Midwestern Schools Bonanza (OSU, UIUC, IUB, WUSTL, Minn) Forum

[mcubberly]

Hello! I'm from Ohio originally, and I wasn't sure I wanted to stay in the Midwest. I applied to 25 schools, but the Midwestern ones seem like the only viable options. I'm not set on biglaw, but big or midlaw would be nice. Generally, I'd like to get a job somewhere I like that can pay off my LS debt (which I'd like to be fairly low).

My options:
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/mbgal89

The ones I'm considering most:
UIUC instate with 25k/yr (off of 33k tuition)
Ohio State instate with 12k/yr (24k tuition)
IU-B with 40/yr (approx 45k tuition)
WUSTL with 20/yr (approx 45k tuition)
Minnesota with 20k/yr
I've also been accepted to BC, Fordham with 10k/yr, GW, Tulane with 25k/yr, Wake with 22k/yr, UC-Boulder, Alabama with 24k/yr
WL at Vanderbilt (which I would have really liked), UCLA and held at Cornell.
Still waiting on BU, W&M, and USC.

I would have liked to try the Northeast, but I'm happy living and working in the Midwest. For me, OSU vs UIUC is the tough decision. I'm from Columbus, have relatives in firms/know people in larger firms there, and would be happy to live and work there. But it's more expensive than UIUC, and UIUC is better ranked + better biglaw job prospects. I tried to negotiate with OSU, but no dice. Living in Columbus would be really close to my family, and networking from there would be muuuuuch easier.

Any thoughts? I'm not sure what to choose, so any insight would be great. Mostly, I want to have a job after law school and not accrue crushing debt. Thanks

[KMaine]

So, why isn't Indiana your #1 option?

[mcubberly]

So, why isn't Indiana your #1 option?

The awesome scholarship is nice, but I don't really want to live/work in Indiana. OSU does well in Columbus/Ohio, somewhere I'd like to practice, and UIUC does well in Chicago, another place I'd like to be.

[kehoema2]

How strong do you think those Columbus connections really are? Enough to offset the increased costs of OSU and decreased employment prospects(through the school)?

[anti-phronimos]

If you have a fallback plan through your connections in columbus, assuming your connections aren't shitlaw, then you should feel more comfortable taking a risk on higher ranked schools with better chances at biglaw, despite the extra debt.

I'd gun UIUC or WUSTL.

On another note, I think I know you IRL if you're coming from Tulane. Good luck with your decision/enjoy the remainder of your endless summer--it's damn cold up here.

[mcubberly]

How strong do you think those Columbus connections really are? Enough to offset the increased costs of OSU and decreased employment prospects(through the school)?

I'm not sure. It'd definitely help. I think what's really pulling me to OSU/Columbus is family/friends and wanting to be in a city in the middle of cornfields rather than a college town in the middle of cornfields. Also, my SO could find work there. So, that's another factor that I'm considering.

If you have a fallback plan through your connections in columbus, assuming your connections aren't shitlaw, then you should feel more comfortable taking a risk on higher ranked schools with better chances at biglaw, despite the extra debt.

I'd gun UIUC or WUSTL.

On another note, I think I know you IRL if you're coming from Tulane. Good luck with your decision/enjoy the remainder of your endless summer--it's damn cold up here.

Lol small world dude. I PMed you. It's awesome here right now.

[wallacestevie]

I'm looking at this same Midwest school problem. I'd really like to eventually end up in the Columbus area, too, but I wouldn't mind the little extra mobility a WUSTL or similar school might provide. I guess my main question is to how far each of these schools reach. Do they truly have "Midwest" reach, or would going to Minnesota or Wisconsin condemn me to an icy existence for life? Hope this is relevant to the thread.

Edit: I realize that the midwest is cold occasionally, but would Minnesota be an option for placement into Columbus or Indianapolis? How about Wisconsin, Iowa, UIUC, etc.?

[showNprove]

Since you're from Ohio originally, I wouldn't go to Ohio State. You're connections are already enough to get you a job there. You just need to go to an equivalent or better school and do well enough there to meet the firms' grade requirements.

I would go with UIUC. Only $3k/year more than IU-B, has a better reputation, and gives you access to a large market (Chicago) in addition to your home market.

WUSTL and Minn are the best schools on your list, but they cost too much more than UIUC to warrant going to either.

[mcubberly]

Since you're from Ohio originally, I wouldn't go to Ohio State. You're connections are already enough to get you a job there. You just need to go to an equivalent or better school and do well enough there to meet the firms' grade requirements.

I would go with UIUC. Only $3k/year more than IU-B, has a better reputation, and gives you access to a large market (Chicago) in addition to your home market.

WUSTL and Minn are the best schools on your list, but they cost too much more than UIUC to warrant going to either.

Is Minn that much better than UIUC? I'm curious, I don't know much about it.

[showNprove]

Is Minn that much better than UIUC? I'm curious, I don't know much about it.

Not that much better. Taking Minn over UIUC is probably similar to taking Duke over Northwestern or GULC over Texas.

[mcubberly]

Is Minn that much better than UIUC? I'm curious, I don't know much about it.

Not that much better. Taking Minn over UIUC is probably similar to taking Duke over Northwestern or GULC over Texas.

Interesting. UIUC seems to have a slight edge in NLJ250 placement. What makes UMN more prestigious? I've heard Minneapolis is a really cool city.

[showNprove]

Is Minn that much better than UIUC? I'm curious, I don't know much about it.

Not that much better. Taking Minn over UIUC is probably similar to taking Duke over Northwestern or GULC over Texas.

Interesting. UIUC seems to have a slight edge in NLJ250 placement. What makes UMN more prestigious? I've heard Minneapolis is a really cool city.

Northwestern also places better in the NLJ250 than Duke, but Duke has a stronger rep. Might be more historic than anything else, or the placement stats don't tell the whole story.

[mez06]

Is Minn that much better than UIUC? I'm curious, I don't know much about it.

Not that much better. Taking Minn over UIUC is probably similar to taking Duke over Northwestern or GULC over Texas.

Interesting. UIUC seems to have a slight edge in NLJ250 placement. What makes UMN more prestigious? I've heard Minneapolis is a really cool city.

UMN is only prestigious in Minnesota. And maybe Iowa.

[Patriot1208]

If you add up clerkships and nlj stats it seems that UIUC only does about 4-5% better than tOSU. The reality is here that you likely aren't getting biglaw or equivalent. And, you have to understand that going in. Midlaw and small law are much, much more worried about things like proximity. In that case I wouldn't let 4% biglaw+clerkship placement take me away from being in Ohio, if I wanted to be in Ohio after graduation. If you don't want to be in Ohio after graduation or don't care than it becomes a different issue.

[mcubberly]

If you add up clerkships and nlj stats it seems that UIUC only does about 4-5% better than tOSU. The reality is here that you likely aren't getting biglaw or equivalent. And, you have to understand that going in. Midlaw and small law are much, much more worried about things like proximity. In that case I wouldn't let 4% biglaw+clerkship placement take me away from being in Ohio, if I wanted to be in Ohio after graduation. If you don't want to be in Ohio after graduation or don't care than it becomes a different issue.

Yeah. I wonder how OSU hiring has fared ITE. I'm definitely fine without biglaw-- I just want to pay off debt, have a job, and be comfortable. Total CoA for both is in the 80-95k range, which would all be debt for me.

I guess my real question is: is it stupid to turn down cheaper, higher ranked UIUC for OSU if I'd rather go to law school in Columbus and would be fine with living in Columbus?

[snapdragon]

Dear Troy & Abed in the morning,

I am sad we will not be going to school together.

With that said, I voted UIUC because I think you can already get back to Ohio if you want to. That said, if you're going to be happier in Columbus, go to OSU. No point in making yourself miserable over a few spots in the rankings.

[mcubberly]

Dear Troy & Abed in the morning,

I am sad we will not be going to school together.

With that said, I voted UIUC because I think you can already get back to Ohio if you want to. That said, if you're going to be happier in Columbus, go to OSU. No point in making yourself miserable over a few spots in the rankings.

Me too! Where are you ending up? And thanks for the advice. I think that's what I'm leaning towards now...I need to visit UIUC. I just hate those cornfields.

[Patriot1208]

If you add up clerkships and nlj stats it seems that UIUC only does about 4-5% better than tOSU. The reality is here that you likely aren't getting biglaw or equivalent. And, you have to understand that going in. Midlaw and small law are much, much more worried about things like proximity. In that case I wouldn't let 4% biglaw+clerkship placement take me away from being in Ohio, if I wanted to be in Ohio after graduation. If you don't want to be in Ohio after graduation or don't care than it becomes a different issue.

Yeah. I wonder how OSU hiring has fared ITE. I'm definitely fine without biglaw-- I just want to pay off debt, have a job, and be comfortable. Total CoA for both is in the 80-95k range, which would all be debt for me.

I guess my real question is: is it stupid to turn down cheaper, higher ranked UIUC for OSU if I'd rather go to law school in Columbus and would be fine with living in Columbus?

First, Illinois isn't cheaper because total COA is the same for you, as you said. Tution differences don't matter if COL make up for them. So, basically, you are looking at Illinois and Ohio State at the same price. The deal is that with both those schools your salary after graduation is most likely going to be in the 50-70k range. The type of firms that pay that amount of money like to keep recruiting very regional. So, if you rather be in Ohio, you should go to Ohio State.

[showNprove]

First, Illinois isn't cheaper because total COA is the same for you, as you said. Tution differences don't matter if COL make up for them. So, basically, you are looking at Illinois and Ohio State at the same price. The deal is that with both those schools your salary after graduation is most likely going to be in the 50-70k range. The type of firms that pay that amount of money like to keep recruiting very regional. So, if you rather be in Ohio, you should go to Ohio State.

If you have strong prior connections to a market, as OP does, you don't need to go to law school there to get a job there. The worse the schools are, the less that holds true, but UIUC is definitely strong enough to put an Ohioan back in Ohio.

[snapdragon]

Dear Troy & Abed in the morning,

I am sad we will not be going to school together.

With that said, I voted UIUC because I think you can already get back to Ohio if you want to. That said, if you're going to be happier in Columbus, go to OSU. No point in making yourself miserable over a few spots in the rankings.

Me too! Where are you ending up? And thanks for the advice. I think that's what I'm leaning towards now...I need to visit UIUC. I just hate those cornfields.

Haha, you can visit me on the Wake v. UConn thread to become part of that historic decision!

[Patriot1208]

First, Illinois isn't cheaper because total COA is the same for you, as you said. Tution differences don't matter if COL make up for them. So, basically, you are looking at Illinois and Ohio State at the same price. The deal is that with both those schools your salary after graduation is most likely going to be in the 50-70k range. The type of firms that pay that amount of money like to keep recruiting very regional. So, if you rather be in Ohio, you should go to Ohio State.

If you have strong prior connections to a market, as OP does, you don't need to go to law school there to get a job there. The worse the schools are, the less that holds true, but IUB is definitely strong enough to put an Ohioan back in Ohio.

It will be easier at tosu, I guarantee it as someone from that area.

[hardworkingal]

Is Minn that much better than UIUC? I'm curious, I don't know much about it.

Not that much better. Taking Minn over UIUC is probably similar to taking Duke over Northwestern or GULC over Texas.

Interesting. UIUC seems to have a slight edge in NLJ250 placement. What makes UMN more prestigious? I've heard Minneapolis is a really cool city.

Northwestern also places better in the NLJ250 than Duke, but Duke has a stronger rep. Might be more historic than anything else, or the placement stats don't tell the whole story.

Minnesota is prestigious outside of Minnesota and Iowa(there is a reason they are ranked consistently in nearly every ranking in the top 25), the reason grads don't place as well as some others in the NLJ250 is because most decide to stay in Minneapolis, which doesn't happen to have many NLJ250 firms. I've had a few colleagues of mine from a Florida undergrad school go to UMN, they've return to Florida picking up good jobs, but like most schools outside the top 14 it all depends where you place amongst your classmates regardless of where you go. With that being said WUSTL, UMN, and UIUC are all peer schools, but the best choice would have to be UIUC because of the instate tuition plus scholly.

[2011Law]

OP, is BC not offering you anything, or have they just not gotten around to you yet? If the former, then for you and I (probably).

[mcubberly]

OP, is BC not offering you anything, or have they just not gotten around to you yet? If the former, then for you and I (probably).

BC hasn't offered anything yet . I guess we'll see...

The hardest thing about UIUC for me is thinking about living in central Illinois. Columbus would be so much better, I have family there, my SO could move there, and I'd be happy living there. That's why I'm torn...if UIUC were in Chicago, I'd be there in a second. Gaaahh.