Whittier or Thomas Jefferson? Forum

[Case2L]

Have you lived in Canada? I'm actually from Toronto, which is actually a great city, but I went to Berkeley, and I love California, and it's been my home for 5 years now, so I want to stay...okay, so I retake my LSAT and do marginally better, get into better schools I still can't afford.....alternatives?

Here are TEN alternatives, some better than others, but they exist, and they will all get you to a better law school:
1) Work for a few years, save a ton of money to make up the loan difference
2) Retake the LSAT and do significantly better and apply somewhere that gives you a full ride
3) Retake and reapply and do somewhat better and apply somewhere that gives you enough to be covered by your limited loan
4) Find someone, an employer, relative, homeless person, to co-sign, and go somewhere else
5) Go back to Berkeley, get a graduate degree, then apply somewhere else
6) Marry an American, get better loan options
7) Get a significant other, and have him or her co-sign
8 ) Go to a Canadian law school
9) Join Teach For America or the Peace Corps or whatever, do service for two years, come back, have better options
10) Move to Montana, live in the Bob Marshall Wilderness for a year, clear your head, then choose one of the above

Thought about it, and still an option, but I can kiss California goodbye

Do you think you could get into a Canadian law school? If so, I don't see why you could not move back to CA and take the Bar there. California lets people that attend online law schools sit for the bar; I'm sure you can be admitted with a Canadian JD or LLB. I'm no expert on Canadian law schools, but I'm pretty sure all of them are more prestigious than Whittier or Thomas Jefferson.

[2things2]

I still don't understand why OP can't at least retake in June.

[AP-375]

I still don't understand why OP can't at least retake in June.

2) Possibility, but I'm 4 months removed from LSAT mode, so this is a last resort.

OP can, but, you know, it's like, a "last resort"

[arhmcpo]

Have you lived in Canada? I'm actually from Toronto, which is actually a great city, but I went to Berkeley, and I love California, and it's been my home for 5 years now, so I want to stay...okay, so I retake my LSAT and do marginally better, get into better schools I still can't afford.....alternatives?

Here are TEN alternatives, some better than others, but they exist, and they will all get you to a better law school:
1) Work for a few years, save a ton of money to make up the loan difference
2) Retake the LSAT and do significantly better and apply somewhere that gives you a full ride
3) Retake and reapply and do somewhat better and apply somewhere that gives you enough to be covered by your limited loan
4) Find someone, an employer, relative, homeless person, to co-sign, and go somewhere else
5) Go back to Berkeley, get a graduate degree, then apply somewhere else
6) Marry an American, get better loan options
7) Get a significant other, and have him or her co-sign
8 ) Go to a Canadian law school
9) Join Teach For America or the Peace Corps or whatever, do service for two years, come back, have better options
10) Move to Montana, live in the Bob Marshall Wilderness for a year, clear your head, then choose one of the above

Haha, great list...

1) Working in the US is contingent upon me getting an H1B visa...I'm working on it
2) Possibility, but I'm 4 months removed from LSAT mode, so this is a last resort
3) TJ and Whittier do cover my costs, and even if I did marginally better, not much money would be available from better schools
4) If it were that easy, I wouldn't be in this problem. You want to co-sign?
5) That would cost a boat load of money...no point
6) Marriage...already an enormous headache when you do it legally, let alone illegally
7) Same as 6
Thought about it, and still an option, but I can kiss California goodbye
9) Teach For America is harder to get into than law school
10) Good one.

Yeah I believe you can take the CA bar without having attended law school. Partly what contributes to the terrible passage rate + the fact that it is the hardest bar exam in the country.

[BeautifulSW]

Hardest Bar in the country? Well, certainly one of the hardest...New York has a bad reputation too as does Texas.

But it isn't just the non-ABA grads taking the California that reduces the pass rate. It's also that there are so many ABA law schools in California that some are compelled to accept more poorly prepared students. Take a look at a couple of years' worth of statistics and you'll see. Pass rates from the UC schools, Stanford, U.S.C., Pepperdine, and a couple of others virtually never dip below 85%. Other schools, among them Whittier, Golden Gate, and Western State, rarely see pass rates exceeding 75% and often dip well below that.

A well-prepared student entering a T1 or T2 ABA approved California law school has about as good a chance of passing the California Bar on the first attempt as any other well-prepared student in any other state.

[seriously????]

Hardest Bar in the country? Well, certainly one of the hardest...New York has a bad reputation too as does Texas.

But it isn't just the non-ABA grads taking the California that reduces the pass rate. It's also that there are so many ABA law schools in California that some are compelled to accept more poorly prepared students. Take a look at a couple of years' worth of statistics and you'll see. Pass rates from the UC schools, Stanford, U.S.C., Pepperdine, and a couple of others virtually never dip below 85%. Other schools, among them Whittier, Golden Gate, and Western State, rarely see pass rates exceeding 75% and often dip well below that.

A well-prepared student entering a T1 or T2 ABA approved California law school has about as good a chance of passing the California Bar on the first attempt as any other well-prepared student in any other state.

but isnt the CA pass rate something like 45%? So with the schools of T1 and T2 with 85%, mixed in with T3T4 who are 65-70%, you still obviously have a ton of people making the overall bar rate drop that low.

[Justathought]

I'm fairly certain you don't even have to go to law school to take the California bar. I think California is one of the only states left that lets you "read" for the law. I think that process takes about 4 years, and is done under the supervision of a judge or practicing attorney. Seems like a real pain in the neck, and very few people go this route, but its possible. All sorts of shenanigans take place in CA, so the bar there is exclusionary in nature. That's why its considered so difficult; they are trying to keep people out.

[BeautifulSW]

Not if you look at individual schools. The UC system schools and the T1 privates run around 80% pass rate over the years. That's my point.

All these statistics are available at the Calbar web site. http://www.calbar.ca.gov

[greg737]

I was pretty much expecting these responses from TLS users, all doom and gloom, "top 14 or bust", and these are valid points, something I grapple with myself. I actually didn't do poorly on my LSAT and have gotten into much better schools, but I have no way of paying for them. Would you like to co-sign on my 200k loan? As a Canadian citizen, I can't get a US loan, and Canadian banks only give out 80k max (27k per year of school).

Let's say I pass the bar and graduate top 5-10% of my class, just a hypothetical...are my prospects looking any better? I also think graduating with 50-70k of debt rather than 150-200k of debt is an advantage too, no?

Not trying to be a dick or anything, but if you love living and California and want to remain living here, why don't you just become a U.S. citizen? Then you can get a U.S. loan and go to a better school? Don't know if you'd have to give up your Canadian status to do that, but wouldn't that take care of your issue?

[seriously????]

I was pretty much expecting these responses from TLS users, all doom and gloom, "top 14 or bust", and these are valid points, something I grapple with myself. I actually didn't do poorly on my LSAT and have gotten into much better schools, but I have no way of paying for them. Would you like to co-sign on my 200k loan? As a Canadian citizen, I can't get a US loan, and Canadian banks only give out 80k max (27k per year of school).

Let's say I pass the bar and graduate top 5-10% of my class, just a hypothetical...are my prospects looking any better? I also think graduating with 50-70k of debt rather than 150-200k of debt is an advantage too, no?

Not trying to be a dick or anything, but if you love living and California and want to remain living here, why don't you just become a U.S. citizen? Then you can get a U.S. loan and go to a better school? Don't know if you'd have to give up your Canadian status to do that, but wouldn't that take care of your issue?

valid point, but prolly much easier said than done.

[JRoFL]

TJ may have I bad rep in many respects (especially on TLS) but their new building is amazing and I have heard some of the summer internships students have snagged this year and they are all really good.


Try asking for more money, it couldn't hurt and may make your decision easier.