GW sticker vs Rutgers Camden $$$ Forum

[Prime12]

EDIT: ok ok, so I just got a phone call from Vandy. I got in from the waitlist . They also told me that they can consider me for need based aid, though I don't think it'll be any more than what GW is offering me (15k / yr).

So it's GW vs Vandy now. What's everyone's opinions on this? Vandy is obviously a higher ranked school with better reputation but I'm not sure how much actual difference there is. I'd like to stay in relatively close proximity to my family(NJ) if possible, but I'd still go if the difference is big enough.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I know there is a similar thread in the same page but I think my circumstances are different enough to warrant making a new one.

Anyways I somehow got off the GW waitlist. I'm on another waitlist (Michigan) and am currently commited at Rutgers Camden. Since we all know I'm not getting off a T14 waitlist, it basically boils down to GW vs Rutgers.

Rutgers is offering me half tuition so I have to pay around $10k / year. And that's it. I can commute from my parents' place (It's a Korean thing, don't ask) so there won't be any significant living expenses.

GW at sticker... I'll probably be around $210k in debt by the time I graduate. But then again, the degree will stay with me. Yes $200k in debt hurts but choosing a T2 over a near-T14 hurts too.


After 3 years I'd like to find myself practicing in Korea. Their legal services market just opened up to foreign law firms so there'll be at least some demand for multicultural attorneys (I'm a native Korean speaker and am also fluent in Japanese). I really don't know how rankings would play a role here but I do feel GW can get me better prepared for this.

What to do? Luckily I have until the 20th to decide. Let me know what you think.... any constructive input would be appreciated.
























By the way, here's my post-acceptance drama for your reading pleasure
[rant]
After getting the acceptance email yesterday, I thought I'd call my parents and let them know. It's not the T14 I was shooting for, but it's something, so I wanted to share the news. I also did let them know that I'm as likely to withdraw the offer since I'll be in huge debt if I take it. That went well, but little did I know that my parents would be calling their relatives left and right to tell them everything I just told them.

In the next four hours, I've been called.... some pretty nasty things for even daring to consider attending a 80-ish ranked school over a T20 . No none of them knew what kind of debt I'd be in if I took GW. Normally I'd just remind them that it's none of their business (and not in the most polite way either, I have a temper and I absolutely hate my life being interfered) but I never expected to be jumped like this for hours. I've also been called a selfish brat (WTF?) who is putting my interest over the glory of my family . One of my uncles actually told me that he'd disown me if I didn't pick GW . Like I even care. By the way I'm 25 .

Needless to say that made my night. I guess it's a big deal when I'm the only one in the family who even went to college, but come on.
[/rant]

[JamMasterJ]

Do they not realize that in 1600s England you would be sent to prison with that debt?


Anyway, I think that GWU is a great school, but not quite high enough to stomach full price. However, if you got onto UM's waitlist, I would assume that you likely have good enough numbers for it to be a shame for you to end up at Rutgers - btw I'm not knocking them but your employability will be an issue down the road.

Is there anyway that you can retake/reapply? I don't think a degree from Camden will be sufficient to get you into a big enough firm to have dealings with Korea, regardless of your expertise. You need to be at a really solid school to have that opportunity, and I don't think Rutgers is the place, nor is GWU a great financial decision. Unless you get 15K+ per yr, retake and reapply

[Prime12]

Thing is... I already tried. I have a 169(ugh) and I didn't get in anywhere I wanted to go last year so I retook in February while working part time. I got a lower score, and though I had been PT'ing in the 170's, I really did give it the best I got.

[dpk711]

GW is a solid school but definitely not worth sticker.

[SilverE2]

Sorry, your story just reminded me of that meme.

[JamMasterJ]

Thing is... I already tried. I have a 169(ugh) and I didn't get in anywhere I wanted to go last year so I retook in February while working part time. I got a lower score, and though I had been PT'ing in the 170's, I really did give it the best I got.

how the hell did you not get money? gpa?

[Prime12]

Yeah... I have a 3.15. That's enough said right there.

[mettasutta]

Yeah... I have a 3.15. That's enough said right there.

Mid-western T30s would have thrown an insane amount of $$$ at you, despite the GPA (i.e. WUSTL, Minn, IUB etc)...schollies at those schools would be much better than GW sticker or Rutgers-Camden.

[JamMasterJ]

I think that, better score aside, you need to reapply next cycle. You will have a shot at money from similarly regarded schools next year.

[Grizz]

I think that, better score aside, you need to reapply next cycle. You will have a shot at money from similarly regarded schools next year.

Yeah bro. WUSTL.

Also fuck your idiot family. If they want you to go to GW so bad, get them to pay for it.

[mettasutta]

IUB has been handing 120K schollies like candy to anyone with a 166+ this cycle, regardless of how crappy the GPA.

[enron123]

Yeah I would wait a year and apply in the midwest 169, maybe tweak your apps too

[thexfactor]

retake + try UVA ED.

[danielblack]

The only reason to go to GW is if you want to get into patent law. At least that's the only reason I went there. The starting salary I now make, which is solely due to the my engineering background and the GW name (my class rank was only top 20%), more than makes up for the tuition I paid. It kind of sucks, but I am actually living at home just so I can pay off all of my loans by the end of my second year working. No way I could have done that if I had gone to a school like Rutgers Camden.

[adt231]

I think that, better score aside, you need to reapply next cycle. You will have a shot at money from similarly regarded schools next year.

Yeah bro. WUSTL.

Also fuck your idiot family. If they want you to go to GW so bad, get them to pay for it.

TITCR. Tell them to pay for your family's prestige if they want it so bad for the family name.

But on a related note, since you are thinking of practicing in Korea, who the f*** is going to know the difference between GW and Rutgers for law school? Will they even know the difference between Michigan and Rutgers? Once you get outside the legal community in the US (and, there's actually plenty of people within the legal community in the US who fail to know that GW and Rutgers are very different in ranking), the laymen is not going to have clue about the rankings of these schools unless you tell them.

Also, if you want to practice in Korea, I'm assuming that you have the connections to do so. If that's the case ignore re-applying and go to Rutgers for only 30k. You will NOT get a JD for any cheaper (unless its another school you can commute to and live rent-free somehow).

[Prime12]

As stupid as this sounds, I couldn't make the decision myself so I 'networked' around to gather some expert opinions. I had a chance to ask someone working for a huge multinational chemical company(that's all I will say) who was in charge with preparing a lawsuit against a company in Korea.

Basically I was told that this shouldn't even be a discussion and I shouldn't hesitate to attend GW. She said if an opportunity to do cross cultural dealings is what I'm after and I pick a T2 over a higher ranked school for $, I am not thinking long term and will likely to be 'very disappointed' in the future.

I'm still not 100% set but now I am REALLY leaning towards GW. Ugh............

[whymeohgodno]

Asian parents are huge prestige whores. I speak from personal experience.

[whymeohgodno]

I think that, better score aside, you need to reapply next cycle. You will have a shot at money from similarly regarded schools next year.

Yeah bro. WUSTL.

Also fuck your idiot family. If they want you to go to GW so bad, get them to pay for it.

TITCR. Tell them to pay for your family's prestige if they want it so bad for the family name.

But on a related note, since you are thinking of practicing in Korea, who the f*** is going to know the difference between GW and Rutgers for law school? Will they even know the difference between Michigan and Rutgers? Once you get outside the legal community in the US (and, there's actually plenty of people within the legal community in the US who fail to know that GW and Rutgers are very different in ranking), the laymen is not going to have clue about the rankings of these schools unless you tell them.

Also, if you want to practice in Korea, I'm assuming that you have the connections to do so. If that's the case ignore re-applying and go to Rutgers for only 30k. You will NOT get a JD for any cheaper (unless its another school you can commute to and live rent-free somehow).

Are you dumb? Koreans are big on prestige. They know the difference between GW and Rutgers. Laymen don't do the hiring do. People who went to Seoul U/Yonsei/Koryu do. And I know anecdotally that these people are huge prestige whores.

That said, I would choose Rutgers. To work in Korea you need connections. It doesn't sound like you have them. GW won't get you there on it's own anyways.

[mettasutta]

Asian parents are huge prestige whores. I speak from personal experience.

WUSTL is just as well-regarded if not more than GW amongst prestige-whoring Asian parents, and wouldn't dig OP into a ditch of exorbitant debt thanks to their generosity with merit aid and lower CoL in St. Louis as opposed to DC.

[whymeohgodno]

Asian parents are huge prestige whores. I speak from personal experience.

WUSTL is just as well-regarded if not more than GW amongst prestige-whoring Asian parents, and wouldn't dig OP into a ditch of exorbitant debt thanks to their generosity with merit aid and lower CoL in St. Louis as opposed to DC.

Agree. Too bad OP didn't apply there. Waiting a year is probably the best choice.

[adt231]

I think that, better score aside, you need to reapply next cycle. You will have a shot at money from similarly regarded schools next year.

Yeah bro. WUSTL.

Also fuck your idiot family. If they want you to go to GW so bad, get them to pay for it.

TITCR. Tell them to pay for your family's prestige if they want it so bad for the family name.

But on a related note, since you are thinking of practicing in Korea, who the f*** is going to know the difference between GW and Rutgers for law school? Will they even know the difference between Michigan and Rutgers? Once you get outside the legal community in the US (and, there's actually plenty of people within the legal community in the US who fail to know that GW and Rutgers are very different in ranking), the laymen is not going to have clue about the rankings of these schools unless you tell them.

Also, if you want to practice in Korea, I'm assuming that you have the connections to do so. If that's the case ignore re-applying and go to Rutgers for only 30k. You will NOT get a JD for any cheaper (unless its another school you can commute to and live rent-free somehow).

Are you dumb? Koreans are big on prestige. They know the difference between GW and Rutgers. Laymen don't do the hiring do. People who went to Seoul U/Yonsei/Koryu do. And I know anecdotally that these people are huge prestige whores.

That said, I would choose Rutgers. To work in Korea you need connections. It doesn't sound like you have them. GW won't get you there on it's own anyways.

Just being a prestige whore does not mean that you are informed enough to actually make the right prestige-whoring decision. This is an elementary logical mistake. Analogous example: "OMG, your son turned down Harvard, Yale, AND Stanford in order to attend Rutgers PhD program in philosophy/cognitive science. What was he thinking? I'm going to hire the Ivy or Stanford grad first." This person is an idiot because Rutgers is HANDS DOWN better than any of these departments for theoretical cog sci.

Get my drift? Plus, pretty much none of your advice is different than mine for the OP since I realize and already implied that (a) GW's prestige is not great and that (b) connections are what are going to get the OP a job.

So, I guess we are left with the following questions: How many prestige-whoring Koreans are going to prestige-whore well? And also, then the next question is: will they prestige-whore well enough to realize that the US News and World Report Rankings are barely as good as toilet paper when discriminating between various schools?

[whymeohgodno]

Agree with you bro, but just saying that Koreans in managerial positions are huge prestige whores compared to American counterparts. It's part of the culture...Koreans in Korea take much more pride in what school they went to than most Americans do. They carry it everywhere.

[Prime12]

I just received my fin aid pkg from GW. $15k need based aid . I think I know where I'll be headed for the next 3 years of my life .

[arvcondor]

I just received my fin aid pkg from GW. $15k need based aid . I think I know where I'll be headed for the next 3 years of my life .

I didn't even think need-based aid existed.

[mattviphky]

You're confining yourself to too small of a region...you have the numbers for big money at WUSTL (which is a t20), Indiana, UIUC, possibly Vandy. With all the money IUB has to throw around lately, they should continue an impressive ranking climb. Saddle up and head west!!!