USC worth the price? Forum

[scammedhard]

Debt can be paid and jobs can be fought for

I think you are wrong on both issues. Too much debt can lead to a situation where it cannot be repaid, and the problem with students loans is that they are non-dischargeable. Also, there are very few jobs around at the moment, and a positive attitude is not going to change that.

The debt issue and employment prospects are not about being negative or positive, they are just facts.

[bisonpower27]

No, but it doesn't mean you can't do well. Statistically the odds are against this being a good investment. The odds are slightly better over the long term. In other words, you have a good chance of struggling for the first several years out of law school but being better off over the long run once you pay off or pay down you mountain of debt (this is true of most law school debt). You shouldn't depend on big law from USC so if you are not okay with being in a ton of debt and doing marginal work straight out of law school then don't go. You should also ask yourself what it would do to your relationship if your SO paid for your living expenses and you were not able to get a big law job? Would your SO break up with you because of the money/stress issues?

I apologize if this a repost but I don't know where my original response went.. I might sound naive to you (and not to get too personal) but my SO and I have been together for over 7 years and have experienced some life altering circumstances together. We're rock solid. She wants me to attend and is adamant that she is willing to do what it takes to help me pay down the debt. Without her help I wouldn't even consider attending at sticker price. But having her support makes it more feasible in my mind. That doesn't alleviate the fact that it is still a risky proposition.

[RedItalus10]

Debt can be paid and jobs can be fought for

I think you are wrong on both issues. Too much debt can lead to a situation where it cannot be repaid, and the problem with students loans is that they are non-dischargeable. Also, there are very few jobs around at the moment, and a positive attitude is not going to change that.

The debt issue and employment prospects are not about being negative or positive, they are just facts.

another fact is that you can defer federal loans with relative ease. But even before that I would just try to get involved in LRAP/IBR which is likely to save you from high debt.

I know the job market sucks, but that doesn't mean that we are all doomed. There are ways out.

and having some optimism wont hurt.

[shoeshine]

There are ways out.

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 0&t=155878

[RedItalus10]

There are ways out.

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 0&t=155878

haha

[071816]

There are ways out.

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 0&t=155878

haha

That's funny, I was just going to say that this is all moot anyway because the world is ending on Saturday.

[thelawyler]

I see some votes for yes. Can those people elaborate?

[071816]

If USC or UCLA aren't worth sticker for LA, then what is? T14? T10? HYS?

UCLA and USC place well in Los Angeles and Southern California in general. If that is where OP wants to be, I say go for it.

[shoeshine]

If USC or UCLA aren't worth sticker for LA, then what is? T14? T10? HYS?

UCLA and USC place well in Los Angeles and Southern California in general. If that is where OP wants to be, I say go for it.

Stanford

That's it.

[071816]

If USC or UCLA aren't worth sticker for LA, then what is? T14? T10? HYS?

UCLA and USC place well in Los Angeles and Southern California in general. If that is where OP wants to be, I say go for it.

Stanford

That's it.

I have to say that is pretty extreme. However, hearing that on this forum does not surprise me in the least.

[shoeshine]

If USC or UCLA aren't worth sticker for LA, then what is? T14? T10? HYS?

UCLA and USC place well in Los Angeles and Southern California in general. If that is where OP wants to be, I say go for it.

Stanford

That's it.

I have to say that is pretty extreme. However, hearing that on this forum does not surprise me in the least.

Maybe Berkeley - but even that is hard to swallow at sticker.

[bisonpower27]

Thanks everyone who has replied/voted so far..

[TheSquire]

Should we all go to part-time programs?

No, but wtf are you talking about?

Are you confused about the basic purpose of part-time programs? Or the blatant sarcasm?

[monarchylover]

meeeehhh you can never win if you don't roll the dice... People on this forum amaze me its like if you don't get money at T14 just don't go to law school.... Because we all know their are no successful attorneys who graduated outside the T14 and without scholarships.... What if the world never accepted risk would any fortune 500 company be around today? My grandfather always told me 2 things. The first one is easy always invest in real estate and the second being of course, without risk there is no reward.....

[071816]

So what are you leaning towards OP?

[shoeshine]

The first one is easy always invest in real estate and the second being of course, without risk there is no reward.....

I would be broke if I had taken your Grandfather's advice in 2006.

[monarchylover]

The first one is easy always invest in real estate and the second being of course, without risk there is no reward.....

I would be broke if I had taken your Grandfather's advice in 2006.

Yep should have put it in the stock market.......

[20160810]

Depends what your options are. I picked Davis (with $) over USC (sticker) and never looked back, so for me, the answer to this question was a firm NO. On the other hand, there's a damn good argument to be made that USC at sticker is better than a T2 (let's say Pepperdine or Loyola) with $$$.

[flexityflex86]

Well, it's free living. That's worth about 60k. If you had a 60k scholarship, this thread wouldn't be so opposed to USC.

USC at sticker is a better call than Loyola Marymount on a full ride if you want big law and/or a law job.

[flexityflex86]

Depends what your options are. I picked Davis (with $) over USC (sticker) and never looked back, so for me, the answer to this question was a firm NO. On the other hand, there's a damn good argument to be made that USC at sticker is better than a T2 (let's say Pepperdine or Loyola) with $$$.

what was the price difference?

davis COL = USC COL?

[jtemp320]

Worth sticker to me means betting on getting either biglaw (allowing you to repay your loans fairly quickly and potentially have good exit options) or LRAP qualifying with a good LRAP (and work that you would actually want to do). Looks like USC placed about 29% of its grads into the NLJ250. Another 4% of so get clerkships (some are non-prestigious but lets be generous and say that could lead to big pay afterwards). If your only goal is law school as an investment in making serious money then you are basically putting a 220k bet down with 33% odds of winning (actually the odds are totally unpredictable seeing as how you don't know how you'll do and some luck is involved). Even if you win that bet you may get laid off, hate your job so much you quit long before repaying your loans etc.

As a pure financial investment law school isn't what it was when the economy was better. I'd want at least 50% odds of getting biglaw or clerkship.

But ask yourself - are there other kinds of law you'd be seriously interested in that are LRAP eligible? Would you mind being poorly paid for a long time if the work was interesting? If yes, then take a look at SC's LRAP - will it cover you in a viable way? If you got a midlaw job with long hours and equal pay to what you might earn at an office job that dosen't require a law degree - could you handle that?

I don't think those are questions just you should ask yourself- I've been asking myself those questions a lot. No matter how high you go (outside maybe HYS) a complete strikeout is possible and terrifying. We are all taking a risk. Even those of us on full rides at T14s, (if your parents arent paying your way) you can easily rack up 75k of debt in living expenses and could strike out. Going to law school is an insanely expensive proposition.

But if you approach law school with seriousness, know you aren't in this just to make money but there are multiple kinds of legal work you'd like to do, think you will enjoy the actual process of learning and law school and are confident in yourself then maybe its worth it.

Is SC worth sticker if you had a full ride and no stips at Loyola - no. Is SC worth sticker if you have a dcently paying career track job now and are really just interested in Biglaw to make money - no. Is SC worth sticker if you have a burning desire to be a lawyer, its your best option, and you understand the risks and are determined to hustle everyway possible? Then yes, its a very good law school and you should be proud of getting in.

[bisonpower27]

So what are you leaning towards OP?

I'm leaning towards attending. I don't think I can dramatically improve my situation by reapplying. That being said, I'm still not sold on the idea. So we'll see.

Depends what your options are. I picked Davis (with $) over USC (sticker) and never looked back, so for me, the answer to this question was a firm NO. On the other hand, there's a damn good argument to be made that USC at sticker is better than a T2 (let's say Pepperdine or Loyola) with $$$.

Yeah I got into Davis, Loyola, Pepperdine and Hastings as well. Davis' location didn't appeal to me, SF COL is too high, and Loyola and Pepperdine's scholly stips were hideous. So USC is the best option for me. Tuition is just a beast.

Worth sticker to me means betting on getting either biglaw (allowing you to repay your loans fairly quickly and potentially have good exit options) or LRAP qualifying with a good LRAP (and work that you would actually want to do). Looks like USC placed about 29% of its grads into the NLJ250. Another 4% of so get clerkships (some are non-prestigious but lets be generous and say that could lead to big pay afterwards). If your only goal is law school as an investment in making serious money then you are basically putting a 220k bet down with 33% odds of winning (actually the odds are totally unpredictable seeing as how you don't know how you'll do and some luck is involved). Even if you win that bet you may get laid off, hate your job so much you quit long before repaying your loans etc.

As a pure financial investment law school isn't what it was when the economy was better. I'd want at least 50% odds of getting biglaw or clerkship.

But ask yourself - are there other kinds of law you'd be seriously interested in that are LRAP eligible? Would you mind being poorly paid for a long time if the work was interesting? If yes, then take a look at SC's LRAP - will it cover you in a viable way? If you got a midlaw job with long hours and equal pay to what you might earn at an office job that dosen't require a law degree - could you handle that?

I don't think those are questions just you should ask yourself- I've been asking myself those questions a lot. No matter how high you go (outside maybe HYS) a complete strikeout is possible and terrifying. We are all taking a risk. Even those of us on full rides at T14s, (if your parents arent paying your way) you can easily rack up 75k of debt in living expenses and could strike out. Going to law school is an insanely expensive proposition.

But if you approach law school with seriousness, know you aren't in this just to make money but there are multiple kinds of legal work you'd like to do, think you will enjoy the actual process of learning and law school and are confident in yourself then maybe its worth it.

Is SC worth sticker if you had a full ride and no stips at Loyola - no. Is SC worth sticker if you have a dcently paying career track job now and are really just interested in Biglaw to make money - no. Is SC worth sticker if you have a burning desire to be a lawyer, its your best option, and you understand the risks and are determined to hustle everyway possible? Then yes, its a very good law school and you should be proud of getting in.

Thanks for your input. I'm well aware that law school is not something you pursue in the sole interest of making money. I work at a law firm right now and have been getting a ton of advice from attorneys. I've done research on this using NALP and other employment figures as well as speaking with practicing attorneys on a frequent basis (both attorneys at my firm and family friends/mentors). I am well aware of the risks and the likelihood that I won't be making a lot of money out of law school. I'm also very open-minded to the type of law I want to practice. The firm I work has reaffirmed my interest in being an attorney and I'm thankful I had the opportunity to work in the legal world before taking on law school. It's not necessary but it's a pretty damn good experience.

[20160810]

Depends what your options are. I picked Davis (with $) over USC (sticker) and never looked back, so for me, the answer to this question was a firm NO. On the other hand, there's a damn good argument to be made that USC at sticker is better than a T2 (let's say Pepperdine or Loyola) with $$$.

what was the price difference?

davis COL = USC COL?

For me the COA differential was about $200,000. No brainer.

[tothePAIN]

I'm attending USC next year. Received 30k per year. Have some saving and a relative who will let me live with them in LA.

Total COA, ~75k, total debt ~ 35k.

In my opinion, USC is worth it at that point.

[bjsesq]

Should we all go to part-time programs?

No, but wtf are you talking about?

Are you confused about the basic purpose of part-time programs? Or the blatant sarcasm?

No, I just had no idea why part time programs were thrown into the conversation at all.