Please help! Cardozo (full ride) vs. Cornell (no money) Forum

[rabbitgirl]

Please help me out! I am having a tough time making my final decision. I have been working for a small law firm as a patent agent for a year. Although I do like doing patent work, I also want to explore other areas of law other than IP law during law school to make sure I picked the right one.

Cardozo is ranked #50 but is known for its IP law program. Cornell is a lot more prestigious. But if I do become a patent attorney, would it matter that much that I go to a T14 school?

Thanks guys!

[hawkeye22]

I'd vote Cornell, but this is especially true if the 'Dozo ride carries any stips. I believe I got an offer from them that was top 1/3rd, which was too rich for my blood.

[3ThrowAway99]

I'd enjoy Cornell. You'll be paying a lot more money (although Ithica COL should be quite a bit lower than NYC COL), but I think there is a reasonable chance the extra money could be worth it if you get hired by an NLJ firm out of Cornell. I think Cornell was the number 1 school last year for placement into biglaw (going by NJL stats only). Also, having an Ivy on your resume could have long term benefits, not to mention the quality of the student body and faculty while you're in law school should be quite a bit higher.

I hesitate to give my feedback re: the patent issue, because I am not pursuing patent law. But unless you have a sure job lined up for after law school, or unless your field-experience (or training) in the area you are combining with law will itself make you very desirable to employers, I think the Cornell degree could definitely make a difference. Maybe someone pursuing patent law can speak more on that though.

[3ThrowAway99]

... sry, double posted somehow..

[apollo13]

don't be a dozo be a bozo.

[ndirish2014]

Cornell. No question.

[rabbitgirl]

Thank you guys for the support on Cornell.

To answer Hawkeye

I'd vote Cornell, but this is especially true if the 'Dozo ride carries any stips. I believe I got an offer from them that was top 1/3rd, which was too rich for my blood.

as long as I'm not the bottom 20%, I can keep the full ride.

[paratactical]

Cardozo wouldn't be a terrible choice if you definitely wanted to do IP, but you'll have more options from Cornell, and it seems like that's what you want.

[BarbellDreams]

Cornell at sticker is like 200k, Dozo will cost you like 50k. Its a tough choice and both arguments can be made, but I kinda like Dozo, especially with your WE.

[bhan87]

Cornell. Full ride still = debt. You want to maximize your chances to get a job after graduation.

[thexfactor]

biglaw bozo~ 10%
Cornell ~40%.
Then factor in the difference in clerkships and midlaw.....
Day n night difference between the two schools.

The problem is that once you miss the biglaw boat, it is really really hard to get back onto the boat.
Plus there is the IBR and also IRAP program at Cornell.

[blsingindisguise]

I would never attend a school on the strength of its "IP Program". First, there's only so much a school can give you in this field. Every school is going to offer the same basic trademark, copyright and patent courses (and semi-related stuff like first amendment/mass media law). Every decent school will also have an array of IP seminars and advanced IP courses as well as clinics, and you can do IP-related externships coming from almost anywhere.

Second, law tends to be prestige-driven in a relatively straightforward way in that, for the most part, better overall credentials = more options. So the average Cornell kid with IP interest is probably more likely to wind up with a good IP job than the average Cardozo kid with IP interest even if Cardozo's "program" is ranked higher.

Third, IP is a very common interest coming into law school and many people who come in with that idea wind up changing it, either because they discover it's not all it's cracked up to be, they find something else they like, or just for practical reasons (difficulty of finding a job). So there's a good chance you won't wind up wanting to do it.

All that said, I don't think this is a no-brainer at all. You need to compare the total debt-loads you'll wind up with, look at the kind of loan payments that will translate to, consider what kind of living you need to earn to pay it off. Cornell at full price means a debt load that is VERY hard to pay off without a biglaw job (by which I mean V100, not NLJ 250).

[EDIT sorry I see you have a specific interest in patents and some knowledge of the field, so what I said about interests coming in probably doesn't apply to you]

[Robespierre]

My brother goes to Dozo and I've been a big supporter of the school in other threads. But you should go to Cornell. This is an Ivy League T14 vs. a fringe Tier 1 school; no comparison.

The vast difference between the schools is easily worth the extra cost of ~110K (Cornell tuition minus an amount representing the lower cost of living in Ithaca).

And I agree 100% with blsing's comments about the "IP Program." That program is a minor factor at best. And it's balanced out by this minor factor: With Cornell you'd be avoiding the problem of possible loss of the scholly. (Top 80% is not a tough stipulation, but you never know.)

[Aberzombie1892]

I vote Dozo.

Cornell at sticker will leave you in a bad place if you don't get big law, and your big law chances are pretty high in general if you are looking to do patent work, regardless of which school you attend.

True, Cornell is a lot more prestigious. But like another poster said, if you miss out on the added value of the Cornell degree by getting a mediocre first job (instead of a good one), you will never have another opportunity to take advantage of the prestige.

I believe that you will end up picking Cornell regardless of what anyone says, you are on tls.com (if nothing else). Nevertheless, choosing Cornell at sticker is nothing short of high stakes gambling.

[buckilaw]

I'd go with Cornell. You have a better upside and LRAP tempers your downside.

[arhmcpo]

I'd go with Cornell. You have a better upside and LRAP tempers your downside.

ITT we look forward to a future of LRAP sustenance.

[sbalive]

I'm an IP person (credibility!)

If you want patent prosecution small law/midlaw -- or any IP small/midlaw -- and you're willing to be geographically constrained to NYC + your market with the most ties, then Cardozo is a good choice here. If you go to Cornell and are 100% debt-financed, you won't be able to get there until doing about 3-5 years of post-grad BigLaw IP work depending on spousal income, savings rate, etc. That's the biggest trade-off here, so if it doesn't matter, then you should go to Cornell.

Cardozo does have a lot of opportunities for people interested in IP and law & technology -- but you have to be top 10-20% for that to be meaningful + to have a shot at BigLaw (a decent shot in a good economy, 50-50 or worse in a bad one). You can't totally chill out at Cornell, but you do have more room to be merely median-ish and do ok in terms of getting BigLaw. So, there's a trade-off in terms of pressure. If you want BigLaw & you think you're cool with massive debt hanging over your head for 3-5 years minimum, restricting your options accordingly, then go to Cornell. Otherwise, think hard. If you have savings, Cornell is an easier call.

[sbalive]

I'd go with Cornell. You have a better upside and LRAP tempers your downside.

These kinds of statements reflect near-total ignorance of how government & PI jobs actually work.