Davis vs Hastings vs UCLA Forum

chocoholic · Post by **chocoholic** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:30 pm

Some background on me....I have family in northern California and, ideally, I would like to stay in norcal for law school or at least work there upon graduation. I visited Davis and was pretty much convinced I was going to attend until I heard back from UCLA. Does a school like UCLA really give you that much of an edge over a school like Davis or Hastings? Also, my numbers are typically lower than what UCLA normally accepts and I'm worried this will hurt me (aka I won't be doing as well as my classmates). Any advice would be much appreciated, thanks!

tea_drinker · Post by **tea_drinker** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:34 pm

What do you want to do career wise? I voted for Davis because you like it there and of my personal preference

chocoholic · Post by **chocoholic** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:39 pm

tea_drinker wrote:What do you want to do career wise? I voted for Davis because you like it there and of my personal preference

I'm kind of all over the place....I'm interested in international business law, health law and criminal law. I'm not "biglaw or bust" but I would like to keep my options open. What made you vote for Davis?

arhmcpo · Post by **arhmcpo** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:50 pm

Assuming Davis matches Hastings offer - and your sure you want to stay in Norcal - and you personally love Davis much more than the other options - then (and only then) do I think you could go to Davis and not be a total lunatic for turning down UCLA.

Do not worry at all about your "numbers" being lower than UCLA's norm and that equating to you being bottom of your class. My friend was literally last off the waitlist at his school and is above median student as a 2L - point being once you walk through the doors at your law school everyone is equal. Your LSAT/GPA cease to matter once you start law school that's why people stress taking advantage of them for the best offer or school possible - you've worked hard for those stats and this is the time you cash in. Statistically your less likely to be top of your class at UCLA but by no means does that suggest your gonna flunk out or be at the bottom either.

tea_drinker · Post by **tea_drinker** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:00 pm

chocoholic wrote:
tea_drinker wrote:What do you want to do career wise? I voted for Davis because you like it there and of my personal preference
I'm kind of all over the place....I'm interested in international business law, health law and criminal law. I'm not "biglaw or bust" but I would like to keep my options open. What made you vote for Davis?

You should put the COA of each school in the poll to make it easier for readers. Are you currently living in Norcal? If so, where? Can you commute between your home and either Hastings or Davis to save renting costs?

If neither, I feel like the 30K Hastings gives you will be more or less your renting costs living in SF. Both Hastings and Davis have respectable health law courses. Davis has reputable criminal courses. So I lean toward Davis.

I didn't choose UCLA because COL in westwood is high. If you intend to live and work in NorCal and given acceptable grades, Hastings and Davis are efficient choices.

jwmalone87 · Post by **jwmalone87** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:54 pm

If Davis gives you $$ (and they DO give out generous need-based grants -- fill out that NeedAcess), I lean Davis. If not, you're $200k+ in the hole at UCLA...great school, but not a very economical decision.

Full disclosure: I'm attending Davis this fall.

chocoholic · Post by **chocoholic** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:58 pm

tea_drinker wrote:
chocoholic wrote:
tea_drinker wrote:What do you want to do career wise? I voted for Davis because you like it there and of my personal preference
I'm kind of all over the place....I'm interested in international business law, health law and criminal law. I'm not "biglaw or bust" but I would like to keep my options open. What made you vote for Davis?
You should put the COA of each school in the poll to make it easier for readers. Are you currently living in Norcal? If so, where? Can you commute between your home and either Hastings or Davis to save renting costs?

If neither, I feel like the 30K Hastings gives you will be more or less your renting costs living in SF. Both Hastings and Davis have respectable health law courses. Davis has reputable criminal courses. So I lean toward Davis.

I didn't choose UCLA because COL in westwood is high. If you intend to live and work in NorCal and given acceptable grades, Hastings and Davis are efficient choices.

Thanks for the advice. Where did you decide to attend? It looks like the cost of living plus tuition for Davis is $58,463 vs. $59,916 for Hastings (Davis tuition is actually a bit more than Hastings). UCLA may be around $62,000 but $$ will not be the deciding factor in my decision. I would have to rent a new apt in SF or Davis as I don't live close enough to commute.

chocoholic · Post by **chocoholic** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:59 pm

arhmcpo wrote:Assuming Davis matches Hastings offer - and your sure you want to stay in Norcal - and you personally love Davis much more than the other options - then (and only then) do I think you could go to Davis and not be a total lunatic for turning down UCLA.

Do not worry at all about your "numbers" being lower than UCLA's norm and that equating to you being bottom of your class. My friend was literally last off the waitlist at his school and is above median student as a 2L - point being once you walk through the doors at your law school everyone is equal. Your LSAT/GPA cease to matter once you start law school that's why people stress taking advantage of them for the best offer or school possible - you've worked hard for those stats and this is the time you cash in. Statistically your less likely to be top of your class at UCLA but by no means does that suggest your gonna flunk out or be at the bottom either.

Thanks for this....I need a boost of confidence and you're making a very good point.

tea_drinker · Post by **tea_drinker** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:13 am

chocoholic wrote:
tea_drinker wrote:
chocoholic wrote:
tea_drinker wrote:What do you want to do career wise? I voted for Davis because you like it there and of my personal preference
I'm kind of all over the place....I'm interested in international business law, health law and criminal law. I'm not "biglaw or bust" but I would like to keep my options open. What made you vote for Davis?
You should put the COA of each school in the poll to make it easier for readers. Are you currently living in Norcal? If so, where? Can you commute between your home and either Hastings or Davis to save renting costs?

If neither, I feel like the 30K Hastings gives you will be more or less your renting costs living in SF. Both Hastings and Davis have respectable health law courses. Davis has reputable criminal courses. So I lean toward Davis.

I didn't choose UCLA because COL in westwood is high. If you intend to live and work in NorCal and given acceptable grades, Hastings and Davis are efficient choices.

Thanks for the advice. Where did you decide to attend? It looks like the cost of living plus tuition for Davis is $58,463 vs. $59,916 for Hastings (Davis tuition is actually a bit more than Hastings). UCLA may be around $62,000 but $$ will not be the deciding factor in my decision. I would have to rent a new apt in SF or Davis as I don't live close enough to commute.

First, if money is not the deciding factor, then I take back all that I said and offer new advice, which is go to UCLA.

michigan_man · Post by **michigan_man** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:27 am

These schools shouldn't be in the same conversation when it comes to placement. If you are serious about being any type of lawyer in California, don't pass up UCLA for $10k a year at a vastly inferior school (in terms of job prospects). Also, UCLA's LRAP (if you go into public interest) will be around for the foreseeable future because the school has a good enough reputation and donor base to support it. Davis? Not so much. Appreciate your good fortune and head to UCLA.

tea_drinker · Post by **tea_drinker** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:35 am

michigan_man wrote:These schools shouldn't be in the same conversation when it comes to placement. If you are serious about being any type of lawyer in California, don't pass up UCLA for $10k a year at a vastly inferior school (in terms of job prospects). Also, UCLA's LRAP (if you go into public interest) will be around for the foreseeable future because the school has a good enough reputation and donor base to support it. Davis? Not so much. Appreciate your good fortune and head to UCLA.

Wow, the language.

Although OP has $30K at Hastings and impending scholarship at Davis.

arhmcpo · Post by **arhmcpo** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:53 am

tea_drinker wrote:
michigan_man wrote:These schools shouldn't be in the same conversation when it comes to placement. If you are serious about being any type of lawyer in California, don't pass up UCLA for $10k a year at a vastly inferior school (in terms of job prospects). Also, UCLA's LRAP (if you go into public interest) will be around for the foreseeable future because the school has a good enough reputation and donor base to support it. Davis? Not so much. Appreciate your good fortune and head to UCLA.
Wow, the language.

Although OP has $30K at Hastings and impending scholarship at Davis.

Harsh but not wrong either. UCLA is a national and CA power and always will be. Hastings is a strong school and Davis through a recent shot in the rankings is now comparable to Hastings. There's no room in that market for Davis to become better than what it is now with Stanford-Bezerkly (and UCLA-USC) already established powers in the state. I really think that Davis has "capped" out in the rankings, unless Sacramento becomes a new hot bed for Big Law and other legal jobs... which is about as likely as the Kings staying in Sacramento.

chocoholic · Post by **chocoholic** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:06 am

arhmcpo wrote:
tea_drinker wrote:
michigan_man wrote:These schools shouldn't be in the same conversation when it comes to placement. If you are serious about being any type of lawyer in California, don't pass up UCLA for $10k a year at a vastly inferior school (in terms of job prospects). Also, UCLA's LRAP (if you go into public interest) will be around for the foreseeable future because the school has a good enough reputation and donor base to support it. Davis? Not so much. Appreciate your good fortune and head to UCLA.
Wow, the language.

Although OP has $30K at Hastings and impending scholarship at Davis.
Harsh but not wrong either. UCLA is a national and CA power and always will be. Hastings is a strong school and Davis through a recent shot in the rankings is now comparable to Hastings. There's no room in that market for Davis to become better than what it is now with Stanford-Bezerkly (and UCLA-USC) already established powers in the state. I really think that Davis has "capped" out in the rankings, unless Sacramento becomes a new hot bed for Big Law and other legal jobs... which is about as likely as the Kings staying in Sacramento.

Harsh, but it's why I put the question out there, to get honest advice. Is it easy to move back up north from UCLA as far as job placements go?

FF55 · Post by **FF55** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:09 am

jwmalone87 wrote:If Davis gives you $$ (and they DO give out generous need-based grants -- fill out that NeedAcess), I lean Davis.

Davis gave me $0.

tea_drinker · Post by **tea_drinker** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:18 am

arhmcpo wrote:
Harsh but not wrong either. UCLA is a national and CA power and always will be. Hastings is a strong school and Davis through a recent shot in the rankings is now comparable to Hastings. There's no room in that market for Davis to become better than what it is now with Stanford-Bezerkly (and UCLA-USC) already established powers in the state. I really think that Davis has "capped" out in the rankings, unless Sacramento becomes a new hot bed for Big Law and other legal jobs... which is about as likely as the Kings staying in Sacramento.

...and you have to bring up the Kings to hurt us NorCal kids. Go Warriors, oh, wait. damn.

UCLA is definitely a better school, and given equal COAs, OP should take UCLA (as I said above). But I don't know how much money, if any, OP may get from Davis.

arhmcpo · Post by **arhmcpo** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:31 am

chocoholic wrote:
arhmcpo wrote:
tea_drinker wrote:
michigan_man wrote:These schools shouldn't be in the same conversation when it comes to placement. If you are serious about being any type of lawyer in California, don't pass up UCLA for $10k a year at a vastly inferior school (in terms of job prospects). Also, UCLA's LRAP (if you go into public interest) will be around for the foreseeable future because the school has a good enough reputation and donor base to support it. Davis? Not so much. Appreciate your good fortune and head to UCLA.
Wow, the language.

Although OP has $30K at Hastings and impending scholarship at Davis.
Harsh but not wrong either. UCLA is a national and CA power and always will be. Hastings is a strong school and Davis through a recent shot in the rankings is now comparable to Hastings. There's no room in that market for Davis to become better than what it is now with Stanford-Bezerkly (and UCLA-USC) already established powers in the state. I really think that Davis has "capped" out in the rankings, unless Sacramento becomes a new hot bed for Big Law and other legal jobs... which is about as likely as the Kings staying in Sacramento.
Harsh, but it's why I put the question out there, to get honest advice. Is it easy to move back up north from UCLA as far as job placements go?

I'm not an expert, but the widely help perception is that UCLA places extremely well throughout CA, and fairly well in the rest of the country (not T-14 well but the next best thing). And factually, their job placement is much stronger. While there are certain innate benefits to going to a school directly in your desired region like strongest alumni support and the ability to work during the school year -- these benefits alone likely do not outweigh the prestige and reach of a UCLA JD.

drdolittle · Post by **drdolittle** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:54 am

UCLA's clearly the best overall school out of these options. A lower class rank there will carry you further. Realistically though for a variety of reasons, going there will make it significantly more likely you'll end up in SoCal at least initially, especially in this CA econ, so I'd plan on that. Also as others have posted, it's not like you're getting huge $ from Hastings or Davis. Be prepared to possibly not get much if anything from Davis even though you got something from Hastings.

Lasers · Post by **Lasers** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:26 am

30k from hastings meaning 10k per year?

go to ucla. 10k per shouldn't keep you from going to the best school.

definitely not davis, either, unless they pony up and give you significantly more than 10k.

Zabini · Post by **Zabini** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:35 am

arhmcpo wrote: Harsh but not wrong either. UCLA is a national and CA power and always will be. Hastings is a strong school and Davis through a recent shot in the rankings is now comparable to Hastings. There's no room in that market for Davis to become better than what it is now with Stanford-Bezerkly (and UCLA-USC) already established powers in the state. I really think that Davis has "capped" out in the rankings, unless Sacramento becomes a new hot bed for Big Law and other legal jobs... which is about as likely as the Kings staying in Sacramento.

This post sums it up really well. Barring the possibility of Davis randomly throwing an absolute heap of money at you, UCLA is TCR.

amissionsix · Post by **amissionsix** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:55 pm

I'm curious what everybody's thoughts would be if this discussion was USC ($0) vs. Hastings ($63K) given that I want to practice in the Bay Area.

Even though USC/UCLA are "ranked" closely, I get the sense that UCLA is a better school than the numbers suggest. Similarly I have a hard time believing that Hastings and Davis are as far apart as the "rankings" claim. Any thoughts/input are appreciated.

Lasers · Post by **Lasers** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:02 pm

amissionsix wrote:I'm curious what everybody's thoughts would be if this discussion was USC ($0) vs. Hastings ($63K) given that I want to practice in the Bay Area.

Even though USC/UCLA are "ranked" closely, I get the sense that UCLA is a better school than the numbers suggest. Similarly I have a hard time believing that Hastings and Davis are as far apart as the "rankings" claim. Any thoughts/input are appreciated.

there's a very similar thread about this from someone else; 63k at hastings seemed like a better deal than usc.

chocoholic · Post by **chocoholic** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:30 pm

so it seems like unless davis comes up with a loooot of money (which i don't even think they can afford) then ucla is the place to go. now, there are specific things i like about davis (certain clinics, for example) that ucla does not offer. would this be a reason to pick davis? or in the long run does that kind of stuff not matter as much?

drdolittle · Post by **drdolittle** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:38 pm

chocoholic wrote:so it seems like unless davis comes up with a loooot of money (which i don't even think they can afford) then ucla is the place to go. now, there are specific things i like about davis (certain clinics, for example) that ucla does not offer. would this be a reason to pick davis? or in the long run does that kind of stuff not matter as much?

No, it doesn't.

20160810 · Post by **20160810** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:28 pm

I love Davis. I couldn't be happier here, and I suspect most people would love it here too. But unless they pony up a lot of money, you really ought to go to UCLA.

chocoholic · Post by **chocoholic** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:36 pm

SBL wrote:I love Davis. I couldn't be happier here, and I suspect most people would love it here too. But unless they pony up a lot of money, you really ought to go to UCLA.

Hmm, I've seen you post great things about Davis! Kinda surprised at your advice...

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