.... Forum

[niederbomb]

,

[dpk711]

Texas sucks. See you at Philly this fall.

[tdicks]

wait, UT is going to pay you 30,000 a year to go to law school there? take the money and run. you could do a lot worse than austin. $150,000 is a lot of money. a lot of people don't even make that much money in 10 years, much less pay it back. that is a gigantic safety net. penn is a fantastic school that i would love to attend, but it's not HYS and UT is a pretty fantastic school as well.

also, houston is a pretty awesome city once you figure it out. all the benefits of a big city with a much lower cost of living. living there would not be the end of the world. and dallas wouldn't be too bad if you end up being richer than god.

[niederbomb]

wait, UT is going to pay you 30,000 a year to go to law school there? take the money and run. you could do a lot worse than austin. $150,000 is a lot of money. a lot of people don't even make that much money in 10 years, much less pay it back. that is a gigantic safety net. penn is a fantastic school that i would love to attend, but it's not HYS and UT is a pretty fantastic school as well.

also, houston is a pretty awesome city once you figure it out. all the benefits of a big city with a much lower cost of living. living there would not be the end of the world. and dallas wouldn't be too bad if you end up being richer than god.

Not $30,000/year, $30,000 total. Thus, I'd still have to dip into personal savings, assuming I don't get a sweet 2L summer gig. I'd still graduate without debt.

Houston is awesome? It's a port city and much more liberal/more international than Dallas. It's also not far from the beach.

But what about the traffic, the sprawl, and the lack of public transportation? You have no idea how much I hate driving, particularly in the city. I'd love to live in either a walkable city like Dover, DE or Vancouver, BC or somewhere I could take the subway to work like Philly or NYC. Austin/San Antonio are not so bad, I think. Dallas/Houston/LA are intolerable.

I would happily attend UT if I were confident I could land a gig in either Austin or San Antonio.

[tdicks]

But what about the traffic, the sprawl, and the lack of public transportation? You have no idea how much I hate driving, particularly in the city. I'd love to live in either a walkable city like Wilmington, DE or Vancouver, BC or somewhere I could take the subway to work like Philly or NYC. Austin/San Antonio are not so bad, I think. Dallas/Houston/LA are intolerable.

ahhhh, see l i love driving i will say though, that i have a number of friends living in midtown who don't drive much. the light rail gets a lot of shit, but for people in midtown/downtown, it's quite useful. if you found a job in midtown and lived there, you wouldn't really need a car for most of your daily activities. and who knows, maybe they'll finally get those additional lines for the light rail built??

[RPK34]

IMO, this isn't even close. Take Texas.

[174]

IMO, this isn't even close. Take Texas.

[glewz]

Texas. not even close IMHO.

[niederbomb]

TLS's reflexive coastal bias notwithstanding, this is not even close.

I'm quite surprised.

[fingersxd]

TLS's reflexive coastal bias notwithstanding, this is not even close.

I'm quite surprised.

You shouldn't be. If you do reasonably well at UT, getting a job in Austin or San Antonio at midlaw (which seems to be your preference) should be pretty easy. Likewise, moving to the east coast isn't a problem (you have no ties anywhere so recruiters won't be surprised). And if you can graduate with no debt, or better yet money in the bank, than that is hard to turn down.

I think the reason TLS skews towards the coasts and t6/t14 at all times is because there are a disproportionate # of people looking at big law. Since you are not sold on that career path this same reasoning shouldn't apply. Thus, you don't need to attend Penn to get what you are looking for (though I should add that by no means does UT restrict you from biglaw if you do well).

As an additional matter, I've gotten the impression that many on TLS and elsewhere don't accurately take into account interest, etc. when they are considering their COA and future debt. Maybe you already have, but if you haven't and your COA at Penn is 150k you should realize that you will likely be paying back closer to 200k (maybe more or less depending on whether you want to do a 10/15/20 or however many year plan). This is much more restrictive than people realize in the longer term -- it is harder to save for retirement, harder to put away for a rainy day, harder to invest in stocks, bonds, a home, etc. Substantial debt truly does have a snowball effect on every aspect of your life so you should just take that into account.

P.S. - Apologies for the short rant, but this is something I feel fairly strongly about (have worked in both finance and legal) and it's something people don't seem to properly calculate -- or maybe they do and just don't make it obvious on TLS.

[redsoxfan2495]

I was pretty set on going to UPenn until two things happened:

1) I got full tuition + $29,000 at UT Austin (in-state) to use for living expenses. Between that and personal savings, I could graduate in 2014 with $$ in the bank.

2) After receiving updated information from my parents, Penn nixed my need-based aid. My COA is approximately $150,000.

3) I might (probably would) hate life if I had to live in Dallas or Houston. I would prefer to live on the East Coast but could settle for Austin or San Antonio.

4) Prefer Midlaw but would take Big Law

I double-deposited at both schools to give me time to visit from overseas.

I voted UT. The only reason you should even have to think about this is if you're dead set against working in Texas.

[BarbellDreams]

This is not even close, I am surprised this is even a topic. Go to UT, enjoy the nearly 40% biglaw with no debt and realize that you have an amazing deal. UT will more or less guarantee you midlaw at least in TX, give you a good shot at biglaw in TX and give you some shot at biglaw in NY if you absolutely smoked grades during 1L. Having no debt in midlaw = having debt with biglaw so basically even the worst case scenario for you ends up being a pretty good one. Penn is a nice school, but its not 150k (or anywhere close to that) better than UT...

[twister52]

Not $30,000/year, $30,000 total. Thus, I'd still have to dip into personal savings, assuming I don't get a sweet 2L summer gig. I'd still graduate without debt.

Houston is awesome? It's a port city and much more liberal/more international than Dallas. It's also not far from the beach.

But what about the traffic, the sprawl, and the lack of public transportation? You have no idea how much I hate driving, particularly in the city. I'd love to live in either a walkable city like Dover, DE or Vancouver, BC or somewhere I could take the subway to work like Philly or NYC. Austin/San Antonio are not so bad, I think. Dallas/Houston/LA are intolerable.

I would happily attend UT if I were confident I could land a gig in either Austin or San Antonio.[/quote]

First post as I finally have something to contribute...

Having grown up in San Antonio I can tell you that you will drive everywhere. It is one of the largest cities area wise (not metropolitan area, but actual city area), and lacks a viable public transportation option. In fact, the only option is the VIA bus system, and that is awful. The better (safest) areas to live in are the north central/western suburbs, and have an average drive time of 45-55 minutes each way (assuming you will work more than 10 miles away from where you live). San Antonio heavily relies on the major highways that run through the city (I-10, I-35, I-37, Loop 410, Loop 1604, US-90 and US-281). There is very little housing downtown as the city thrives on tourism, and uses that area for hotels, shops, etc.

[formerbiglawpartner]

The fact that you are even asking this question suggests you don't have the acumen to be a successful attorney anywhere, let alone big law. This is absolutely a no brainer.

[ballpop]

But what about the traffic, the sprawl, and the lack of public transportation? You have no idea how much I hate driving, particularly in the city. I'd love to live in either a walkable city like Dover, DE or Vancouver, BC or somewhere I could take the subway to work like Philly or NYC. Austin/San Antonio are not so bad, I think. Dallas/Houston/LA are intolerable.

Er---what? Vancouver is a car city.

[ballpop]

The fact that you are even asking this question suggests you don't have the acumen to be a successful attorney anywhere, let alone big law. This is absolutely a no brainer.

Big law requires legal acumen? I thought it required a highlighter and no soul

[ResolutePear]

IMO, this isn't even close. Take Texas.

[Sogui]

I voted Texas, though it does depend on what you are looking for in a city. Plus if you aren't hooked on Biglaw and have a good class rank, east coast work wouldn't be out of the question.

Plus you could always bear Texas for a few years of work until your degree stops mattering as much and you can explore more options.

I loved Austin, but I dunno what you see in San Antonio. Besides SA's 2 major tourist landmarks, that city has nothing going for it. Once the novelty of the river-walk wears off it will be far more tiresome than Dallas or Houston, which offer at least some variety in entertainment.

I am confident that Penn is not worth the additional $150k unless you really wanted east coast biglaw, and almost certainly not worth 1 year of your life and $200k+ for Columbia/Chicago AND the potential risk that you won't improve your scores on retake and have wasted all the time for nothing.

[dakatz]

Its things like this that make me truly angry at USNews. They manage to convince people like OP that there is actually a debate, that there is actually an argument to be made for Penn over what should be the most logical and easy decision of his/her life. Texas in less than a heartbeat.

[Older Chest]

Glad to see another fan of Party Down on TLS.

Texas is a great school, although it's clearly not quite on the same level as Penn. With that said, the scholarship in this case seems like too sweet of a deal to turn down. Just my two cents.

Best of luck to you.

[nOO law]

Texas. not even close IMHO.

[Cavalier]

Texas. You'd be crazy to turn it down for Penn at sticker.

[dakatz]

Btw, we need to somehow identify the 4 insane 0L's who voted Penn and invalidate their ability to participate in future polls. Seriously.

[JamMasterJ]

UT, easily

[haus]

UT, easily

+1