UCLA vs UC-Irvine - equal COA Forum

[eateneye]

For some background, I am a person feverishly concerned about being able to find a good job straight out of law school (i'm married and want to be able to support my family comfortably if necessary). I'm not fixated on working in biglaw, but I want to make sure i'll have those options available when I graduate. At first, UCLA seemed easily the safer choice, but lately I've started to wonder if it might actually be easier to get work with the support of a small school with a good buzz and a rock-star dean that is desperate to make a name for itself versus a big(ger), name-brand, totally safe school that might not have as much invested in my post-grad career.

Another way of putting it: from a future career perspective, would it be crazy to pass up a top 20 for a potential top 20, especially if there's no price difference?

Or maybe you think they're equally good career choices and the other differences (class size, professor quality, etc) should carry more weight...

[arhmcpo]

As the early poll indicates, this decision is easier than your making it. UCI is on its way to being a great school - but even the people big on UCI and its potential don't suggest that it will pass up UCLA or rival it as a peer; the comparisons are to a UCD or UCH of socal. UCI might give you a smaller, more intimate experience; but from a purely job prospects perspective - they will be excellent out of UCLA. You will have your pick of jobs in the socal area with a UCLA law degree plus some good degree mobility as well. Congratulations on your acceptances, they are both great schools, but you really have to go with UCLA on this.

[Curry]

I dont care what you want to do, where you want to be, etc. Go to UCLA and never look back.

[bk1]

UCLA and it's not even close.

[Aberzombie1892]

I will fly out to CA myself, find you, and call you retarded if you pick UC-Irvine....and then politely ask you for a refund of my plane ticket, hotel accommodations, and food.

[bk1]

I will fly out to CA myself, find you, and call you retarded if you pick UC-Irvine....and then politely ask you for a refund of my plane ticket, hotel accommodations, and food.

You, I like you.

[eateneye]

Definitely informative to see a flood pro-UCLA responses and votes so quickly. If there is a UC-Irvine lurker (like the one guy who voted for UCI), speak up now or forever hold your peace...

[dpk711]

First, unequivocally UCLA (and this is coming from a trojan).
Second, whoever voted for UCI is an imbecile.

[tallboone]

You should probably go to UCLA. When you say "support my family" I think you probably mean "make a lot of money for my family," which is totally different. If you were looking to get a job other than biglaw, I think having the small, PI focused dean/career services of UCI could be a giant help. As of right now, UCI has great career prospects. By the time you graduate, you will be the third class I believe. Your class might still be fine, but eventually (i.e. when the half/full tuition scholarship students aren't there) UCI's LSAT/GPA medians are going to be exposed for what they are...

[bk1]

As of right now, UCI has great career prospects.

This seems ridiculously questionable considering they haven't actually graduated a class yet. They might have decent career prospects, but to say that they definitively have great ones? Fucking lol.

[tallboone]

No, I'm pretty sure their first couple of classes will have amazing career prospects, especially relative to the debt ratio. The fate of the school depends on it. Career services/professors/deans/janitors will be pulling strings to get kids jobs.

[dpk711]

No, I'm pretty sure their first couple of classes will have amazing career prospects, especially relative to the debt ratio. The fate of the school depends on it. Career services/professors/deans/janitors will be pulling strings to get kids jobs.

Empirical evidence? Also, the fate of any school depends on career prospects.

[src42]

Whoever voted for UCI is probably on UCLA's waitlist and wants your spot.

Go to UCLA.

[bk1]

No, I'm pretty sure their first couple of classes will have amazing career prospects, especially relative to the debt ratio. The fate of the school depends on it. Career services/professors/deans/janitors will be pulling strings to get kids jobs.

Their career prospects would have to be on par with USC/UCLA to be "amazing relative to the debt ratio" for the kids who got 1/2 tuition, and would have to on par with Davis/Hastings for the kids who got the full ride.

Unless you have the loosest definition of amazing that I've ever heard.

[eateneye]

Don't see that anyone has mentioned it on the forums yet, but UCI actually gave out a list at their admitted day of the jobs their 1L and 2Ls are doing in the upcoming summers. It just lists the places that the students are working and not how many are working there. There's roughly 30 law firms for the 2L class, most in orange county or LA. 1L only has one law firm mentioned and about 20 different judges (half federal/half state) There's a variety of public interest places too. I don't really have a sense of how impressive any of that is, but maybe someone on this forum knows more about it.

[thegreatk]

I am going to attend UCI, and I am awaiting responses from both UCLA and USC. I've decided I don't care.

My reasons: 4 to 1 faculty ratio, MUCH smaller classes, a top 10 faculty, great job prospects in socal, getting the chance to make my own reputation, and Chemerinsky.

Disclaimer: I did not vote UCI, I am the one "either way" vote. There is a certain culture of creation and innovation at UCI...if you don't get excited about the idea of building something new, the extra work will just seem like a waste of time. And seriously, you can't go wrong at this point.

Disclaimer 2: I am from a law family; parents are both attorneys and my Uncle is a well-known Law professor at Miami. They all said I would be insane to pass up the chance to go attend UCI, even over UCLA and USC. While I am less concerned about reputation and job prospects compared to the average law student, the fact that the attorneys in my family already have such a high regard for Irvine makes me want to never look back.

If you need to go to an internet poll to decide, and there isn't some unavoidable force pulling you towards UCI, UCLA may be the best place for you anyway.

[Blindmelon]

I am going to attend UCI, and I am awaiting responses from both UCLA and USC. I've decided I don't care.

Prob because its so late in the cycle that you won't get in anyway.

Chemerinsky.

Contrary to popular TLS belief, there are other professors out there, many of whom are also well-known, and teach at UCLA.

Disclaimer 2: I am from a law family; parents are both attorneys and my Uncle is a well-known Law professor at Miami. They all said I would be insane to pass up the chance to go attend UCI, even over UCLA and USC. While I am less concerned about reputation and job prospects compared to the average law student, the fact that the attorneys in my family already have such a high regard for Irvine makes me want to never look back.

My mom's uncle was Chemirinsky's dog-groomer, and he said he'd take UCLA over UCI even if UCI was cheaper and gave him a new set of grooming sheers.

The one thing UCI does have going for it is that the administration is in the unique position of wanting their graduates to succeed.

[Attorney]

would it be crazy to pass up a top 20 for a potential top 20, especially if there's no price difference?

No, not on its face, and not if you are going by USN alone. For instance, BC/BU (top 30) > WUSTL (top 20) for many. But then again, if you go by placement numbers BC/BU are then top 20, and WUSTL falls to the top 30.

But, since you are relating this to UCLA vs. UCI specifically.... it's wayy too early to call UCI a top 40 school, much less a potential top 20 school, whether the ranking is by job placement or US News. When UCI was giving every student a full scholarship, this would have almost made sense. At equal COA? You're kidding yourself that there is more than one logical choice. UCLA 1000 times out of 1000.

[red_alertz]

those who voted UCI are either trolls or on UCLA waitlist

[thegreatk]

I am going to attend UCI, and I am awaiting responses from both UCLA and USC. I've decided I don't care.

Prob because its so late in the cycle that you won't get in anyway.
Truth.

Chemerinsky.

Contrary to popular TLS belief, there are other professors out there, many of whom are also well-known, and teach at UCLA.

True, but I was more referring to him as a dean and his goals for the institution...but if faculty is in question, Irvine has the edge.

Disclaimer 2: I am from a law family; parents are both attorneys and my Uncle is a well-known Law professor at Miami. They all said I would be insane to pass up the chance to go attend UCI, even over UCLA and USC. While I am less concerned about reputation and job prospects compared to the average law student, the fact that the attorneys in my family already have such a high regard for Irvine makes me want to never look back.

My mom's uncle was Chemirinsky's dog-groomer, and he said he'd take UCLA over UCI even if UCI was cheaper and gave him a new set of grooming sheers.

It's an anecdote about my family; if your family members had experience in the field you wanted to practice, wouldn't you give weight to their opinions?
The one thing UCI does have going for it is that the administration is in the unique position of wanting their graduates to succeed.

I agree. I was impressed by their apparent determination (and the logic behind it) to land us jobs.

[uci2013]

I admit I am biased - I chose UCI and I am happy with my choice. I am big on the small school experience though after coming from a large state school for undergrad. Seriously though, while I recommend UCI you probably can't go wrong either way and it makes sense to choose the school you liked the most when you visited.

It's amazing how much community support UCI has. And students who wanted to work outside the region in other states have been able to do so, so I am fairly confident come the real job hunt time that I and my fellow students will be just fine.

But I think for you the decision should come down to big school v small school, maybe OC/San DIego vs LA - though students are being placed in LA without any problem, but you might also prefer law school in LA - I don't know, and then you have to decide if you like the idea of a structure in place, established traditions, a larger course selection etc or if you prefer institution building, little bureaucracy/responsive admin, and more innovative curriculum.

Also we have some great clinics for next year. Robert Solomon has come from Yale to start a community and economic development clinic, we have Sameer Asher from CUNY's highly regarded clinical program to head our immigration clinic, there will be an appellate advocacy and environmental law clinic. And in the spring we expect to have a international human rights clinic.

Oh and thegreatk was given similar advice to what one of our 1Ls was told last year. Both her parents are So Cal attys as well and advised her to attend Irvine.

Congrats on both acceptances and hope we see you next year at UCI!