Boston College 1.1k/mo for 10yrs vs Boston University 1.3k Forum

[whereto4law]

At the same CoA, BU is the choice here. Go to the higher ranked school, especially since it is ranked higher than a school you are considering that happens to be located in the same city.

[bk1]

At the same CoA, BU is the choice here. Go to the higher ranked school, especially since it is ranked higher than a school you are considering that happens to be located in the same city.

At same CoA for peer schools it should be personal preference that matters more than silly magazine rankings.

They are peers no matter what USNWR says.

[mettasutta]

At the same CoA, BU is the choice here. Go to the higher ranked school, especially since it is ranked higher than a school you are considering that happens to be located in the same city.

At same CoA for peer schools it should be personal preference that matters more than silly magazine rankings.

They are peers no matter what USNWR says.

+1. Look at this years' NLJ250 rankings, OP: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

[zonto]

With tuition plus the schools' own fees they include in their cost-of-living analysis, BU is $42,698 per year and BC is $41,818 per year. Plus, BU raised their tuition 3% this year and BC only 2%. This $880 difference plus projected increases at the same amount the next two years means there is about a $2,700 difference between the two. Not insignificant.

In all seriousness, visit and decide. When I did, I hadn't yet been accepted to BC and didn't want to get my hopes up. I did love it though. BU had a great feel though, and I definitely like the idea of living in the city with no car. I really think it comes down to personal preference. From my research it seems that more BC kids self-select to stay in Boston, but they have just as many opportunities for off-campus interviewing in New York and DC as the BU kids.

You could also consider living somewhere like Waltham and driving to BC if you want to keep your car. Rent is cheaper out there for bigger apartments (sometimes), so there are definitely options to consider.

[JusticeHarlan]

From my research it seems that more BC kids self-select to stay in Boston, but they have just as many opportunities for off-campus interviewing in New York and DC as the BU kids.

Something I didn't know until after I'd enrolled: the two schools run a joint recruitment program in NYC, so the same firms sign up to interview students from both schools on the same day, at the same location, etc. For non-NYC off-campus recruiting, both schools are part of the Law Consortium.

Not that some employers don't come up to Boston to recruit at one or both schools, of course. But the main off-campus recruiting programs are run jointly.

[alumniguy]

Something I didn't know until after I'd enrolled: the two schools run a joint recruitment program in NYC, so the same firms sign up to interview students from both schools on the same day, at the same location, etc. For non-NYC off-campus recruiting, both schools are part of the Law Consortium.

Not that some employers don't come up to Boston to recruit at one or both schools, of course. But the main off-campus recruiting programs are run jointly.

Credited. I'd be curious to hear how many NYC firms actually come down to BC/BU to interview outside of the NYC job fair. I'm somewhat removed from the recruiting scene ('08 BC grad), but at BC there are maybe a handful of NYC firms (or I should say firms located in NYC looking for NYC summer associate) that come to campus directly. The majority of the NYC firms that recruit BC students do so through the NYC off-campus job fair. I assume it is similar at BU, but I'd definitely be curious to see someone from BU address the point (and also any current BC students that could address the issue).

Regarding self-selection, back before BU halved its class size and jumped BC in the rankings, I think it is safe to assume that BC students did significantly better in Boston than BU. Given the relatively small market in Boston, it forced BU students to look elsewhere, with the closest and easiest market being NYC. This, plus the fact that there are significantly more BU alumni (due to their previously higher number class size), which means more alumni scattered around the country, probably leads to the perception that BU places better than BC nationally. However, now that BU appears to be closing the Boston gap (or has closed the gap depending upon one's point of view), more BC students are being forced to look elsewhere, including NYC and other markets. My guess, is that self-selection still plays a role in which students decide to go BC vs. BU based on the numbers that the career services department puts out and general 0L perceptions (as cultivated on this site and others like it). However, I would be surprised if either school really offered any better opportunity over the other when it comes to placement.

[jpSartre]

This topic has become a pretty insame wealth of information. Thanks everyone who has contributed, thanks very much.


I heard from a friend that the BC culture is comparable to the ND culture, in that its - for lack of a better word - cultish. How true is this?

And if this is ill-informed, and even a bit derogatory, can only speak to the different cultures of these two schools? What I think I need for a good decision - after my visit to the schools in 2 weeks - is a better understanding of the social place these schools fill. For again, lack of a better term, where do these schools fit into the social structure of the Boston area. For example, what kinds of people do these schools attract, and is there any difference in the type of people or lawyers they produce?

Similarly, is the education any different at these schools? The most obvious question being, does the Jesuit education differ from the secular education of BU, but also, do other difference effect the type of education I would receive at either school?

[Blindmelon]

And if this is ill-informed, and even a bit derogatory, can only speak to the different cultures of these two schools? What I think I need for a good decision - after my visit to the schools in 2 weeks - is a better understanding of the social place these schools fill. For again, lack of a better term, where do these schools fit into the social structure of the Boston area. For example, what kinds of people do these schools attract, and is there any difference in the type of people or lawyers they produce?

Similarly, is the education any different at these schools? The most obvious question being, does the Jesuit education differ from the secular education of BU, but also, do other difference effect the type of education I would receive at either school?

The Jesuit thing doesn't seem to be a huge deal, but a few of my gay friends said they felt much more comfortable at BU. BU seems to attract a more diverse set of students geographically, which probably also explains its relative spread (lots of CA people, a decent group from TX etc). The general rep is that BC is more preppy, BU is a little more hipstery (both in good and bad ways depending on the people). I do think BC students are more into the fact that they go to BC (theres a lot of BC UG to BC law people), BU students tend to not really care although a massive cohort of BU law students go to the hockey games which are a ton of fun.

I don't mean this in a trolly way (BC students chime in with what you think is a selling feature), but BU does a good job of making 1L not so crazy. You only take 3 classes + writing seminar first semester, which was a great, cushy transition into law school. The next semester you take a full course load. Also, BU has been pushing the practical - we have a lot of contract drafting, discovery, legal writing, classes taught by former partners or current lawyers in Boston. Really great to learn about how the federal rules actually work in practice and to learn things that will make you shine over your peers (the nitty gritty of filing documents, what briefs need to contain, etc), while simultaneously meeting good contacts.

As you've probably seen too, BU puts a massive emphasis on the quality of professors and so they're constantly rated as the best around (by Princeton Review though which is a POS). But while many schools emphasize legal academia chops (and we have a good amount of those), the school here focuses on access to professors and general ability to make law school not suck. My former contracts professor (the singing professor) just got included on the top 20 law profs to take - thats just an example.

[dakatz]

I mentioned it in another thread yesterday, but BU runs a contest every year in which 2 professors are nominated and voted on by students for an award in teaching excellence. I'm not talking about just the law school, but in BU as a whole so we are talking TONS of professors. Today, I found out that yet another BU law professor is going to receive one of these teaching excellence awards. The best part is that the very best professors all teach first year classes. Two of the 3 contracts professors have won these awards (including the one Blindmelon mentioned who was in a magazine in an article entitled "20 Law professors you should take a class with before you die" or something like that). My con law professor won such an award, and our dean was also an award-winning professor. Its really important to us that we have someone who was such a beloved professor running the school, and not just some outsider who comes in and tries to run the show. I really can't stress how good the faculty is here.

Having been in Boston for awhile, I agree that BC gets more of the preppy types, though there is more than enough variance to generalize too much. BC gets a lot of homegrown Bostonians and New Englanders. BU is a more international school with students coming from further away. So I would venture to say its a bit more eclectic, and can certainly be a bit more hipster in a sense. But I think the differences are more at the undergrad level, and less noticeable at the law school level.

I also second what Blindmelon said about the great job BU did at easing us in. Taking one less class last semester really helped us get in the groove without too much pressure on our heads. There were SO many events set up to help everyone get comfortable and friendly, and those continued throughout the year. I felt like BU tried really hard to pull us together and pull us through. I have nothing but good things to say about the place.

[alumniguy]

This topic has become a pretty insame wealth of information. Thanks everyone who has contributed, thanks very much.


I heard from a friend that the BC culture is comparable to the ND culture, in that its - for lack of a better word - cultish. How true is this?

And if this is ill-informed, and even a bit derogatory, can only speak to the different cultures of these two schools? What I think I need for a good decision - after my visit to the schools in 2 weeks - is a better understanding of the social place these schools fill. For again, lack of a better term, where do these schools fit into the social structure of the Boston area. For example, what kinds of people do these schools attract, and is there any difference in the type of people or lawyers they produce?

Similarly, is the education any different at these schools? The most obvious question being, does the Jesuit education differ from the secular education of BU, but also, do other difference effect the type of education I would receive at either school?

I guess I'll take up the BC response (although current students feel free to chime in as well). I am not sure what you mean by "cultish"? That word has a rather negative connotation.

The social environment at BC is dominated by good people. The student body is active - they help each other out when needed, they are quick to make friends, they are social, they are involved in sports, etc. I hate this term - the disneyland of law schools - but it generally holds true. Students are friendly and non-competitive. Professors are approachable. People smile. One aspect of BC that I enjoyed was that it truly is a campus. Most students come to the law school campus in the mornings and leave in the evenings. Because it is located in Newton separate and apart from the undergrad, there is a strong community feel to the law school. You eat lunch with your section mates. Most people study in the law library. On spring days you'll find students in the "quad" (really a triangle) eating lunch, studying and enjoying the sun.

Similarly, the law school is relatively separate from the undergrad policies. Historically, BC law was given wide latitude to be run separately from the overall university (e.g., for several decades the law school had a Jewish dean). This has changed (especially under former Dean Garvey) and there is now an active push to bring the law school more in line with the greater university and its Jesuit tradition. I am non-religious and I disliked the Catholic/Jesuit-ness of the main university. I will say it is much less pronounced on the law school campus, but it can be frustrating hearing about things that occur on the main campus. There is no overt religion that goes on at the law school campus like there is at ND (or so I have heard). For example, professors don't start class with prayers and there are no crosses to be found in the classrooms. Overall, though the law school is pretty non-religious. Certainly you aren't going to be pressured into converting to Catholicism. The law school seems to be infatuated with its jesuit tradition, which in my opinion is really just a tradition that values social justice and responsibility, which is evident is the school's strong public interest placement.

BC is viewed as more of a preppy school - but this is more attributable to the undergrad reputations than the law school reputations. BC Law certainly has its fair share of NE WASPs, but I think that is true of any law school in the northeast. I get the sense that affluent northeastern students would chose BC over BU because of BC's historically better reputation (something that no longer holds true but is probably a factor nonetheless). Regardless, there is a wide diversity of students at BC. Traditionally, I think BC had a more diverse student population in terms of age and experience (which I think is highlighted by the general consensus that BU is more concerned in LSAT/GPA scores), but this is changing. BC is starting to focus more and more on LSAT/GPA and I think that is resulting in an increasingly younger student body. I would imagine that the student bodies are probably very similar at both schools, with perhaps a bit more preps at BC than BU.

The professors are overwhelming high caliber. They all incredible teachers and really enjoy teaching (as opposed to being more focused on scholarship). The professors are well educated and extremely knowledgeable. However, in the legal field, becoming an expert is tied to getting published and I don't think that BC places a premium on faculty publishing as much as BU. They are approachable and generally care about their students. The faculty is overwhelming liberal and a very close knit community. In the past this created tension with the former dean who was overwhelming conservative and in my opinion, far too religious oriented. But then again I am not very religious. It should be interesting to see/hear how BC's new dean affects the school. I am impressed that they've chosen their first minority dean and I think that speaks volume regarding the how inclusive the law school really is.

Bottom line is that you can't really go wrong at either of these two schools. The schools provide a far different atmosphere and you won't really know which one you prefer until you visit. If you can't visit, then you'll just have to take a leap of faith. Good luck.

[mettasutta]

BUMP. Lots of good info ITT.

[jpSartre]

Thank you everyone. This thread has become a great, concentrated resource for the BU/BC decision!.

I'll be visiting both schools in 2 weeks to make a decision...

[jpSartre]

BC scholly increase poll updated doods

105 vs. 105 results: 31 to 32 in favor of BU

(lol at hair splitting)

[zonto]

When's your trip?

[jpSartre]

When's your trip?

may 25th dood

[zonto]

may 25th dood

I see you saw that before my edit. Well, at least that will give you a few days to decide before the second deposit date!

[BCLS]

BC doesn't have to hire 16% back into "academia" like BU and still has stronger clerkship and nlj250 placement. BC ftw.

[jpSartre]

BC doesn't have to hire 16% back into "academia" like BU and still has stronger clerkship and nlj250 placement. BC ftw.

ty

funny how poll numbers changed when phrased in 10 year monthly payments

[Blindmelon]

BC doesn't have to hire 16% back into "academia" like BU and still has stronger clerkship and nlj250 placement. BC ftw.

They might do other things to fudge the numbers who knows. I haven't seen any evidence that they don't. By stronger clerkship you mean like 1% and NLJ is like 3%, could easily be self-selection.

[zonto]

BC doesn't have to hire 16% back into "academia" like BU and still has stronger clerkship and nlj250 placement. BC ftw.

ty

funny how poll numbers changed when phrased in 10 year monthly payments

I thought the COA was the same to both now since you got an increased scholarship? Wouldn't it be the same monthly payment then?

[Corwin]

I generally recommend having a car in Boston. Public transportation is pretty horrible in Boston compared to other big cities.

As a general rule, BCLS Alum is way off base. Boston has excellent public transportation; I'm guessing the green line just left a bad experience in his mouth. Also, having a car in Boston is an awful, awful idea.

[jpSartre]

BC doesn't have to hire 16% back into "academia" like BU and still has stronger clerkship and nlj250 placement. BC ftw.

ty

funny how poll numbers changed when phrased in 10 year monthly payments

I thought the COA was the same to both now since you got an increased scholarship? Wouldn't it be the same monthly payment then?

BC upped it to 28k/yr and is giving me 6500 in additional differed interest loans my good dood making it a 20,000k difference over 10 yrs

[zonto]

I generally recommend having a car in Boston. Public transportation is pretty horrible in Boston compared to other big cities.

As a general rule, BCLS Alum is way off base. Boston has excellent public transportation; I'm guessing the green line just left a bad experience in his mouth. Also, having a car in Boston is an awful, awful idea.

Why do you say that? A lot of the apartments I'm looking at in the Newton area include an outdoor parking space in the rent, so you don't have to pay the ridiculous $150 a month for a street spot further in the city (by BU).

[Corwin]

I generally recommend having a car in Boston. Public transportation is pretty horrible in Boston compared to other big cities.

As a general rule, BCLS Alum is way off base. Boston has excellent public transportation; I'm guessing the green line just left a bad experience in his mouth. Also, having a car in Boston is an awful, awful idea.

Why do you say that? A lot of the apartments I'm looking at in the Newton area include an outdoor parking space in the rent, so you don't have to pay the ridiculous $150 a month for a street spot further in the city (by BU).

Newton isn't Boston. I would imagine that you would want a car if you are going to live in a small city.

[alumniguy]

I generally recommend having a car in Boston. Public transportation is pretty horrible in Boston compared to other big cities.

As a general rule, BCLS Alum is way off base. Boston has excellent public transportation; I'm guessing the green line just left a bad experience in his mouth. Also, having a car in Boston is an awful, awful idea.

Why do you say that? A lot of the apartments I'm looking at in the Newton area include an outdoor parking space in the rent, so you don't have to pay the ridiculous $150 a month for a street spot further in the city (by BU).

If you want to live in Newton, then you probably should have a car. I think the issue is that the vast majority of BC Law students do not live in Newton. Yes, the law school is in Newton, but that doesn't mean that most students choose to live in Newton. You'll find the majority of students living in Alston/Brighton/Brookline, with a significant minority spread throughout the other neighborhoods of Boston/Cambridge/Newton/etc.

Commuting by public transport/shuttle bus to the law school can be taxing at times, it is still a completely valid option (and an option that will likely reduce living costs at that).