Please give me an overview of North East T3/T4 schools Forum

[johnnysweet]

Can anyone give me a run down of the T3/T4 schools in the NYC/PHILLY area as these will be most of the schools I apply to. The low T2 schools will be my reach schools

[FuManChusco]

*reads OP*

*reads web address*

*reads OP again*

[mettasutta]

This thread is not going to end well. Honestly, schools like Touro, NYLS, Pace etc. are not worth it without a full scholarship with lenient stipulations (i.e. good standing) AND a relative or a close friend guaranteeing you a job upon graduation. They are on the bottom of the totem pole in their market and are wildly expensive on top of that. If median students at Fordham (a T30) are struggling, I shudder to think of the prospects of those attending such schools at full cost and without connections.

[YourCaptain]

This thread is not going to end well. Honestly, schools like Touro, NYLS, Pace etc. are not worth it without a full scholarship with lenient stipulations (i.e. good standing) AND a relative or a close friend guaranteeing you a job upon graduation. They are on the bottom of the totem pole in their market and are wildly expensive on top of that. If median students at Fordham (a T30) are struggling, I shudder to think of the prospects of those attending such schools at full cost and without connections.

In general I agree but even with a full-scholarship without stipulations it is questionable whether the cost is worth it; you still have costs of attendance to factor in and the opportunity cost (3 years) is significant.

[Fred_McGriff]

TTT or TTTT might not be a bad idea in a big isolated state where they dominate the legal market, but it's almost always going to be a terrible idea in a major urban area with lots of competition. The Boston to DC corridor is the most population dense and competitive area in the US with dozens upon dozens of schools in the first and second tier. You certainly can succeed out of a TTT or TTTT but the odds of you doing so are a lot lower in that region than almost anywhere else in the US. If you're going to a TTT or TTTT, keep it someplace like Mississippi, South Carolina, Montana, Idaho, the Dakotas, or someplace else with big time local name recognition / community ties and small time outside competition.

[JamMasterJ]

TTT or TTTT might not be a bad idea in a big isolated state where they dominate the legal market, but it's almost always going to be a terrible idea in a major urban area with lots of competition. The Boston to DC corridor is the most population dense and competitive area in the US with dozens upon dozens of schools in the first and second tier. You certainly can succeed out of a TTT or TTTT but the odds of you doing so are a lot lower in that region than almost anywhere else in the US. If you're going to a TTT or TTTT, keep it someplace like Mississippi, South Carolina, Montana, Idaho, the Dakotas, or someplace else with big time local name recognition / community ties and small time outside competition.

titcr

[buckilaw]

Can anyone give me a run down of the T3/T4 schools in the NYC/PHILLY area as these will be most of the schools I apply to. The low T2 schools will be my reach schools

http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/

Enjoy.

[chalhou1]

Can anyone give me a run down of the T3/T4 schools in the NYC/PHILLY area as these will be most of the schools I apply to. The low T2 schools will be my reach schools

http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/

Enjoy.

horrible site, doesn't give us any info that we didn't already know and every pOst is the same

[beach_terror]

Don't go to Widener. That's about all I got.

[johnnysweet]

[quote="Fred_McGriff"]TTT or TTTT might not be a bad idea in a big isolated state where they dominate the legal market, but it's almost always going to be a terrible idea in a major urban area with lots of competition. The Boston to DC corridor is the most population dense and competitive area in the US with dozens upon dozens of schools in the first and second tier. You certainly can succeed out of a TTT or TTTT but the odds of you doing so are a lot lower in that region than almost anywhere else in the US. If you're going to a TTT or TTTT, keep it someplace like Mississippi, South Carolina, Montana, Idaho, the Dakotas, or someplace else with big time local name recognition / community ties and small time outside competition.[/quote)

What about the fact that it is the only school in harrisburg, or even within a 2hr drive.
I mean it is the capital of one of the nations most populated states

[Attorney]

Can anyone give me a run down of the T3/T4 schools in the NYC/PHILLY area as these will be most of the schools I apply to. The low T2 schools will be my reach schools

Retake. (Or get better at the LSAT before you take it the fist time.)

I got into plenty of T1 schools after being in probably the bottom 10% to 15% of my college graduating class. Like many in your situation (which I assume is the world of 2.X GPAs) I even got a $120,000s scholarship at one T1 (#23).

There's absolutely no good reason to go to a T3/T4 school without a full scholarship.

[adevotchka]

What about the fact that it is the only school in harrisburg, or even within a 2hr drive.
I mean it is the capital of one of the nations most populated states

I went to school very close to Widener and can vouch for the fact that it is definitely one of the worse options. Despite its location, Dickinson (Penn State) grads dominate that market, and then Temple and Pitt. Also, I feel like I met as met as many Widener grads employed there as I did UPenn ones...

[paratactical]

What about the fact that it is the only school in harrisburg, or even within a 2hr drive.
I mean it is the capital of one of the nations most populated states

You still have to live in Harrisburg.

[adevotchka]

What about the fact that it is the only school in harrisburg, or even within a 2hr drive.
I mean it is the capital of one of the nations most populated states

You still have to live in Harrisburg.

For any potential Widener grads worried about securing employment, CP's REPTILELAND is only a stone's throw from H-Burg, hires "summer associates," and is an awesome place to work.

--ImageRemoved--

[johnnysweet]

What about the fact that it is the only school in harrisburg, or even within a 2hr drive.
I mean it is the capital of one of the nations most populated states

You still have to live in Harrisburg.

For any potential Widener grads worried about securing employment, CP's REPTILELAND is only a stone's throw from H-Burg, hires "summer associates," and is an awesome place to work.

--ImageRemoved--

Awesome! at least there is a subway in the gift shop. I can save money on food and find employment in the same spot!

[johnnysweet]

But really i have a whole other post about widener...

I really want to know what my options in the area, provided that i can't get into a t2 school. (as far as I know t1 is out of my reach)

[seriously????]

i do agree with the post that one should goto a T3/T4 only with a full ride, or a guaranteed job, or very nice financial assistance from the family.

however, what's the sentiment about getting a full ride with or without stipulations?

if you get accepted to T1 and T2 schools with money, that obviously means that your stats are not horrible. It most likely means your LSAT is leaps and bounds above the 152ish median at these T3/4 schools. Sure, T1 schools don't really give stipulations, but if you get a full ride and all you have to do is be top 30% is that really the most difficult thing in the world?

I think these T3/4 schools give out full scholarships not to improve their stats (because they give out few of them), but to target students where they think they can be successful in school, thus successful careerwise, and improving the schools reputation (or at least saying that at least one person made it). Also, if you can't get top 30% at a T3/T4 school, you are most certainly screwed there, but isn't it fair to assume that if you were to attend a T1 or T2 you also would not be in the top 30%. And with the added debt and still lack of job prospects, you are also screwed?

am I crazy? I got a half scholarship at WUSTL, and I still think the stress to land top 10% and be forced into biglaw to pay off my 100k loan is much higher than keeping a top 30% full ride at a T3/4, where if you keep the scholly, in the end no matter what, you are a JD with no debt. (and trust me, with WUSTL i am not from the midwest, not an engineer or MBA, nor have any current biglaw connects, so yes, I would definitely have to make top 10% to sleep at nite).

[johnnysweet]

good point

[seriously????]

What about the fact that it is the only school in harrisburg, or even within a 2hr drive.
I mean it is the capital of one of the nations most populated states

You still have to live in Harrisburg.

For any potential Widener grads worried about securing employment, CP's REPTILELAND is only a stone's throw from H-Burg, hires "summer associates," and is an awesome place to work.

--ImageRemoved--

Come on, you arent' even going to a T14. Dozo, Tulane at half scholly, or emory/fordham at sticker? I would pay for none of those options. perhaps you should consider applying to a T4. whatever, its your choice, but don't hate on schools when you aren't even going to one of the good ones.

[johnnysweet]

What do you think about franklin pierce for ip?

[Rule11]

What do you think about franklin pierce for ip?

If "IP" stands for "immediately permafucked" then I think it delivers in spades.

[seriously????]

apparently they do place some high paying IP gigs in NYC, but I would assume the people with IP have a lot of prior experience.

and it is the only school in NH, so if you wanted to practice there, it could not be too bad. And yes I know that plenty of schools from boston prolly place there, but if you want to be a small town lawyer in NH, its not the worst decision.

[alumniguy]

i do agree with the post that one should goto a T3/T4 only with a full ride, or a guaranteed job, or very nice financial assistance from the family.

however, what's the sentiment about getting a full ride with or without stipulations?

if you get accepted to T1 and T2 schools with money, that obviously means that your stats are not horrible. It most likely means your LSAT is leaps and bounds above the 152ish median at these T3/4 schools. Sure, T1 schools don't really give stipulations, but if you get a full ride and all you have to do is be top 30% is that really the most difficult thing in the world?

I think these T3/4 schools give out full scholarships not to improve their stats (because they give out few of them), but to target students where they think they can be successful in school, thus successful careerwise, and improving the schools reputation (or at least saying that at least one person made it). Also, if you can't get top 30% at a T3/T4 school, you are most certainly screwed there, but isn't it fair to assume that if you were to attend a T1 or T2 you also would not be in the top 30%. And with the added debt and still lack of job prospects, you are also screwed?

am I crazy? I got a half scholarship at WUSTL, and I still think the stress to land top 10% and be forced into biglaw to pay off my 100k loan is much higher than keeping a top 30% full ride at a T3/4, where if you keep the scholly, in the end no matter what, you are a JD with no debt. (and trust me, with WUSTL i am not from the midwest, not an engineer or MBA, nor have any current biglaw connects, so yes, I would definitely have to make top 10% to sleep at nite).

No you're not crazy. 1/2 at WUSTL is a gamble given the reduced demand in biglaw hiring. Is it a gamble that many people are willing to take, certainly. We aren't talking winning the lottery gamble, but getting a good job isn't guaranteed either.

You could also go to a T3/T4 on a full ride with stipulations - at least for the first year. Here is the thing, if you are going to a T3/T4 and can't keep that scholly after your first year, then you're probably not cut out to be a lawyer. Period. I can guarantee you that if you can't keep the scholly at at T3/T4, you likely never would have made it anywhere in T1. At a top 30 school, where you have mostly 160+ LSAT students, it is very hard for the admissions departments to determine which students are going to be at the top of the class after their first year. There simply is very little correlation between higher LSAT and higher class rank (when dealing with students that are so closely bunched together). At a T3/T4, if you were able to get a full ride, you either had a great GPA or a great LSAT score and this is probably indicative that you do well in comparison to the average student at T3/T4.

Which is the better option? It really depends on the person. But taking on $100k just to have a shot at biglaw so you can pay back the debt you incurred in order to get the biglaw job is just plain stupid. Do you think you may like biglaw? If so, then it may not be such a bad choice to take on $100k in debt. But either way, if you are going to law school only because you think you're going to make some cash and you don't get a full ride at a T1, then you're sorely mistaken.

There are far better career choices that offer stability and decent pay than law, especially if you don't have the passion to work your ass off both in law school and once you start practicing. Law school is work. Practicing law is even more work.

[framboozer]

TTT or TTTT might not be a bad idea in a big isolated state where they dominate the legal market, but it's almost always going to be a terrible idea in a major urban area with lots of competition. The Boston to DC corridor is the most population dense and competitive area in the US with dozens upon dozens of schools in the first and second tier. You certainly can succeed out of a TTT or TTTT but the odds of you doing so are a lot lower in that region than almost anywhere else in the US. If you're going to a TTT or TTTT, keep it someplace like Mississippi, South Carolina, Montana, Idaho, the Dakotas, or someplace else with big time local name recognition / community ties and small time outside competition.[/quote)

What about the fact that it is the only school in harrisburg, or even within a 2hr drive.
I mean it is the capital of one of the nations most populated states

But it's most definitely not the only school within a 2 hour drive of Harrisburg. I live outside of Northeast Philly and go to undergrad at Penn State University Park and both of Penn State's law school campuses (University Park and Carlisle) are within 2 hours of Harrisburg. Plus Philadelphia and all of its schools are also within 2 hours of Harrisburg.

[YourCaptain]

apparently they do place some high paying IP gigs in NYC, but I would assume the people with IP have a lot of prior experience.

and it is the only school in NH, so if you wanted to practice there, it could not be too bad. And yes I know that plenty of schools from boston prolly place there, but if you want to be a small town lawyer in NH, its not the worst decision.

More than UNH would like to admit.

People with NH/MA even RI ties at better schools will dominate the hell out of UNH grads.