon]

I'd go with the T40ish school in your desired market, depending what that is. Seems like you want to be in CA from your "warmer climate" comment. Getting there from any of the other schools you listed would be a bumpy ride.

Not necessarily CA, but not opposed. However, I hear ND places pretty well in CA, no?

Nope, sorry. Its not impossible, but would be really tough. You'd be competing with a lot of peer schools in their home market (Davis, Hastings, USC) not to mention Berk, etc.

[uzpakalis]

I am obviously open to all feedback, but CA seems to be ND's second biggest market (at least for the class of 2010).

http://law.nd.edu/careers/employment-data/

[flcath]

I'm gonna troll for my school here.

The difference between T25-ish schools and bottom tier-1 schools is substantial. TLS will often lump them in as "neither reliably gets you Biglaw," but the truth is that a substantial portion of the former will. Is it enough to "rely on," as a 0L (which you're not)? No.

But roughly a third of ND does place into NLJ 250 + Art. III clerkships. It's undeniable. While that number may go up or down from year to year, it remains a non-trivial, albeit not-to-be-relied-upon, figure. And, as someone who has performed sufficiently for it, I gotta tell you: it isn't that hard.

As a transfer, you'd have a chance at getting a job right-away, at OCIs, at one of the T25s listed (I'll include Emory). The reason I say ND vice the others is that it historically places the widest geographically... to that end, you can either rely upon TLS users' opinions (some of which appear to be supported by nothing), or you can look at the statistics. Feel free to examine both (a) state-by-state breakdowns of where recent graduating classes have gone, and (b) attorney listings on the websites of firms in various markets you want to target.

Particularly if you're talking about California, ND will be the clear winner of the schools you've listed. And I gotta tell you, some truly unspectacular 3Ls found decent firm work in Cali.

[Blindmelon]

I'm gonna troll for my school here.

Particularly if you're talking about California, ND will be the clear winner of the schools you've listed. And I gotta tell you, some truly unspectacular 3Ls found decent firm work in Cali.

Troll away. Without knowing what the T40 state school is, your assertion is pretty silly. If the top 40 state school is UC Davis or Hastings and he wants to work in CA, ND would be the clear winner? Also, the state school is 40k cheaper which is not an insignificant amount of money. There are T40 schools which are just as good as T25 (or whatever ND is) so saving 40k by not listening to US News here might be the right choice.

[crossarmant]

I'm gonna troll for my school here.

Particularly if you're talking about California, ND will be the clear winner of the schools you've listed. And I gotta tell you, some truly unspectacular 3Ls found decent firm work in Cali.

Troll away. Without knowing what the T40 state school is, your assertion is pretty silly. If the top 40 state school is UC Davis or Hastings and he wants to work in CA, ND would be the clear winner? Also, the state school is 40k cheaper which is not an insignificant amount of money. There are T40 schools which are just as good as T25 (or whatever ND is) so saving 40k by not listening to US News here might be the right choice.

Agreed. A solid state school in the market you want to be in is a solid choice regardless. There is prestige and the like associated with the higher ranked privates, but if your intention is to do decent mid-sized firm work in a desired market, then the state school is a great idea. Just my 2 cents.

[andythefir]

But ND places better in a variety warm climates. California was decided by subsequent posters, there are other warm-weather markets where ND will place better than most state schools. I remember being surprised at how many grads go to Florida when I saw employment outcomes.

[flcath]

I'm gonna troll for my school here.

Particularly if you're talking about California, ND will be the clear winner of the schools you've listed. And I gotta tell you, some truly unspectacular 3Ls found decent firm work in Cali.

Troll away. Without knowing what the T40 state school is, your assertion is pretty silly. If the top 40 state school is UC Davis or Hastings and he wants to work in CA, ND would be the clear winner? Also, the state school is 40k cheaper which is not an insignificant amount of money. There are T40 schools which are just as good as T25 (or whatever ND is) so saving 40k by not listening to US News here might be the right choice.

I'm sorry, I meant that among the schools explicitly listed (ND, UIUC, WUSTL, and Emory), ND has the best success rate in Cali. The bolded is self-evident.

[dpk711]

among the schools explicitly listed (ND, UIUC, WUSTL, and Emory), ND has the best success rate in Cali. The bolded is self-evident.

This is true.