emory (10k p/y) vs gw Forum

[HyeMart]

can't choose between the two.


Would like options for big law or pi.

[HyeMart]

any reasons for the gw vote? i see the big law difference only 4-5% points... although I can see why dc is better for pi

i havn't been to either area and i can't afford to, so i am a bit lost here deciding between numbers and statistics

[Aberzombie1892]

Both of them will cost you a lot more than they are worth.

[Metaread]

GW here, the higher opportunities are nice. But it's true that it will be very expensive.

But, Aberzombie, what exactly makes you say they'll cost a lot more than they're worth? Law school is usually extremely expensive anyway, right?

[tea_drinker]

I voted emory because I assume the COA is cheaper at emory compared to GW. If this is not true, then switch my vote to GW.

[forty-two]

I voted emory because I assume the COA is cheaper at emory compared to GW. If this is not true, then switch my vote to GW.

+1 I think GW is a great school, but sticker is absolutely frightening because of the COL in DC. I personally don't think the difference in biglaw placement is large enough to be worth 200k. Atlanta is super cheap (the school vastly overestimates COA here, btw). However, as much as I love Emory and as low as the COL is, you'd still be looking at a lot of debt. OP, did you get large scholarships anywhere? I just think it might be a good idea to minimize cost in this school range because there's a big chance that you wouldn't get a job that pays enough for you to comfortably manage your debt.

[drummerboy]

go to emory great school. atlanta is great.everyone will have debt.

[Metaread]

drummerboy, how is Emory better than GW in this case though?

[Magnolia]

GW here, the higher opportunities are nice. But it's true that it will be very expensive.

But, Aberzombie, what exactly makes you say they'll cost a lot more than they're worth? Law school is usually extremely expensive anyway, right?

Yes, all law schools are extremely expensive. Some of those schools offer decent employment opportunities as a return on that investment. GW and Emory are not among those schools.

Although GW has decent employment figures, it has an outrageous COA. Students who pay sticker will be paying their loans for decades if they miss the biglaw boat, which is very likely. GW has peer schools which offer similar employment propsects for cheaper, which makes GW at sticker a terrible choice.

The employment prospects at Emory are absolutely atrocious. I wouldn't recommend anyone go there for anything less than a full ride.

Neither school gives you a reasonable chance at biglaw which will allow you to pay off your loans quickly. Both have peer schools which will cost way less and give you the same employment opportunities. So, aberzombie is right that both schools will cost far more than they are worth.

[drummerboy]

nonsense. if you do well at emory youll have a job. current third year has five job offers and chose a high paying biglaw job in nyc. dont listen to ols that like to hear themselves speak. a recent visit to emory asd suggested that no one is really worried about job prospects. these forums overstate the negative aspects of any school mentioned

[Magnolia]

nonsense. if you do well at emory youll have a job. current third year has five job offers and chose a high paying biglaw job in nyc. dont listen to ols that like to hear themselves speak. a recent visit to emory asd suggested that no one is really worried about job prospects. these forums overstate the negative aspects of any school mentioned

lolwut?

First, I never said that Emory has a 100% unemployment rate, so the fact that you met a 3L who has a job, doesn't disprove my point and is kind of irrelevant. I would bet, though, that he's at the very top of his class, which makes it an extremely unhelpful and misleading anecdote for the OP. Most students aren't going to be at the top of the class, and those really great job opportunities and mulitiple offers aren't the reality for kids who graduate at the median from Emory. Just because someone got a biglaw job coming out of Emory doesn't mean that everyone can.

Second, obviously the school is going to be upbeat about its employment prospects at ASD. Obviously they're going to parade around their most successful and enthusiastic students. The school is trying to sell itself to prospective students for chrissake. You honestly expect them to stand up there and say that only 5 students got jobs from their 2010 OCI? I bet Cooley touted their ability to place graduates their ASD too. Doesn't make it true.

[80884]

nonsense. if you do well at emory youll have a job. current third year has five job offers and chose a high paying biglaw job in nyc. dont listen to ols that like to hear themselves speak. a recent visit to emory asd suggested that no one is really worried about job prospects. these forums overstate the negative aspects of any school mentioned

lolwut?

First, I never said that Emory has a 100% unemployment rate, so the fact that you met a 3L who has a job, doesn't disprove my point and is kind of irrelevant. I would bet, though, that he's at the very top of his class, which makes it an extremely unhelpful and misleading anecdote for the OP. Most students aren't going to be at the top of the class, and those really great job opportunities and mulitiple offers aren't the reality for kids who graduate at the median from Emory. Just because someone got a biglaw job coming out of Emory doesn't mean that everyone can.

Second, obviously the school is going to be upbeat about its employment prospects at ASD. Obviously they're going to parade around their most successful and enthusiastic students. The school is trying to sell itself to prospective students for chrissake. You honestly expect them to stand up there and say that only 5 students got jobs from their 2010 OCI? I bet Cooley touted their ability to place graduates their ASD too. Doesn't make it true.

+1

[drummerboy]

what makes any 0L, including myself, an expert on anything regarding law school and employment. one thing ive learned over the past couple of months on tls, is that people reiterate what others, equally clueless like themselves, told them and then pretend they are authorities. at the end of the day its your class rank, networking skills, and dumb like that will help you reach your goal. lets stop assuming that any law school you attend, especially a top 30 school , will automatically entitle you financial success. pick a school in a region you wish to attend, and providing that the $$$ is right, choose one that is a good fit for you personally. dont rely on the aspirations of anyone but yourself.

[FGCUguy123]

nonsense. if you do well at emory youll have a job. current third year has five job offers and chose a high paying biglaw job in nyc. dont listen to ols that like to hear themselves speak. a recent visit to emory asd suggested that no one is really worried about job prospects. these forums overstate the negative aspects of any school mentioned

lolwut?

First, I never said that Emory has a 100% unemployment rate, so the fact that you met a 3L who has a job, doesn't disprove my point and is kind of irrelevant. I would bet, though, that he's at the very top of his class, which makes it an extremely unhelpful and misleading anecdote for the OP. Most students aren't going to be at the top of the class, and those really great job opportunities and mulitiple offers aren't the reality for kids who graduate at the median from Emory. Just because someone got a biglaw job coming out of Emory doesn't mean that everyone can.

Second, obviously the school is going to be upbeat about its employment prospects at ASD. Obviously they're going to parade around their most successful and enthusiastic students. The school is trying to sell itself to prospective students for chrissake. You honestly expect them to stand up there and say that only 5 students got jobs from their 2010 OCI? I bet Cooley touted their ability to place graduates their ASD too. Doesn't make it true.

I've heard similar stories and met a few students (that weren't involved with the ASW and who ARENT in the top of the class from Emory) who have excellent jobs lined up. Should we disregard these too? I'm confused as to where we draw the line here. No, but you're right, it isn't a reality for these employed students from Emory. They are going to wake up tomorrow and go, "Oh shit! That Biglaw job I thought I had was just a figment of my imagination! I have to face the reality that I am at the median and there is no way this very real, very big job....is real."

[drummerboy]

cooley? what a crappy comparison. i guess these posters all must have gotten into schools way better than Emory. lets see, maybe t29 so they obviously are in better shape. at this point in the cycle, it should be crystal clear that 98% of what tls tells you is bullshit. i have never spoken to any law student or lawyer, that agrees with the great majority of the so called authoritative information indiscriminately spewed on TLS. at the most, its a great source of mental masturbation. people should decide for themselves if a school or location and the cost is right for them.

[Aberzombie1892]

nonsense. if you do well at emory youll have a job. current third year has five job offers and chose a high paying biglaw job in nyc. dont listen to ols that like to hear themselves speak. a recent visit to emory asd suggested that no one is really worried about job prospects. these forums overstate the negative aspects of any school mentioned

lolwut?

First, I never said that Emory has a 100% unemployment rate, so the fact that you met a 3L who has a job, doesn't disprove my point and is kind of irrelevant. I would bet, though, that he's at the very top of his class, which makes it an extremely unhelpful and misleading anecdote for the OP. Most students aren't going to be at the top of the class, and those really great job opportunities and mulitiple offers aren't the reality for kids who graduate at the median from Emory. Just because someone got a biglaw job coming out of Emory doesn't mean that everyone can.

Second, obviously the school is going to be upbeat about its employment prospects at ASD. Obviously they're going to parade around their most successful and enthusiastic students. The school is trying to sell itself to prospective students for chrissake. You honestly expect them to stand up there and say that only 5 students got jobs from their 2010 OCI? I bet Cooley touted their ability to place graduates their ASD too. Doesn't make it true.

I've heard similar stories and met a few students (that weren't involved with the ASW and who ARENT in the top of the class from Emory) who have excellent jobs lined up. Should we disregard these too? I'm confused as to where we draw the line here. No, but you're right, it isn't a reality for these employed students from Emory. They are going to wake up tomorrow and go, "Oh shit! That Biglaw job I thought I had was just a figment of my imagination! I have to face the reality that I am at the median and there is no way this very real, very big job....is real."

Relax.

I don't understand your point - but a non-scientific random sampling is never worth the time it took to acquire the information.

Obviously, people will get good jobs across the spectrum at any law school. But if you attend Emory thinking you will make $100,000 a year, regardless of what the school says in its recruitment materials, you will be making a mistake. Sure some people will make that much, but it's impossible to tell how many.

What we do know is that that number is less than 50% of the class:

42% of Emory's class of 2009 made more than $75,000.* However, the classes of 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, and most likely 2014 will be worse than that. This isn't only an Emory problem. It's a problem facing all schools outside the top ranked ones.

*my source for Emory 2009 employment data is that 2009 employment thread

[bk1]

@HyeMart: Listen to magnolia, she's right. Simply put, these schools are going to cost you in the range of $150,000 to $200,000 worth of debt (more than that for GW) and the job prospects simply are not worth it. If you like, give this a read (http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 2&t=153659) as to why this is so. You should go to a better school if you are going to pay sticker or you should go to a worse and take a scholarship that can keep your debt under at no more than $100,000.

cooley? what a crappy comparison. i guess these posters all must have gotten into schools way better than Emory. lets see, maybe t29 so they obviously are in better shape. at this point in the cycle, it should be crystal clear that 98% of what tls tells you is bullshit. i have never spoken to any law student or lawyer, that agrees with the great majority of the so called authoritative information indiscriminately spewed on TLS. at the most, its a great source of mental masturbation. people should decide for themselves if a school or location and the cost is right for them.

You're flat out wrong. If you really feel like arguing against conventional TLS wisdom (something that is shared by a great many students) then I ask you to find anything wrong with my link above. Ironically enough, TLS is one of the least pessimistic places in regards to going to law school. ATL, boards like xoxo, the scambloggers... they all rail against it far harder than anyone on TLS. And as for current lawyers, to put it bluntly they don't really know how bad it is now because things used to be much better (if they were a grad from the aughts) or things used to be much cheaper (if they were a grad from the last millennium).

[Magnolia]

I've heard similar stories and met a few students (that weren't involved with the ASW and who ARENT in the top of the class from Emory) who have excellent jobs lined up. Should we disregard these too? I'm confused as to where we draw the line here. No, but you're right, it isn't a reality for these employed students from Emory. They are going to wake up tomorrow and go, "Oh shit! That Biglaw job I thought I had was just a figment of my imagination! I have to face the reality that I am at the median and there is no way this very real, very big job....is real."

Again, I never said that no one at Emory gets a job ever. That's not true. Some of the people at Emory get jobs, even kids at the median. But that doesn't mean that everyone is getting a job. And it certainly doesn't mean that everyone is getting a job that pays enough to justify going there at sticker (or with a 10k/year scholarship) which is what we're actually talking about here.

Only ~40% of the c/o 2011 at WUSTL has a job lined up right now. That means that even if every single one of the those people were going into biglaw (and they aren't), it's still only 40% of the class. Now some of the remaining 60% will get government or PI jobs that pay well after they pass the bar. But a majority of them won't. What is everyone else going to do? How are they going to pay back their loans? Those odds do not justify paying sticker. And WUSTL is a peer school to Emory.

OP will have ~178,000 in debt upon graduation, not including the compounding interest that will accrue while in school. Now, if OP isn't one of the lucky few who get firm jobs, then what? It will take decades to pay that off with a job that pays 45-60k. This is what I mean when I say Emory is not worth the money that OP would have to pay.

edit: thanks for the support bk!

[FGCUguy123]

I've heard similar stories and met a few students (that weren't involved with the ASW and who ARENT in the top of the class from Emory) who have excellent jobs lined up. Should we disregard these too? I'm confused as to where we draw the line here. No, but you're right, it isn't a reality for these employed students from Emory. They are going to wake up tomorrow and go, "Oh shit! That Biglaw job I thought I had was just a figment of my imagination! I have to face the reality that I am at the median and there is no way this very real, very big job....is real."

Again, I never said that no one at Emory gets a job ever. That's not true. Some of the people at Emory get jobs, even kids at the median. But that doesn't mean that everyone is getting a job. And it certainly doesn't mean that everyone is getting a job that pays enough to justify going there at sticker (or with a 10k/year scholarship) which is what we're actually talking about here.

Only ~40% of the c/o 2011 at WUSTL has a job lined up right now. That means that even if every single one of the those people were going into biglaw (and they aren't), it's still only 40% of the class. Now some of the remaining 60% will get government or PI jobs that pay well after they pass the bar. But a majority of them won't. What is everyone else going to do? How are they going to pay back their loans? Those odds do not justify paying sticker. And WUSTL is a better school than Emory.

OP will have ~178,000 in debt upon graduation, not including the compounding interest that will accrue while in school. Now, if OP isn't one of the lucky few who get firm jobs, then what? It will take decades to pay that off with a job that pays 45-60k. This is what I mean when I say Emory is not worth the money that OP would have to pay.

Side question: how is WUSTL a better school then Emory?

[bk1]

I've heard similar stories and met a few students (that weren't involved with the ASW and who ARENT in the top of the class from Emory) who have excellent jobs lined up. Should we disregard these too? I'm confused as to where we draw the line here. No, but you're right, it isn't a reality for these employed students from Emory. They are going to wake up tomorrow and go, "Oh shit! That Biglaw job I thought I had was just a figment of my imagination! I have to face the reality that I am at the median and there is no way this very real, very big job....is real."

Again, I never said that no one at Emory gets a job ever. That's not true. Some of the people at Emory get jobs, even kids at the median. But that doesn't mean that everyone is getting a job. And it certainly doesn't mean that everyone is getting a job that pays enough to justify going there at sticker (or with a 10k/year scholarship) which is what we're actually talking about here.

Only ~40% of the c/o 2011 at WUSTL has a job lined up right now. That means that even if every single one of the those people were going into biglaw (and they aren't), it's still only 40% of the class. Now some of the remaining 60% will get government or PI jobs that pay well after they pass the bar. But a majority of them won't. What is everyone else going to do? How are they going to pay back their loans? Those odds do not justify paying sticker. And WUSTL is a better school than Emory.

OP will have ~178,000 in debt upon graduation, not including the compounding interest that will accrue while in school. Now, if OP isn't one of the lucky few who get firm jobs, then what? It will take decades to pay that off with a job that pays 45-60k. This is what I mean when I say Emory is not worth the money that OP would have to pay.

Side question: how is WUSTL a better school then Emory?

I wouldn't say that WUSTL is better than Emory (they are peers in my mind) but I would agree with everything else she said. Though, Emory does seem to be reeling a bit more from the economy than WUSTL is.

I would say that even at a school like WUSTL/Emory, being in the bottom 1/4 is going to be rough for finding a job.

[drummerboy]

i agree it has to be financially feasible to attend, but rest assured that at some point in time sweat equity plays a big part in determining financial success. one can not simply rely on any school even hys to get them their dream job without some degree pavement pounding along the way. indeed, even people in the medical field have to rely on connections to land them their first decent job. and beleve me, they too have astronomical debt. yes, they all likely to secure some job right away, but i venture to say that any student in t30 will have at least a job, maybe not their dream job, by nine months. its not the end of the world.

[drummerboy]

ps we all know that things pretty much suck out there. there is no denying this.

[dood]

98% of what tls tells you is bullshit

seriously. glad to see u figured this out early. when it hits u, u'r like "whoa, i cant i bought into, even participated, in that mental masturbation circle-jerk"

[drummerboy]

miserable people love miserable company, were all victims

[Magnolia]

I've heard similar stories and met a few students (that weren't involved with the ASW and who ARENT in the top of the class from Emory) who have excellent jobs lined up. Should we disregard these too? I'm confused as to where we draw the line here. No, but you're right, it isn't a reality for these employed students from Emory. They are going to wake up tomorrow and go, "Oh shit! That Biglaw job I thought I had was just a figment of my imagination! I have to face the reality that I am at the median and there is no way this very real, very big job....is real."

Again, I never said that no one at Emory gets a job ever. That's not true. Some of the people at Emory get jobs, even kids at the median. But that doesn't mean that everyone is getting a job. And it certainly doesn't mean that everyone is getting a job that pays enough to justify going there at sticker (or with a 10k/year scholarship) which is what we're actually talking about here.

Only ~40% of the c/o 2011 at WUSTL has a job lined up right now. That means that even if every single one of the those people were going into biglaw (and they aren't), it's still only 40% of the class. Now some of the remaining 60% will get government or PI jobs that pay well after they pass the bar. But a majority of them won't. What is everyone else going to do? How are they going to pay back their loans? Those odds do not justify paying sticker. And WUSTL is a better school than Emory.

OP will have ~178,000 in debt upon graduation, not including the compounding interest that will accrue while in school. Now, if OP isn't one of the lucky few who get firm jobs, then what? It will take decades to pay that off with a job that pays 45-60k. This is what I mean when I say Emory is not worth the money that OP would have to pay.

Side question: how is WUSTL a better school then Emory?

I wouldn't say that WUSTL is better than Emory (they are peers in my mind) but I would agree with everything else she said. Though, Emory does seem to be reeling a bit more from the economy than WUSTL is.

I would say that even at a school like WUSTL/Emory, being in the bottom 1/4 is going to be rough for finding a job.

//