columbia v michigan Forum

[agora139]

SO. accepted at all 4. $67,500 of scholarship at michigan, sticker at the other 3 so far (trying to negotiate, but not anticipating success at nyu and columbia)

i have no idea what i want to do with my life--maybe biglaw, but i dont like the idea of feeling forced into it because of loans. also, dont know where i want to live--possibly nyc, but again, not positive.

duke is mostly out (not a fan of durham), but i thought i'd include it to be thorough.

suggestions please!

[Ship87]

I'd say Columbia because I'm going there and therefore totally biased!

Really though, if you haven't got any finaid offers at the other schools, Michigan is by far your best choice with the $$. Might be different if you got offers at other schools but as it is right now, the other schools arent worth $67k more than M.

[dabbadon8]

I am biased as well since I will be attending michigan.

However, 67k scholly + the difference in COA = ~ a 90k difference before interest. That is a ton of money to pass up especially without a particularly compelling reason. I think michigan with that money is a good balance between job prospects and debt load. Tough to pass on the prestige and ranking but probably worth it.

[tea_drinker]

I am biased as well since I will be attending michigan.

However, 67k scholly + the difference in COA = ~ a 90k difference before interest. That is a ton of money to pass up especially without a particularly compelling reason. I think michigan with that money is a good balance between job prospects and debt load. Tough to pass on the prestige and ranking but probably worth it.

Big +1 for this. Also, since you mentioned that you don't want to be forced into big law b/c of big debt, minimize debt with 67K from Michigan is a way to go.

[agora139]

ah i so appreciate the responses!

no one is of the opinion that 'debt is debt' and i might as well get what's perceived as 'the best' if im going to borrow for school? not necessarily my opinion, but one ive heard in favor of columbia/nyu..

[lakerfanimal]

ah i so appreciate the responses!

no one is of the opinion that 'debt is debt' and i might as well get what's perceived as 'the best' if im going to borrow for school? not necessarily my opinion, but one ive heard in favor of columbia/nyu..

I'm probably going to Columbia and I think this is a very questionable approach. If you're not sure what you want to do (like you) then just go to a great school and minimize your debt. If you already visited Michigan and think you'd be pretty happy then just go there.

[tea_drinker]

ah i so appreciate the responses!

no one is of the opinion that 'debt is debt' and i might as well get what's perceived as 'the best' if im going to borrow for school? not necessarily my opinion, but one ive heard in favor of columbia/nyu..

It really depends on how young you are and what some other factors are. For example, I would have picked Columbia if I am just 3 years younger and don't have the thought of settling down yet.

[birdlaw117]

I do have the opinion, to a certain degree, that 100k over a lifetime of earnings is relatively small (though not insignificant). However, a loss of potential career opportunities is not small. That said, I'm not sure the argument for Columbia or NYU over Michigan based on not having as many opportunities at Michigan holds a lot of water. I know you said you are trying to negotiate, and I think NYU is fairly receptive to negotiating. Good luck!

[cucullu]

In case it's helpful, I had an almost identical poll/thread going:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=152568

I thought people gave some really helpful commentary. Also, have you had a chance to visit any of these schools or to talk with current students on the phone? I know Columbia and Michigan both had students call me, and I found talking to them (with my list of questions ready) to be really informative and helpful.

(I know my poll is NYU/Mich with 67.5K but I had basically an identical decision as you - also in at Columbia but decided against it for career goal + fit reasons after ASW. But anyway, since it looks like we're same-shoes-bears, feel free to PM to discuss.)

[agora139]

I do have the opinion, to a certain degree, that 100k over a lifetime of earnings is relatively small (though not insignificant). However, a loss of potential career opportunities is not small. That said, I'm not sure the argument for Columbia or NYU over Michigan based on not having as many opportunities at Michigan holds a lot of water. I know you said you are trying to negotiate, and I think NYU is fairly receptive to negotiating. Good luck!

i will definitely try with NYU! and columbia, but they'll probably laugh in my face
i do feel, after the michigan ASW, that i wouldn't be giving up a hugely significant number of job opportunities etc by going to michigan. but the prestige of columbia does speak to me, as does being in ny -- another question is, is living in NYC for law school 'worth it' in the sense that i'll be paying for the benefits of new york (through sky-high rents and COL) but reaping very few of them (because, uh, i'll be in law school and studying all the time)? hmm...

[JG Hall]

another question is, is living in NYC for law school 'worth it' in the sense that i'll be paying for the benefits of new york (through sky-high rents and COL) but reaping very few of them (because, uh, i'll be in law school and studying all the time)? hmm...

Actually I would say another big advantage to being in New York (that's not actually talked about much) is the externships available through the school year. Off the top of my head, there are people at TV networks, record labels, 3/4 major sports front offices, UN, etc., in addition to the shitload gov (SEC, USAO) + PI (ACLU, a lot of outer-boro stuff) jobs and kids working at their 2L summer firm part time during 3L year. I'm not sure the same opportunities are available outside the classroom at Mich, but I could be wrong.

[bk1]

Take the money since you're unsure what you want to do. Michigan can definitely get you back to NYC.

[agora139]

still dont know. clock is ticking.

halp meeehh

[tea_drinker]

still dont know. clock is ticking.

halp meeehh

You seem like you are attracted by the prestige of Columbia, which I don't blame you. Columbia is famous for a reason. I mean after Judge Stevens retired, Judge Ginsburg is the only non-YHS grads that is currently on the bench. In addition, Columbia's lay prestige is arguably only after Harvard (I want to say georgetown too, but ppl may laugh at me).

Michigan is well known and 67K is a good chunk of money. But a Columbia degree itself is worth some money too. Go to your dream school, and don't let money influence your decision.

btw, have you visited Columbia?

[buckilaw]

I'd go with Mich for the $. But, I'm completely biased. Go Blue!

[vamedic03]

still dont know. clock is ticking.

halp meeehh

You seem like you are attracted by the prestige of Columbia, which I don't blame you. Columbia is famous for a reason. I mean after Judge Stevens retired, Judge Ginsburg is the only non-YHS grads that is currently on the bench. In addition, Columbia's lay prestige is arguably only after Harvard (I want to say georgetown too, but ppl may laugh at me).

Michigan is well known and 67K is a good chunk of money. But a Columbia degree itself is worth some money too. Go to your dream school, and don't let money influence your decision.

btw, have you visited Columbia?

I don't think that any of these are good reasons for taking on an additional 67k in debt.

[birdlaw117]

still dont know. clock is ticking.

halp meeehh

You seem like you are attracted by the prestige of Columbia, which I don't blame you. Columbia is famous for a reason. I mean after Judge Stevens retired, Judge Ginsburg is the only non-YHS grads that is currently on the bench. In addition, Columbia's lay prestige is arguably only after Harvard (I want to say georgetown too, but ppl may laugh at me).

Michigan is well known and 67K is a good chunk of money. But a Columbia degree itself is worth some money too. Go to your dream school, and don't let money influence your decision.

btw, have you visited Columbia?

I don't think that any of these are good reasons for taking on an additional 67k in debt.

I don't think 60k of debt over a lifetime of earnings is very material. To each his own.

[tea_drinker]

I don't think that any of these are good reasons for taking on an additional 67k in debt.

For the record, I don't think they are (see my first post above). But, I feel like OP really wants to go to Columbia and will enjoy living in NYC, which may be worth more than 67K in debt for him/her. In addition, picking Columbia over Michigan +67K is not that crazy.

[vamedic03]

still dont know. clock is ticking.

halp meeehh

You seem like you are attracted by the prestige of Columbia, which I don't blame you. Columbia is famous for a reason. I mean after Judge Stevens retired, Judge Ginsburg is the only non-YHS grads that is currently on the bench. In addition, Columbia's lay prestige is arguably only after Harvard (I want to say georgetown too, but ppl may laugh at me).

Michigan is well known and 67K is a good chunk of money. But a Columbia degree itself is worth some money too. Go to your dream school, and don't let money influence your decision.

btw, have you visited Columbia?

I don't think that any of these are good reasons for taking on an additional 67k in debt.

I don't think 60k of debt over a lifetime of earnings is very material. To each his own.

? because long term income will be that different coming out of Columbia versus Michigan? The only difference between the two schools is:

(a) Employers will go a little deeper into Columbia's class, and
(b) Higher Cost of Living and no 67k scholarship

There's just not enough difference between Columbia and Michigan to justify additional 67k in debt.

[birdlaw117]

I don't think 60k of debt over a lifetime of earnings is very material. To each his own.

? because long term income will be that different coming out of Columbia versus Michigan? The only difference between the two schools is:

(a) Employers will go a little deeper into Columbia's class, and
(b) Higher Cost of Living and no 67k scholarship

There's just not enough difference between Columbia and Michigan to justify additional 67k in debt.

In case you were wondering, the definition of immaterial is essentially irrelevant, so talking about differences doesn't really make sense. I'm also not saying that lifetime earning will be very different coming from the two, but I personally place a high value on happiness. If I think I would be happier at Columbia than at Michigan, I would have absolutely no problem paying 67k more.

[vamedic03]

I don't think 60k of debt over a lifetime of earnings is very material. To each his own.

? because long term income will be that different coming out of Columbia versus Michigan? The only difference between the two schools is:

(a) Employers will go a little deeper into Columbia's class, and
(b) Higher Cost of Living and no 67k scholarship

There's just not enough difference between Columbia and Michigan to justify additional 67k in debt.

In case you were wondering, the definition of immaterial is essentially irrelevant, so talking about differences doesn't really make sense. I'm also not saying that lifetime earning will be very different coming from the two, but I personally place a high value on happiness. If I think I would be happier at Columbia than at Michigan, I would have absolutely no problem paying 67k more.

Why are you lecturing me on the definition of immaterial?

[birdlaw117]

I don't think 60k of debt over a lifetime of earnings is very material. To each his own.

? because long term income will be that different coming out of Columbia versus Michigan? The only difference between the two schools is:

(a) Employers will go a little deeper into Columbia's class, and
(b) Higher Cost of Living and no 67k scholarship

There's just not enough difference between Columbia and Michigan to justify additional 67k in debt.

In case you were wondering, the definition of immaterial is essentially irrelevant, so talking about differences doesn't really make sense. I'm also not saying that lifetime earning will be very different coming from the two, but I personally place a high value on happiness. If I think I would be happier at Columbia than at Michigan, I would have absolutely no problem paying 67k more.

Why are you lecturing me on the definition of immaterial?

Why did you rebut a comment ending in "to each his own"?

[agora139]

oh dear god. i renamed the topic to my actual decision now. i DONT KNOW WHAT TO DOOOOO
i love michigan. but i am worried that if i dont go to columbia, i'll always have that in the back of my mind. BUT im scared of the debt of columbia, as well as with the prospect of being in new york while poor and studying all the time and i dont love the sense of community there.
why is this so hard???

[bk1]

oh dear god. i renamed the topic to my actual decision now. i DONT KNOW WHAT TO DOOOOO
i love michigan. but i am worried that if i dont go to columbia, i'll always have that in the back of my mind. BUT im scared of the debt of columbia, as well as with the prospect of being in new york while poor and studying all the time and i dont love the sense of community there.
why is this so hard???

Go to Michigan. When in doubt, follow the money.

[Non-Chalant1]

oh dear god. i renamed the topic to my actual decision now. i DONT KNOW WHAT TO DOOOOO
i love michigan. but i am worried that if i dont go to columbia, i'll always have that in the back of my mind. BUT im scared of the debt of columbia, as well as with the prospect of being in new york while poor and studying all the time and i dont love the sense of community there.
why is this so hard???

Go to Columbia....I'll be there LOL. In all seriousness though. Just based on the facebook group...the incoming class seems pretty chill. However, that money is hard to turn down. But I put a premium on happiness too...I think I might have chosen Columbia if I was in your shoes...but you don't even seem to like the "community" all that much.