CWRU v Temple etc Forum

[smockter]

CWRU w/modest scholarship v Temple @ sticker. Also admitted at DePaul, UNH (franklin pierce), KU, SLU and Syracuse, all with large scholarships. Interest in International and Cultural Property. Any advice welcome as d-day approaches.

[bk1]

Where do you want to work?

[Case2L]

I think you need to provide more info (such as geographic preferences, costs of each school, etc.) to get some helpful responses.

[smockter]

Geographically, I'm incredibly flexible. I'd just prefer a larger city for the diversity. I've figured total cost (3 years tuition + 3 years living expense + fees etc) Case = $150,650/ Temple = $155,214. I'd like to begin my career in a mid-larger sized private firm to get my feet wet. I like Philly and Chicago as cities, but I've heard career services at DePaul leaves a lot to be desired, so that was a huge turn off for DePaul. Temple seems to have a wide, global network as they have international campuses, but Case is higher ranked and (slightly) cheaper. Thanks, all

[claudenm]

Geographically, I'm incredibly flexible. I'd just prefer a larger city for the diversity. I've figured total cost (3 years tuition + 3 years living expense + fees etc) Case = $150,650/ Temple = $155,214. I'd like to begin my career in a mid-larger sized private firm to get my feet wet. I like Philly and Chicago as cities, but I've heard career services at DePaul leaves a lot to be desired, so that was a huge turn off for DePaul. Temple seems to have a wide, global network as they have international campuses, but Case is higher ranked and (slightly) cheaper. Thanks, all

You'll have less than a 10% job at making biglaw salary from Temple when you graduate.

[bk1]

Whichever school is cheapest/has the easiest scholarship stipulations since taking out more than 100k for any of these schools is a bad idea.

[smockter]

Any better stats coming out of case? I realize that I'm not likely to score a top firm since no school on my list has the heft of an ivy. I'm just looking for a little assurance that I'l be able to pass the bar and swing the loan payments after graduation. Basically looking for the best "value" school of the list.

[Justathought]

Geographically, I'm incredibly flexible. I'd just prefer a larger city for the diversity. I've figured total cost (3 years tuition + 3 years living expense + fees etc) Case = $150,650/ Temple = $155,214. I'd like to begin my career in a mid-larger sized private firm to get my feet wet. I like Philly and Chicago as cities, but I've heard career services at DePaul leaves a lot to be desired, so that was a huge turn off for DePaul. Temple seems to have a wide, global network as they have international campuses, but Case is higher ranked and (slightly) cheaper. Thanks, all

You'll have less than a 10% job at making biglaw salary from Temple when you graduate.

That also goes for any of the other schools on this list. In fact, that goes for all but around 22-25 law schools - at most. So, the question is, can you handle the debt? I would pick one of your scholarship options if the answer is no. If you aren't worried about debt, I would pick Temple over Case. The cost is the same, the ranking is equal, and Temple seems to offer slightly better employment prospects, is in a more exciting location, and has quite a few well regarded programs.

[bk1]

Any better stats coming out of case? I realize that I'm not likely to score a top firm since no school on my list has the heft of an ivy. I'm just looking for a little assurance that I'l be able to pass the bar and swing the loan payments after graduation. Basically looking for the best "value" school of the list.

Passing the bar will be on you, not the school.

My point of keeping costs down by going to the cheapest school is that if you can keep your debt around 100k or less, you have the possibility of paying it off within 10 years assuming you get a normal starting salary for these schools (in the 30-60k/year range).

[Justathought]

Any better stats coming out of case? I realize that I'm not likely to score a top firm since no school on my list has the heft of an ivy. I'm just looking for a little assurance that I'l be able to pass the bar and swing the loan payments after graduation. Basically looking for the best "value" school of the list.

Passing the bar will be on you, not the school.

My point of keeping costs down by going to the cheapest school is that if you can keep your debt around 100k or less, you have the possibility of paying it off within 10 years assuming you get a normal starting salary for these schools (in the 30-60k/year range).

I agree with bk. One thing that's good about Temple though, is that assuming you miss out on biglaw, Temple probably has the best in roads to Philly PD and DA positions. That would let you IBR your debt for ten years and get out from under it early. That's in addition to other public interest opportunities which will be available.

[Case2L]

OP, I know you prefer a larger city environment, but are you open to Kansas? Of all the schools you listed, it's really the only one that truly dominates it's legal market. If you say you have a decent scholarship to KU, I think that is your best bet in terms of minimizing debt and finding legal employment. If you absolutely must choose b/t Case & Temple, I'll say Case b/c the cost of living is incredibly cheap in Cleveland, and Case has less competition in Northeast Ohio than Temple does in Philly.

[smockter]

OP, I know you prefer a larger city environment, but are you open to Kansas? Of all the schools you listed, it's really the only one that truly dominates it's legal market. If you say you have a decent scholarship to KU, I think that is your best bet in terms of minimizing debt and finding legal employment. If you absolutely must choose b/t Case & Temple, I'll say Case b/c the cost of living is incredibly cheap in Cleveland, and Case has less competition in Northeast Ohio than Temple does in Philly.

I have considered KU, but Lawrence is tiny and I be willing to bet that the only employment prospects would be in KC. While I love KC (did undergrad there and lots of friends still live there), I'm not sure that there's a lot of mobility from there. Anyone have thoughts on that?

[smockter]

OP, I know you prefer a larger city environment, but are you open to Kansas? Of all the schools you listed, it's really the only one that truly dominates it's legal market. If you say you have a decent scholarship to KU, I think that is your best bet in terms of minimizing debt and finding legal employment. If you absolutely must choose b/t Case & Temple, I'll say Case b/c the cost of living is incredibly cheap in Cleveland, and Case has less competition in Northeast Ohio than Temple does in Philly.

How is the mobility from Case? Is putting a seat deposit in a life sentence in OH?

[HeavenWood]

I agree with bk. One thing that's good about Temple though, is that assuming you miss out on biglaw, Temple probably has the best in roads to Philly PD and DA positions. That would let you IBR your debt for ten years and get out from under it early. That's in addition to other public interest opportunities which will be available.

I agree. However, paying $150,000+ for these opportunities is probably a bad idea.

[claudenm]

Geographically, I'm incredibly flexible. I'd just prefer a larger city for the diversity. I've figured total cost (3 years tuition + 3 years living expense + fees etc) Case = $150,650/ Temple = $155,214. I'd like to begin my career in a mid-larger sized private firm to get my feet wet. I like Philly and Chicago as cities, but I've heard career services at DePaul leaves a lot to be desired, so that was a huge turn off for DePaul. Temple seems to have a wide, global network as they have international campuses, but Case is higher ranked and (slightly) cheaper. Thanks, all

You'll have less than a 10% job at making biglaw salary from Temple when you graduate.

That also goes for any of the other schools on this list. In fact, that goes for all but around 22-25 law schools - at most. So, the question is, can you handle the debt? I would pick one of your scholarship options if the answer is no. If you aren't worried about debt, I would pick Temple over Case. The cost is the same, the ranking is equal, and Temple seems to offer slightly better employment prospects, is in a more exciting location, and has quite a few well regarded programs.

I agree, I'm just trying to point out he his taking out $155,000 for a 10% opportunity to get a job that can service that debt. A loan payment (assuming all stafford, which can't be the case) is 1,783.75. Just doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

Any better stats coming out of case? I realize that I'm not likely to score a top firm since no school on my list has the heft of an ivy. I'm just looking for a little assurance that I'l be able to pass the bar and swing the loan payments after graduation. Basically looking for the best "value" school of the list.

Passing the bar will be on you, not the school.

My point of keeping costs down by going to the cheapest school is that if you can keep your debt around 100k or less, you have the possibility of paying it off within 10 years assuming you get a normal starting salary for these schools (in the 30-60k/year range).

I agree with bk. One thing that's good about Temple though, is that assuming you miss out on biglaw, Temple probably has the best in roads to Philly PD and DA positions. That would let you IBR your debt for ten years and get out from under it early. That's in addition to other public interest opportunities which will be available.

The Philly D.A.'s office completely rescinded all offers two years ago, class of 2009. They are hiring 1-2 people per year right now, and still operating on a budget that is six million dollars less than it was in 2008. The 2011 budget is budgeted for 3 new D.A. positions (Mayor's proposed Budget, Section 39). So yeah, maybe Temple gives you great access, but they are only hiring 3 people. Probably not worth $155,000.

[HeavenWood]

Geographically, I'm incredibly flexible. I'd just prefer a larger city for the diversity. I've figured total cost (3 years tuition + 3 years living expense + fees etc) Case = $150,650/ Temple = $155,214. I'd like to begin my career in a mid-larger sized private firm to get my feet wet. I like Philly and Chicago as cities, but I've heard career services at DePaul leaves a lot to be desired, so that was a huge turn off for DePaul. Temple seems to have a wide, global network as they have international campuses, but Case is higher ranked and (slightly) cheaper. Thanks, all

You'll have less than a 10% job at making biglaw salary from Temple when you graduate.

That also goes for any of the other schools on this list. In fact, that goes for all but around 22-25 law schools - at most. So, the question is, can you handle the debt? I would pick one of your scholarship options if the answer is no. If you aren't worried about debt, I would pick Temple over Case. The cost is the same, the ranking is equal, and Temple seems to offer slightly better employment prospects, is in a more exciting location, and has quite a few well regarded programs.

I agree, I'm just trying to point out he his taking out $155,000 for a 10% opportunity to get a job that can service that debt.

It's probably closer to 20-25%. Philly has a fair number of MidLaws that pay closer to market (~125k). But even then, paying $155,000 for a one in four shot at gainful employment is a mighty gamble.

[Case2L]

How is the mobility from Case? Is putting a seat deposit in a life sentence in OH?

It seems to be more mobile than similarly ranked schools (approximately half of my class that I keep in touch with left Ohio after graduation.) A lot of displaced East Coast people come to Case, so a lot of grads go to NY and DC. It's not a life sentence, but you should be okay with the strong possibility of spending a couple of years in Ohio since that is where Case places the best.