Boston University VS Hastings Forum

[frijoles99]

I got into BU at with 75k scholly vs. Hastings with 30k scholly. I would prefer to be in CA, but I absolutely want to do PI and want to work for the DOJ. I've been reading outside of the t14 that wherever you go is regional, but is that really true for t15-t22? I can easily imagine someone from Notre Dame being placed on the coasts. According to BU's statistics they state that 10% of their graduates end up working in law firms in CA. I'm thinking BU is where my chances are best for DOJ because of ranking. The difference between Hastings and BU is 20 spots.

[Slevin Kelevra 2011]

Hastings if you want to end up in Cali, BU for Boston.

[frijoles99]

So Just completely ignore the rankings and the financial aid offer?

[RockyIII]

Did you try to negotiate with Hastings?

[concurrent fork]

I've been reading outside of the t14 that wherever you go is regional, but is that really true for t15-t22?

Yes.

[LttleBlakDress]

I got into BU at with 75k scholly vs. Hastings with 30k scholly. I would prefer to be in CA, but I absolutely want to do PI and want to work for the DOJ. I've been reading outside of the t14 that wherever you go is regional, but is that really true for t15-t22? I can easily imagine someone from Notre Dame being placed on the coasts. According to BU's statistics they state that 10% of their graduates end up working in law firms in CA. I'm thinking BU is where my chances are best for DOJ because of ranking. The difference between Hastings and BU is 20 spots.

If you're open to working on the east coast I'd take the money at BU, especially if you're OOS for Hastings. DOJ jobs don't pay *that* much so less debt=better. If you absolutely want to work in California (like I do,) go to Hastings.

[Lawlcat]

I realize this isn't CA-specific, but:

(2010 data)
Art. III: http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... ngs/page+6
NLJ 250: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2483173162

EDIT: Fixed links.

BU total: ~30% (30% NLJ + apparently <2% Art. III)
Hastings total: ~16% (12% NLJ + ~4% Art. III)

I'd be a lot more comfortable trying to place into the top third of a school than the top 15%. Obviously, these are very conservative measures. Nonetheless. (I know you want to do PI, but if you want governmental PI, these stats are important.)

As for the DOJ: I don't think there are a lot of non-HYS schools that give you a really great shot at DOJ straight out of law school. As I understand it, you basically want to try to get into a very selective summer program at the DOJ and/or get a good clerkship after graduation. DOJ is hard. Or so I hear.

I'd look at their LRAPs. If you really are 100% PI, and not just governmental PI, that might be the most important thing.

Maybe you can leverage more money out of Hastings?

[Aberzombie1892]

I've been reading outside of the t14 that wherever you go is regional, but is that really true for t15-t22?

Yes.

It's true within the T14 as well (exception: ties and NYC).

OP, you most likely aren't getting DOJ right out.

However, BU with a $25/y scholarship the way to go. I understand that you may want CA, but you are attending law school because you want decently paid legal job - the chances of this are higher at BU and the BU scholarship makes it competitive here.

If you must have Hastings, PM General Tso. He is at Hastings and could probably answer your questions about it.

[20160810]

I chose Davis over BU, but I only did so because I was absolutely, 100%, positively, completely, entirely certain I wanted to work in CA. As in, working on the East Coast was a completely unpalatable option for me. Did I make the right choice? Absolutely, I love it here in Davis and have a solid job in CA lined up. But it was the right choice for me.

In your case, you need to ask yourself if you're 100% set on CA (did you grow up here, or did you just watch a few episodes of 'The OC' and decide that this would be a nice place to live?) If you're at all ambivalent, I'd suggest attending BU, especially considering the scholarship you received. Additionally, I have to ask if you applied to/got into Davis. Although UCD and UCH are essentially peer schools, in your case there is a strong argument to be made for UCD since you're dead-set on PI and need to keep costs down (COL in Davis is almost half of what COL in SF is).

[ArthurDigbySellers]

How much does location matter? If you're location agnostic, you'll have better employment prospects in the absolute out of BU. Not to mention it would probably be easier to score DC (though even coming out of a T14 DOJ is tough). BU claims to send 10% of its class to California every year. I'm not really in the mood to verify that claim or debate its merits, but logic would dictate a far larger contingent of Hastings grads are in California, thus giving you an arguably better network if you want California. Bottom line is, don't be a rankings whore. The money is very similar. A little more money from one school or the other isn't worth going to school on the opposite side of the country from where you want to work/live.

Edit: I misread your scholarship amounts and thought they were about even. Coming to California out of BU is certainly possible, but don't bet on it. Even 60k or so less in debt is cold comfort if you're 3,000 miles from where you wanted to live. That said, you want DC, and the East coast is much more doable coming from, well, an East coast school.

Are you DOJ or bust or would you "settle" for other fed jobs?

I don't think DC is that great of a market to bet on. If you do well, you can break in, but don't bet your life on it. What should tip the scales are backup markets. If you don't do as well as you like and have to resort to looking for jobs in your schools primary market, would you be more comfortable with Hastings' (San Francisco?) or BU's (Boston)?

[frijoles99]

Hey Lawlcat those links didn't work out can you please repost them? Secondly I have been looking at LRAPS, but I've just come to the conclusion that the 10 year federal loan reimbursement program plus the Income based repayment program are sufficient enough for me to pay back law school. It is nice though to have 75k less money hanging over my head at BU. On the other hand I've heard hastings has amazing PI stuff in CA. Unfortunatley, I didn't apply to Davis.
If their ranking was even I would try to push more money out of Hastings, but they are 20 spaces apart in the T1. I would think that would make a difference to most people. I know DOJ is tough, but wouldn't that make a better argument for the school with the best all around job prospects? Like, if I don't make it into DOJ, I can at least fall back on standard practice with decent compensation?

[20160810]

Hey Lawlcat those links didn't work out can you please repost them? Secondly I have been looking at LRAPS, but I've just come to the conclusion that the 10 year federal loan reimbursement program plus the Income based repayment program are sufficient enough for me to pay back law school. It is nice though to have 75k less money hanging over my head at BU. On the other hand I've heard hastings has amazing PI stuff in CA. Unfortunatley, I didn't apply to Davis.
If their ranking was even I would try to push more money out of Hastings, but they are 20 spaces apart in the T1. I would think that would make a difference to most people. I know DOJ is tough, but wouldn't that make a better argument for the school with the best all around job prospects? Like, if I don't make it into DOJ, I can at least fall back on standard practice with decent compensation?

The 20-space difference isn't as big as it would seem. CA employers regard Davis and Hastings as peer schools (as in generally have identical GPA cutoffs for hiring at either school), and the difference between BU and Davis is, for the moment, 8 spots. So if it helps, think of the difference between BU and UCH as 20-28.

[sarahh]

I would think BU would be a better choice job-wise not because of the rankings but the markets they are located in. There are not that many legal jobs in san francisco, and the government is broke. Plus, you have two top-14 schools in the area, and a lot of the students want to stay. And lots of people from other top schools want to come to San Francisco too. I don't think that many Harvard students stick around Boston.

[ArthurDigbySellers]

If one were so inclined, one could ask SBL more specific questions about the California market as I believe he went to either Davis or Hastings and works in Cali. But that's just me.

[Borhas]

while UCD and UCH are peer schools BU has significantly better employment outcomes than both... add that to the money, and add in that DOJ is essentially a national level (aka prestige whoring) institution... and BU is the clear choice.

If you're ok w/ non-national level PI gigs, and sure you want to go w/ CA THEN I'd say go w/ UCH

[20160810]

I would think BU would be a better choice job-wise not because of the rankings but the markets they are located in. There are not that many legal jobs in San Francisco, and the government is broke. Plus, you have two top-14 schools in the area, and a lot of the students want to stay. And lots of people from other top schools want to come to San Francisco too. I don't think that many Harvard students stick around Boston.

This post is not very helpful. Sf is one of the biggest secondary markets and if you count silicon valley it dwarfs the legal market in boston, which isn't exactly unsaturated itself when you consider the ten or so law schools in that area.

[sarahh]

I would think BU would be a better choice job-wise not because of the rankings but the markets they are located in. There are not that many legal jobs in San Francisco, and the government is broke. Plus, you have two top-14 schools in the area, and a lot of the students want to stay. And lots of people from other top schools want to come to San Francisco too. I don't think that many Harvard students stick around Boston.

This post is not very helpful. Sf is one of the biggest secondary markets and if you count silicon valley it dwarfs the legal market in boston, which isn't exactly unsaturated itself when you consider the ten or so law schools in that area.

Sorry, I am not an expert - I just heard of people from Harvard striking out in San Francisco, people from Berkeley striking out there, etc. If things are not that bad, great.

After Harvard, aren't BU and BC considered the best law schools in Boston? Does it matter much if there are a bunch of other crappy law schools there? There are plenty of other law schools in the Bay area too, but I would not think that schools like Golden Gate are much of a threat to Hastings.

[Blindmelon]

I would think BU would be a better choice job-wise not because of the rankings but the markets they are located in. There are not that many legal jobs in San Francisco, and the government is broke. Plus, you have two top-14 schools in the area, and a lot of the students want to stay. And lots of people from other top schools want to come to San Francisco too. I don't think that many Harvard students stick around Boston.

This post is not very helpful. Sf is one of the biggest secondary markets and if you count silicon valley it dwarfs the legal market in boston, which isn't exactly unsaturated itself when you consider the ten or so law schools in that area.

Sorry, I am not an expert - I just heard of people from Harvard striking out in San Francisco, people from Berkeley striking out there, etc. If things are not that bad, great.

After Harvard, aren't BU and BC considered the best law schools in Boston? Does it matter much if there are a bunch of other crappy law schools there? There are plenty of other law schools in the Bay area too, but I would not think that schools like Golden Gate are much of a threat to Hastings.

I'm not advocating Hastings over BU here, but usually 10-15% of the class goes to California. I know people with big firm jobs in the OC, Seattle, San Fran, and LA - although, admittedly not a huge number.

[Slevin Kelevra 2011]

The last thing anyone should do is go to BC/BU over a cali school if they want to work in Cali.

[Lawlcat]

Hey Lawlcat those links didn't work out can you please repost them? Secondly I have been looking at LRAPS, but I've just come to the conclusion that the 10 year federal loan reimbursement program plus the Income based repayment program are sufficient enough for me to pay back law school. It is nice though to have 75k less money hanging over my head at BU. On the other hand I've heard hastings has amazing PI stuff in CA. Unfortunatley, I didn't apply to Davis.
If their ranking was even I would try to push more money out of Hastings, but they are 20 spaces apart in the T1. I would think that would make a difference to most people. I know DOJ is tough, but wouldn't that make a better argument for the school with the best all around job prospects? Like, if I don't make it into DOJ, I can at least fall back on standard practice with decent compensation?

My bad!

Art. III: http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... ngs/page+6
NLJ 250: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2483173162

from
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=150004

If you want to work in California (and be warned that it's a tough market), I think Hastings might be TCR. Any way you can smack more money out of Hastings?

Best option might be: check into Hastings with regard to its LRAP. Just plan on LRAP/IBR. My impression is that with PI, you really want to be in the area during law school, so you can forge connections through clinics and such.

Also, Jeff Adachi went to Hastings, and I'm pretty sure he can burn through steel with his MIND LASER.

[ArthurDigbySellers]

I would think BU would be a better choice job-wise not because of the rankings but the markets they are located in. There are not that many legal jobs in San Francisco, and the government is broke. Plus, you have two top-14 schools in the area, and a lot of the students want to stay. And lots of people from other top schools want to come to San Francisco too. I don't think that many Harvard students stick around Boston.

This post is not very helpful. Sf is one of the biggest secondary markets and if you count silicon valley it dwarfs the legal market in boston, which isn't exactly unsaturated itself when you consider the ten or so law schools in that area.

Sorry, I am not an expert - I just heard of people from Harvard striking out in San Francisco, people from Berkeley striking out there, etc. If things are not that bad, great.

After Harvard, aren't BU and BC considered the best law schools in Boston? Does it matter much if there are a bunch of other crappy law schools there? There are plenty of other law schools in the Bay area too, but I would not think that schools like Golden Gate are much of a threat to Hastings.

I'm not advocating Hastings over BU here, but usually 10-15% of the class goes to California. I know people with big firm jobs in the OC, Seattle, San Fran, and LA - although, admittedly not a huge number.

I think the newest USNWR show that 4% went to California. Granted, can't fault BU because it's, well, in Boston, but 10-15% would make me optimistic about California. 4% sounds like it could just be Californians going back home.

[Lawlcat]

I'm not advocating Hastings over BU here, but usually 10-15% of the class goes to California. I know people with big firm jobs in the OC, Seattle, San Fran, and LA - although, admittedly not a huge number.

I think the newest USNWR show that 4% went to California. Granted, can't fault BU because it's, well, in Boston, but 10-15% would make me optimistic about California. 4% sounds like it could just be Californians going back home.[/quote]

Popular wisdom: SF requires ties. LA sort of requires ties. Going to Hastings might suffice.

[Blindmelon]

I'm not advocating Hastings over BU here, but usually 10-15% of the class goes to California. I know people with big firm jobs in the OC, Seattle, San Fran, and LA - although, admittedly not a huge number.

I think the newest USNWR show that 4% went to California. Granted, can't fault BU because it's, well, in Boston, but 10-15% would make me optimistic about California. 4% sounds like it could just be Californians going back home.

Popular wisdom: SF requires ties. LA sort of requires ties. Going to Hastings might suffice.[/quote]

4%? Shit, that number went wayyy down. Not surprising though. Just wait until the stats for this graduating class year come out. Its going to be laughably bad... sigh.

[ArthurDigbySellers]

Well so much for BU to cali. I don't like Cali, but the illusion of mobility is awesome...

[ArthurDigbySellers]

Wait why is this year going to be laughably bad?