Same COA: Yale or Harvard? (No academia.) Forum

[Attorney]

This is not for me, my GPA was not anywhere near this orbit.

BUT, I have a friend who is making this decision. They will see this poll. Same COA at either. No interest at all in academia. Like most people, not completely sure what they want to do, but it won't be academia. Probably strongly interested in PI, clerkships, and possibly government, Big Law, or in house jobs.

Yale would normally win hands down, right, but here is the hangup. The person likes Boston quite a bit. Doesn't like New Haven at all. AT ALL. Feels they could be absolutely miserable in their surroundings if living in New Haven for three years.

Could, in this specific circumstance, Harvard be the right choice for them?

[glewz]

This is not for me, my GPA was not anywhere near this orbit.

BUT, I have a friend who is making this decision. They will see this poll. Same COA at either. No interest at all in academia. Like most people, not completely sure what they want to do, but it won't be academia. Probably strongly interested in PI, clerkships, and possibly government, Big Law, or in house jobs.

Yale would normally win hands down, right, but here is the hangup. The person likes Boston quite a bit. Doesn't like New Haven at all. AT ALL. Feels they could be absolutely miserable in their surroundings if living in New Haven for three years.

Could, in this specific circumstance, Harvard be the right choice for them?

Tell him/her to go to H & open up the Y spot for me. TIA

[FiveSermon]

Absolute misery for three years is worth it for Yale. Yale is better than Harvard at everything...except for maybe lay prestige. But who cares?!?!

[lzyovrachievr]

Does she/he know about the no real grades thing?

But seriously. They are both great schools. There isn't a wrong choice. Any difference in opportunity is completely marginal. There's no financial difference. This person doesn't want academia. Why not go to Harvard if she/he likes Harvard?

That said, this person should visit both if he/she hasn't and ask around about QOL issues.

[09042014]

Absolute misery for three years is worth it for Yale. Yale is better than Harvard at everything...except for maybe lay prestige. But who cares?!?!

I don't think absolute misery for three years is worth it for Yale, compared to three years at Harvard. The differences in placement are a lot smaller than you make it out to be. The downside is that bottom of HLS is fucking risky. You might be OCI pwnd. Yale seems to at least get you into a really shitty big law firm.

But, I really doubt this person would be miserable in Yale.

[vanwinkle]

For clerkships and prestigious employment, Yale. End of story.

You don't go to law school to enjoy yourself, you do it to build a future. I would recommend getting over not liking New Haven. It's only three years, and you'll spend a lot of that studying and getting things done. Plus, you've got cheap access to NYC via the Metro-North. Go have day trips to Manhattan if you need a getaway.

Without more specific info about what in New Haven is the problem, I can't really give a better response than that.

[FiveSermon]

For clerkships and prestigious employment, Yale. End of story.

You don't go to law school to enjoy yourself, you do it to build a future. I would recommend getting over not liking New Haven. It's only three years, and you'll spend a lot of that studying and getting things done. Plus, you've got cheap access to NYC via the Metro-North. Go have day trips to Manhattan if you need a getaway.

Without more specific info about what in New Haven is the problem, I can't really give a better response than that.

I thought people at Yale just chilled for 3 years?

[WhirledWorld]

.

[glewz]

For clerkships and prestigious employment, Yale. End of story.

You don't go to law school to enjoy yourself, you do it to build a future. I would recommend getting over not liking New Haven. It's only three years, and you'll spend a lot of that studying and getting things done. Plus, you've got cheap access to NYC via the Metro-North. Go have day trips to Manhattan if you need a getaway.

Without more specific info about what in New Haven is the problem, I can't really give a better response than that.

I thought people at Yale just chilled for 3 years?

I visited a few months back, and this was the vibe. And everyone loved the school.

[ebeth]

I think if your friend chooses Harvard Law School, he will be absolutely screwed for the rest of his life. He will never know the magic that is Yale and having a Yale Law degree.

But seriously, has your friend visited the two schools? Did he get a feel for the different atmospheres? He needs to weigh what's most important to him and then make a decision. I don't think poll results are going to help your friend make the right decision for him.

[thecynic69]

For clerkships and prestigious employment, Yale. End of story.

You don't go to law school to enjoy yourself, you do it to build a future. I would recommend getting over not liking New Haven. It's only three years, and you'll spend a lot of that studying and getting things done. Plus, you've got cheap access to NYC via the Metro-North. Go have day trips to Manhattan if you need a getaway.

Without more specific info about what in New Haven is the problem, I can't really give a better response than that.

Well said. There are definitely good reasons out there to turn down Yale (for example, to pursue IP at Stanford), but from what you reported in your post, none of them really apply to your friend. Moreover, as vanwinkle points out, Yale is the winner for clerkships and prestigious employment...end of story. That said, there are fields where the difference between Yale and Harvard are marginal, for example Big Law. But if I were Big Law or bust (with Y numbers), I'd be looking to get big money from C/UCHI.

FWIW, I think people grossly overestimate the effect of location on their happiness; happy people have a way of being happy, absent catastrophic events [like deaths in the family], and sad people have a way of being sad, absent really awesome events [winning the lottery, getting into YLS].

ETA: I chose Y over H, despite preferring Boston to New Haven (for the standard reasons, as well as the fact that I have family in Boston).

[Veyron]

You don't turn down Yale, Yale turns down you.

[Magnificent]

Yale and Harvard are basically the same. Choose whichever one you like better.

Don't listen to the idiots on this board who have never been to either one.

[llamaman]

the pizza in new haven is the shit. Stop crying and eat some good pizza

[Veyron]

Yale and Harvard are basically the same. Choose whichever one you like better.

Don't listen to the idiots on this board who have never been to either one.

You mad bro about your tiny pink Yale ding?

[Knock]

Yale. I understand that he doesn't like New Haven very much, but I think it would be worth it to attend anyways.

[BeachandRun23]

I think people overstate the differences between harvard and yale on here. If he likes harvard better, let him choose it. I really dont think 10 years down the road he will be like "FML...if only i went to yale. This harvard degree is holding me back everywhere I go."

[artemis178]

This is not for me, my GPA was not anywhere near this orbit.

BUT, I have a friend who is making this decision. They will see this poll. Same COA at either. No interest at all in academia. Like most people, not completely sure what they want to do, but it won't be academia. Probably strongly interested in PI, clerkships, and possibly government, Big Law, or in house jobs.

Yale would normally win hands down, right, but here is the hangup. The person likes Boston quite a bit. Doesn't like New Haven at all. AT ALL. Feels they could be absolutely miserable in their surroundings if living in New Haven for three years.

Could, in this specific circumstance, Harvard be the right choice for them?

Of course, Harvard could be the right choice for them (sic)! As someone who has attended both Harvard and Yale, I can say that they are both fantastic institutions with outstanding faculty and elite reputations. If your friend knows for certain that academia is not in her future, then she should absolutely go where she thinks she will be the happiest. Having a general sense of well-being is essential not just to happiness and quality of life, but also to optimal academic performance. That said, initial impressions can change too. When I first moved to New Haven, I wasn't sure I was going to be able to survive it, but the city can grew on me and when I finished my degree, I was honestly sorry to leave.

To summarize, I don't think the answer to this dilemma is as clear-cut as TLS-wisdom makes it seem. What your friend "wants" to do is at least as important as what others think she "should" do. If she (he?) feels that "absolute misery" awaits in New Haven, she should pay close attention and consider that carefully in her decision-making.

Disclosure: There is no conflict of interest here as your friend's decision will not influence my opportunities either way.

[vanwinkle]

Yale and Harvard are basically the same. Choose whichever one you like better.

Don't listen to the idiots on this board who have never been to either one.

Funny, I've been to both, and I thought the differences were obvious.

[glewz]

Yale and Harvard are basically the same. Choose whichever one you like better.

Don't listen to the idiots on this board who have never been to either one.

Funny, I've been to both, and I thought the differences were obvious.

Agree x 10

[almightypush]

Yale and Harvard are basically the same. Choose whichever one you like better.

Don't listen to the idiots on this board who have never been to either one.

Funny, I've been to both, and I thought the differences were obvious.

this.

[marlstone]

im choosing HLS over YLS and SLS. I agree that it's a very personal decision and you should go where it feels right. I can totally see why majority of cross-admits choose to go YLS over HLS (less stress, slightly better job opportunity, etc.), but it just wasn't for me. Just like OP's friend I am not interested in academia at all, and location was big (don't want to spend the last three years of my twenties in New Haven). Also, if you don't end up at bigLaw after HLS because you were the bottom 20% of the class, you probably won't end up at those firms even if you had gone to YLS. In other words, both are good enough for me in my goal of entering bigLaw, and while I do agree YLS is perceived more favorably in the legal field, I think other benefits that HLS has (bigger alumni network, Boston, better interdisciplinary curriculum, etc.) outweigh the prestige of YLS.
Don't listen to those "magic of YLS degree" or "you never turn down YLS". Again, it's a personal decision and there's no right or wrong answer. Yes it is likely that you will have super great opportunities out of law school if you go YLS, but if you are smart and driven person, your window of opportunity will not be narrower just because you chose HLS over YLS. Focus on where you will be happier and will help you mature.

[Non-Chalant1]

What the last person said.

[chasgoose]

New Haven is a lot better than people make it out to be. It's not ideal, but you kind of grow to love it. I survived for four years during undergrad where I had a lot more free time, so I imagine it's not too hard to deal with during law school.

I will say that the day trips to NYC are a lot more difficult than you think they will be. The train is about 2 hours one way and thus you kind of don't want to go unless you are going to be in NYC for more than 4 hours.

Basically if New Haven is the only reason your friend doesn't want to go to YLS, I think he/she should give Yale a chance, but if there are legitimate reasons for choosing HLS over YLS, than its not an unreasonable decision.

[XxSpyKEx]

I don't think absolute misery for three years is worth it for Yale, compared to three years at Harvard.

This. And to add to it, I think this person is more likely to be miserable at harvard than at yale. Yale doesn't have meaningful grades, and Yale alums don't even understand the meaning of student debt with how good their COAP is. Not to mention YLS seems to place better in jobs in almost everything that Harvard. In terms of relative misery, I think Harvard would be more miserable than Yale. (Also, isn't harvard known to have a miserable environment? -- whenever I hear HLS grads talk about their school, it always sounds like it is pretty fucking miserable there relatively)

Yes it is likely that you will have super great opportunities out of law school if you go YLS, but if you are smart and driven person, your window of opportunity will not be narrower just because you chose HLS over YLS.

The point is that you don't have to be a smart and driver person to have the wider window of opportunity leaving YLS. Why potentially risk your career (something you are going to spend the next 30 years doing) because you don't like the idea of living in New Haven for a measily 3 year to attend the best law school in the country?