Is it worth it to pay for GW over Rutgers Camden free? Forum

[ardvark666]

Hello all. I am in an odd spot. I have a job that will pay for me to go to school but I can't go far which leaves me attending Rutgers Camden part time, or I can quit my job, go to D.C. and attend GW or American. It may seem dumb but it is worth asking. Is paying for GW and relocating worth it (job prospect-wise) over an essentially free ride at Rutgers? It is not an easy decision and a lot more is going into this on my end but I am looking at rankings and wondering if being a guy from RU is going to be much worse than from GW or American once I add in the debt. And no, they will not give me any money because I make too much right now. If I quit and waited a year maybe they would offer me some cash but not right now.

[aliarrow]

Where do you wanna work?
What do you wanna do?

[bk1]

Are you saying sticker at GW (aka $220,000+)?

If so then it isn't worth it. I mean if you are burning through your savings to do it then I guess it could be okay but the debt:jobprospects ratio is much better at Rutgers for free tuition (assuming you are okay with being in NJ for a while) versus GW at over $200k.

[Stringer Bell]

I don't think the amount of income you earn is going to do anything for your COA at GW besides the rate you pay on your loans and whether or not they start accruing interest before or after you graduate.

[ardvark666]

I just had to ask. But yes it would be close to full price, maybe 40k off if I am very lucky. I plan to work in the north east maybe Philly, D.C., Baltimore, or N.Y. My choice is either Entertainment or Business law. Just not Divorce or anything to do with personal injury. Hell I could work for the DA. I just have to tell this person whether I am either going to try to go to D.C. or not. My GF would love to go to Gallaudet but sadly I think the debt is not worth it. It just sucks that I only get one choice if my company pays for it. I still have to work so really RU is it. Unless I fight my way through traffic to Temple. Meh. Go RU. Again.

[Wholigan]

I just had to ask. But yes it would be close to full price, maybe 40k off if I am very lucky. I plan to work in the north east maybe Philly, D.C., Baltimore, or N.Y. My choice is either Entertainment or Business law. Just not Divorce or anything to do with personal injury. Hell I could work for the DA. I just have to tell this person whether I am either going to try to go to D.C. or not. My GF would love to go to Gallaudet but sadly I think the debt is not worth it. It just sucks that I only get one choice if my company pays for it. I still have to work so really RU is it. Unless I fight my way through traffic to Temple. Meh. Go RU. Again.

No way sticker at GW is worth it compared to any T2 for free. Just an aside - entertainment law is basically impossible unless you have significant contacts in the field, and working for the DA's office is quite competitive. Maybe I'm interpreting your tone wrong, but you make it sound like you'd take the DA if nothing else worked out. Also, does the company you work for employ lawyers? In my experience, it would be very unusual for an employer to pay for legal education if there wasn't any chance they would get to use your experience for their benefit.

[kapachino]

I say choose the free ride and try to intern in DC or do something in NJ that would put you in DC after LS.

[Ersatz Haderach]

Take the free ride, man. GW is just too expensive.

[ardvark666]

Thanks, yeah I might as well go free. And no I am not taking a tone, I have some connections but I was saying that I don't want family law or personal injury and the DA would come in 3rd for places I don't want to be but I'd do it over those 2. I'm not a troll and this is a serious decision. I am an adult who worked for a degree and still works a full time job that pays for education as a negotiated benefit. That's all. Honestly, It's sad that such a large corp doesn't harvest their workers at all. I have a BA paid for by them and they could care less. Oh well. That's their loss. But if I get into Penn I'm quitting and taking loans. It's my dream school. I got a 3.52 gpa and I'm a 32 year old white guy. I need stellar LSAT's for Penn. I practice at like 167.

[Ersatz Haderach]

Thanks, yeah I might as well go free. And no I am not taking a tone, I have some connections but I was saying that I don't want family law or personal injury and the DA would come in 3rd for places I don't want to be but I'd do it over those 2. I'm not a troll and this is a serious decision. I am an adult who worked for a degree and still works a full time job that pays for education as a negotiated benefit. That's all. Honestly, It's sad that such a large corp doesn't harvest their workers at all. I have a BA paid for by them and they could care less. Oh well. That's their loss. But if I get into Penn I'm quitting and taking loans. It's my dream school. I got a 3.52 gpa and I'm a 32 year old white guy. I need stellar LSAT's for Penn. I practice at like 167.

Sounds like a good course of action. Penn is where sticker starts to be worth it. (for most)

[Wholigan]

Thanks, yeah I might as well go free. And no I am not taking a tone, I have some connections but I was saying that I don't want family law or personal injury and the DA would come in 3rd for places I don't want to be but I'd do it over those 2. I'm not a troll and this is a serious decision. I am an adult who worked for a degree and still works a full time job that pays for education as a negotiated benefit. That's all. Honestly, It's sad that such a large corp doesn't harvest their workers at all. I have a BA paid for by them and they could care less. Oh well. That's their loss. But if I get into Penn I'm quitting and taking loans. It's my dream school. I got a 3.52 gpa and I'm a 32 year old white guy. I need stellar LSAT's for Penn. I practice at like 167.

Well that sounds like a good situation to be in, so I'd consider Rutgers for free. But - does this mean you haven't taken the LSAT yet? If so, this whole thread is meaningless. First of all, I don't know if you're already close to maxing out your score but if you can get up to 170, you might be looking at significant money from GW where you assume it would be sticker.

Secondly, if you can get 171-172 you probably have a shot to get in somewhere in the T14. Maybe even 169-170 if you ED. Why would you only consider Penn? I understand you have to stay in the Philly area if you get your job to pay, but you would have to leave your job to go to Penn anyway, so why not try to get your LSAT up and apply broadly?

(Also, I wasn't suggesting you were a troll, I just couldn't tell if you knew the DA's office was competitive or not. PM me if you want more info, I was in a similar position as you before, and made one of the choices you are considering.)

[ardvark666]

No, I'm taking my LSAT in June again. I got a 161 but I'm going again. And I don't want to sell my house just to go to school. It is all a bit too much at this point. Long story short, I have a relative in D.C. who I could rent a house from and I have a person who would stay in my house here. It all winds up being too much to deal with so I have decided to stay here. Which leaves me with RU if I stay at work and Penn if I perform a miracle LSAT. All other schools in the area (Temple, Nova) are not worth leaving my job for and RU is easy to get to after work. Basically Penn is my storybook ending. I'm prolly goin Rutgers.

[tarp]

I don't know if Temple has a part-time program or not, but if Rutgers is easy to get to for you, then so is Temple. The traffic is not that bad, it's maybe an extra 15 minutes to Temple from Camden, and you can always take PATCO to 8th and Market and transfer to the Broad Street line. Driving across the Ben Franklin is not a big deal. Have you ever seen D.C. area traffic? The slog across the Ben Franklin Bridge and up Broad Street is NOTHING in comparison. Not that there is any significant reason to attend Temple over Rutgers-Camden, I'm just saying it's close enough to be doable. The commute from NJ into any of the Philly-area schools except Villanova is perfectly doable.

Also consider Drexel full-time (I'm a 2L there and highly recommend it). If you have the numbers to get in to GW, then you will probably get a full ride at Drexel would enable you to quit your job and focus on law school (you could take out loans for living expenses if necessary). I had numbers that got me into Mason and Wake Forest, not quite GW (waitlisted IIRC), and I got an almost-full-ride. Drexel just got ABA accreditation by the way. I can't imagine doing law school, even part-time, while working a full-time job. Law school demands your full focus and attention.

By the way, for frame of reference, from SJ it takes under 30 minutes to University City or Temple, the trick is to avoid living out in areas like Marlton or Mt Holly, stick to Cinnaminson from the north down to West Deptford and within a few miles east of 295.

[Wholigan]

Yes, he should quit his job, lose his income and take out $60k in loans to go to Drexel instead of going to Rutgers for absolutely free while keeping his job. This is great advice.

Plus he said he already owns a house. So WTF with the advise to live in the Route 130 corridor instead of Marlton or Mt. Holly? He's going to live wherever he already lives in SJ.

[tarp]

You need to work on your reading comprehension Wholigan... I didn't advise him to sell his house. I said the commute to Philadelphia is easier when you live closer to 295 and the bridges. Part of the reason why people make posts on forums such as these is to provide advice not just for the person who posed the question, but for people who may stumble across the post at a later date and have a similar inquiry.

And law school is a serious undertaking - I wouldn't recommend doing it part-time while working. It's too much to juggle, in my opinion. Of course, you can make that work if it's your best option.

Either way, it's a moot point because he got a 161 on the LSAT which means he may not even get in to Rutgers-Camden let alone GW, Temple, or get a scholarship at Drexel. And I would be surprised to find an employer that pays for law school tuition, especially when a likely result of an employee attending law school is that employee eventually leaving the company to practice law. However, I have no reason to doubt him.

BTW, these people who wear Phillies hats and t-shirts every day make me sick. It is a for-profit sports team, why do people provide free advertising (in fact, they pay for the licensed merchandise) for them? It is not an attractive outfit to wear - it's tacky and low class. Can't wait to get out of here!

[20160810]

Let's look at it this way:

If you go to GW, your odds are about 1-in-5 of snagging a job that will let you cover your debt in a reasonable timeframe. If you get such a job, bully for you! You'll be in the chips, paying off your loans, carrying a degree from a very solid T1 school, and things will be good. Women will want you, and men will want to be you. Problematically, however, there is a more-or-less-80% chance that this will not happen.

If you go to Rutgers, your odds of snagging a job that will let you cover your debt are pretty much 100%. Take the money.

[whymeohgodno]

Sometimes you have to roll the dice.

This is not one of those cases.

[Wholigan]

BTW, these people who wear Phillies hats and t-shirts every day make me sick. It is a for-profit sports team, why do people provide free advertising (in fact, they pay for the licensed merchandise) for them? It is not an attractive outfit to wear - it's tacky and low class. Can't wait to get out of here!

You are planning to get out of the Phillies-merchandise-wearing-zone from Drexel??

[tarp]

Yes, what's the problem with that?

[RHawk]

Yes, what's the problem with that?

I'd assume he said this because Drexel is considered TTT/TTTT or a regional law school for the PA/Philly area (behind Penn, Temple, Nova, Penn State, Pitt, Duqesne, all of the Rutgers ect...). You will have difficulty moving outside of the Philadelphia regional market even if you are at the top of your class.

If you look at the TLS stats for the school;

In terms of a raw percentage, the number of graduates that reported being able to find full-time legal work was 61%

, of those 61% employed 73.3% where working in the Phillies-merchandise-wearing-zone (PA, NJ, NY) .

[tarp]

That's funny, because I know 3Ls with jobs lined up in other markets. I am opening my own law office anyway. Part of the appeal of practicing law is the ability to be your own boss. I will have to ability to do so because I won't owe a penny in loans when I graduate.

[RHawk]

Congratulations. There are obviously exceptions to nearly all statistics.

[Wholigan]

BTW, these people who wear Phillies hats and t-shirts every day make me sick. It is a for-profit sports team, why do people provide free advertising (in fact, they pay for the licensed merchandise) for them? It is not an attractive outfit to wear - it's tacky and low class. Can't wait to get out of here!

You are planning to get out of the Phillies-merchandise-wearing-zone from Drexel??

Yes, what's the problem with that?

Only that after just getting back from celebrating the end of finals by joining the rest of the low class in one of our grotesque hippodromes, wearing our tacky licensed merchandise, I can't understand why you'd want to get away.

Besides, aren't your everyman clients in your solo practice going to be the same peasants who regularly descend upon their arenas, where they will engorge themselves on meats and breads, taking breaks only when the T-shirt cannons come out? Sounds like you will have a lot in common with them.

[ardvark666]

Wow, this is getting a bit heated. To clarify just a bit, I already have a degree from Rutgers. I have a connection in D.C. who would help me but it is familial and sometimes you just need to do things on your own. While D.C. was an option, there was more to my decision than just money. So I am keeping the house and staying in Jersey. No offense but I would not go to Drexel, especially due to its lack of history and accreditation issues. Temple is actually a long ride from Jersey during rush hour. Plus I would never drive my brand new car into the ghetto. I live by the Patco but do not want to deal with the Broad St transfer since I have to leave work and make it to class in a timely fashion. My job pays after work hours. No exceptions. Ever. I appreciate all of the help on this thread. I really do. Bottom line is Rutgers unless my good looks and charm sway Penn into letting a 3.52 gpa slide.

On a side note; it would be great if work experience counted for more than filler.

Oh and I am a Yankees/Giants fan in the Philly market so I have to agree with being tired of the Phillies gear. When I moved out here only old people and frat boys wore Phillies stuff. Now everybody has jumped on the bandwagon for the worlds losingest team. I would hate it if I were a Phillies fan only because frontrunners suck. They drive up prices right until the team sucks again and poof, they are gone. Take it from a RU season tix holder. 18 to 50$ in one season. Boooo.
Honestly, I hope everyone on here does well in law. I hope the economy allows for better job prospects. And I really hope that the T14 or bust people get smacked with the reality that their pretentiousness will get them nowhere in life. It ain't all about the surface, sometimes you actually need to perform.

[tarp]

Drexel's "accreditation issues" - what issues do you speak of? ABA accreditation takes three to five years. Accreditation is not an overnight process. Either way, Drexel will be fully accredited very, very soon. A few years from now it will probably also rank above Rutgers-Camden in the beloved (yet useless) U.S. News list. Below is a snippet of the e-mail from our Dean earlier this week:

"I, along with President Fry, Provost Greenberg and Professors Bernstein, Brooks and Filler, appeared in front of the ABA Accreditation Committee this past Friday. The Committee members voted unanimously to recommend to the ABA’s Council of the Section of Legal Education and Admissions to the Bar the full approval of the Earle Mack School of Law. We are scheduled to appear before the members of the Council at their meeting on August 5, 2011 in Toronto."