BU, W&M, Wake, Cardozo, Uconn Forum

[mcgillgrad10]

At a loss of where to go in the decision process. Thinking I want to end up in NY, CT, MA region, but it's just a hunch nothing really set in stone.

I'm really having trouble deciphering where to go based on monetary reasons, ranking, and job placement location. No real desire for BigLaw, more looking toward debt aversion but decent job prospects.

Any help/opinions would be appreciated. Thanks

Scholarships per year listed.

[AP-375]

I said W&M because of your debt aversion (cheapest option) and because you're not gunning for Biglaw, which would be the only reason to justify BU for sticker in this instance (IMO).
I'm also biased because there's a 50/50 chance I'm headed to W&M.

[mcgillgrad10]

thanks, appreciate the advice. I'm heading down to W&M this weekend for the ASW, hoping to get a better feel for the school/area

[snapdragon]

PMed you the long version. Short version, I have a similar (less options) choice and I'd take W&M in a heartbeat.

[bigkahuna2020]

W and M isn't great in the Northeast, but Cardozo in very NYC centric (doesn't seem to have any pull in MA or CT---but neither does W and M)

Are you In State anywhere?

[flexityflex86]

BU, not that close. Not that BU is worth sticker, but rather because the other options aren't great.

Much more of Cardozo is unemployed than admissions lets on.

UConn probably isn't even as good as Cardozo on it's own, and you're paying a lot more to go there.

Wake is not good for the northeast. W&M is also not good, and I think BU is worth the extra 20k/yr given your goals.

I kind of wish you'd have applied to BC also so we'd have something to play with here. I'm assuming you got rejected at Fordham?

[flexityflex86]

W and M isn't great in the Northeast, but Cardozo in very NYC centric (doesn't seem to have any pull in MA or CT---but neither does W and M)

Are you In State anywhere?

the issue is Cardozo is NYC centric, but not pulling much there. Fordham grads are struggling so I def. wouldn't trust Cardozo.

[bigkahuna2020]

While I'm not 100% sure, from what I can tell, in PI, small law and JD-preferred financial positions, Cardozo seems to be doing alright. You have to be ready to work in NYC and NYC alone though.

[bigkahuna2020]

Much more of Cardozo is unemployed than admissions lets on.

You could say that about any school ranked 7 on down.

[mcgillgrad10]

BU, not that close. Not that BU is worth sticker, but rather because the other options aren't great.

Much more of Cardozo is unemployed than admissions lets on.

UConn probably isn't even as good as Cardozo on it's own, and you're paying a lot more to go there.

Wake is not good for the northeast. W&M is also not good, and I think BU is worth the extra 20k/yr given your goals.

I kind of wish you'd have applied to BC also so we'd have something to play with here. I'm assuming you got rejected at Fordham?

Didn't apply to Fordham. Still waiting on BC which has been my first choice all along, but haven't heard from them yet. The only reason Uconn over Cardozo is 0 cost of living versus Cardozo and living in NYC.

[mcgillgrad10]

W and M isn't great in the Northeast, but Cardozo in very NYC centric (doesn't seem to have any pull in MA or CT---but neither does W and M)

Are you In State anywhere?

In-state at Uconn, no cost of living due to parents.

[bigkahuna2020]

Go there----you like I had the benefit of living in the 514 for 4 years, but I would basically make it between UConn and Cardozo if you don't want biglaw. I would calculate your debt at ~85k at Cardozo, if you are smart and live in North Jersey or Brooklyn with roommates---on the high end but manageable and this assumes no part time position or summer positions that pay or have a stipend, which probably you will have at least once

BU is an option if you want government (seems to place well) but their LRAP is terrible, especially now that Cardozo just got a 5 million dollar donation to theirs

[bigkahuna2020]

And remember, you don't have to live in Manhattan for Cardozo (I actually know not one NYU or Cardozo grad student that does)

You are near the PATH to Jersey City and Hoboken, all the EXPRESS subway lines (123, NRQ, the L, the 456 and a bit of a longer (2.5 long blocks) from the ACE)

http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&rl ... 7888037717

Also, could you commute in from Connecticut?

[mcgillgrad10]

And remember, you don't have to live in Manhattan for Cardozo (I actually know not one NYU or Cardozo grad student that does)

You are near the PATH to Jersey City and Hoboken, all the EXPRESS subway lines (123, NRQ, the L, the 456 and a bit of a longer (2.5 long blocks) from the ACE)

http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&rl ... 7888037717

Also, could you commute in from Connecticut?

Couldn't commute from CT, I live right by Uconn Law in W. Hartford. Thanks for the input though, greatly appreciated.

[bigkahuna2020]

And remember, you don't have to live in Manhattan for Cardozo (I actually know not one NYU or Cardozo grad student that does)

You are near the PATH to Jersey City and Hoboken, all the EXPRESS subway lines (123, NRQ, the L, the 456 and a bit of a longer (2.5 long blocks) from the ACE)

http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&rl ... 7888037717

Also, could you commute in from Connecticut?

Couldn't commute from CT, I live right by Uconn Law in W. Hartford. Thanks for the input though, greatly appreciated.

No problem. Always good to help a fellow Redman/Martlett out (what a terrible mascot name)

[Robespierre]

I voted for Dozo, but that was before you stated that you'll have no living expenses at UConn. We need all the facts, bruh.

None of these schools will put you in great shape for your job search in this environment, so it's imperative to keep your costs down. I think when all the numbers are run, Dozo and UConn are the two cheapest alternatives, no?

So I'd say UConn since there's no risk of losing a scholly as there is at Dozo. Plus you aren't lusting after NYC Biglaw, and that's a main rationale for Dozo.

[mcgillgrad10]

I voted for Dozo, but that was before you stated that you'll have no living expenses at UConn. We need all the facts, bruh.

None of these schools will put you in great shape for your job search in this environment, so it's imperative to keep your costs down. I think when all the numbers are run, Dozo and UConn are the two cheapest alternatives, no?

So I'd say UConn since there's no risk of losing a scholly as there is at Dozo. Plus you aren't lusting after NYC Biglaw, and that's a main rationale for Dozo.

Yeah Uconn will put me relatively debt free when all is said and done if I can handle living at home for 3 more years. Thanks for the input, I'm probably leaning closest to Uconn at this point.

[alumniguy]

Uconn - heads and tails above the other (especially if you can make it out debt free).

BU isn't worth sticker in this environment and the scholarships from the other schools aren't attractive enough for them to be worth anything to you. Unless you know you want to be in NYC, I don't think Cardozo offers much of anything in terms of job prospects. I would imagine you can get to the same places from either Cardozo or Uconn (with a substantial amount of work in locating jobs required at both).

I think debt should be your primary decision maker here.

[mcgillgrad10]

Uconn - heads and tails above the other (especially if you can make it out debt free).

BU isn't worth sticker in this environment and the scholarships from the other schools aren't attractive enough for them to be worth anything to you. Unless you know you want to be in NYC, I don't think Cardozo offers much of anything in terms of job prospects. I would imagine you can get to the same places from either Cardozo or Uconn (with a substantial amount of work in locating jobs required at both).

I think debt should be your primary decision maker here.

Thanks for the insight, definitely leaning more towards Uconn with the advice given.

[BCLS]

BU. Tough call here because neither BC nor BU are worth sticker. I think in the long run BU will give you the most options. Good luck!

[alumniguy]

B

I disagree with this. Unless you are going to a T-14, your law school pedigree doesn't matter much once you've been practicing law for any substantial amount of time. The fact that BU is ranked higher than Uconn is simply not going to matter to a practicing attorney looking to lateral to another job. This may be a factor if it was BU and an unranked 2nd tier school, but the difference between BU and Uconn just isn't that big once you get a few years out of law school.

The rankings are relatively good at establishing initial job prospects/starting salary if you look at them broadly, i.e. a T14 student is more likely to get a prestigious, high paying job than a 15-40 school. In the same manner, a 15-40 student is more likely to get a prestigious, high paying job than a 41-100 student. Certain jobs require T-14 (or inside connections or stellar law school performance), but it is just not true that such jobs are open to BU students and not Uconn students.

[bigkahuna2020]

I voted for Dozo, but that was before you stated that you'll have no living expenses at UConn. We need all the facts, bruh.

None of these schools will put you in great shape for your job search in this environment, so it's imperative to keep your costs down. I think when all the numbers are run, Dozo and UConn are the two cheapest alternatives, no?

So I'd say UConn since there's no risk of losing a scholly as there is at Dozo. Plus you aren't lusting after NYC Biglaw, and that's a main rationale for Dozo.

Not sure about this---I always thought of Dozo as more of a NYC small/midlaw play

[alumniguy]

Yea, I believe that Cardozo is mainly a NYC player. If my memory serves me correct (I applied there and got in and also had a scholarship offer, ultimately withdrew though), it is a pretty young law school. I can't imagine it has the alumni penetration in NE/mid-Atlantic that Uconn likely does. I think if OP knew he/she wanted to be in NYC, it would be a close call between Uconn and Cardozo. But as I understand, OP said location is not a factor. Most NYC firms (big and small) have lawyers from all over because we like to think that people would kill to live/practice in NYC (so there isn't a focus on whether an applicant has ties to NYC). I imagine that isn't the case for Connecticut firms though which may look twice at a Cardozo applicant with no real ties (although OP is from Connecticut, so that mutes the point for him/her).

[bigkahuna2020]

I agree with alumniguy---I am having toruble finding Cardozo grads at even law firms in Newark (which is a seperate legal market but CERTAINLY is closely linked)

[BCLS]

B

I disagree with this. Unless you are going to a T-14, your law school pedigree doesn't matter much once you've been practicing law for any substantial amount of time. The fact that BU is ranked higher than Uconn is simply not going to matter to a practicing attorney looking to lateral to another job. This may be a factor if it was BU and an unranked 2nd tier school, but the difference between BU and Uconn just isn't that big once you get a few years out of law school.

The rankings are relatively good at establishing initial job prospects/starting salary if you look at them broadly, i.e. a T14 student is more likely to get a prestigious, high paying job than a 15-40 school. In the same manner, a 15-40 student is more likely to get a prestigious, high paying job than a 41-100 student. Certain jobs require T-14 (or inside connections or stellar law school performance), but it is just not true that such jobs are open to BU students and not Uconn students.

Are you kidding me? Have you seen the most recent NLJ250 placement statistics?