Temple (small scholly) vs. Maryland (out of state sticker) Forum

[arvcondor]

This admissions cycle has exposed Maryland as insufferably stingy when it comes to scholarships. However, the curriculum of the school is somewhat more exciting than that at Temple, and after 6 years in Philly, I could use a change. I'd like to practice business and economic development law and possibly securities regulation. And while MD doesn't place in DC as well as DC schools, I appreciate the proximity between the two cities.

Temple gave me a $2,500/year scholarship – less than what I was expecting, and also a bit stingy. But I get instate tuition, which after the scholly puts me at $15k/year plus books and COL. Maryland, by contrast, is $35k/year, with the possibility of establishing residency after 1L, bringing tuition down to around the $25k area.

Release the advice!

[jdhakert]

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[BarbellDreams]

Coming out of Temple with roughly 75-80k of debt isn't by any means great but it is at least somewhat doable. Maryland with 140k is borderline suicide. Placement is roughly the same in regional areas, go to Temple.

[ran12]

Go to Temple. Maryland at sticker is gonna be btwn 180-190k in debt. While I personally like Maryland better and don't believe Baltimore is that bad, you have to consider debtload. Both schools have a pretty good stronghold in their respective markets.

[ndirish2010]

Temple.

[DeeCee]

definitely Temple.

[arvcondor]

Wow, didn't expect the consensus to be so absolute. Let me pose a few points just for consideration:

1. There is the possibility of getting instate tuition, which would bring down the difference to only about +$7k per year at Maryland, meaning the total debt difference would be $34k by the end of school. Still significant, but also consider that...

2. ...UMD is the practically only game in town in Baltimore, whereas Temple is competing with a glut of grads from Penn, Nova, Rutgers, and now Drexel. So Temple has about five times the competition in a market where a lot of those grads would actually like to work whereas UMD has only UBaltimore to contend with.


Thoughts on these?

[rebexness]

[HeavenWood]

Wow, didn't expect the consensus to be so absolute. Let me pose a few points just for consideration:

1. There is the possibility of getting instate tuition, which would bring down the difference to only about +$7k per year at Maryland, meaning the total debt difference would be $34k by the end of school. Still significant, but also consider that...

2. ...UMD is the practically only game in town in Baltimore, whereas Temple is competing with a glut of grads from Penn, Nova, Rutgers, and now Drexel. So Temple has about five times the competition in a market where a lot of those grads would actually like to work whereas UMD has only UBaltimore to contend with.


Thoughts on these?

Philadelphia has a much larger legal market than Baltimore. Philadelphia has 14 NLJ 250 law firms. Baltimore has one. That being said, both have roughly equal BigLaw placement.

If you don't mind Philly, Temple is a decent choice. But if you really want Baltimore, I second rebexness's suggestion.

[ATR]

Philadelphia has a much larger legal market than Baltimore. Philadelphia has 14 NLJ 250 law firms. Baltimore has one.

Looks like making that Sporcle quiz finally pays off.

OP, out of these options I would go with Temple.

[jdhakert]

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[jdhakert]

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[HeavenWood]

And since many Penn grads to elsewhere (NYC, DC, probably LA and Chicago), the only schools directly competing for Philly jobs are Nova and Temple, with Temple probably having an edge anyways.

Plus Rutgers Camden, Widener, and Drexel, but yes, Temple/Villanova are essentially tied for second.

[arvcondor]

There are other schools than just U Maryland competing for Baltimore jobs

Are there, though? I was under the impression that besides UMD and UBaltimore, the field was pretty much clear since the DC schools tend to shoot for DC jobs.

[2things2]

I'm in the same exact boat.. PA resident -- applied to Maryland just for shits but have been focused on Temple the whole time. I'm visiting Baltimore in 2 weeks to see how I feel about the place, then I have a tough decision to make. Any way to create a poll for this thread?

[tarp]

At the risk of hearing from the rankings-whore crowd again, I must say that If you got into UMD, your numbers are probably good enough to apply to Drexel even this late in the cycle and get a full-ride or almost-full-ride. Since Drexel's law school is new and unranked (US News won't rank it until there's several years worth of data, and Drexel has only had one graduating class so far), they are throwing hefty scholarships at applicants above certain numbers to help boost the quality of their student body. If you have above, say, a 162 and a 3.2 then you have a good shot at a full ride. As for the quality of the education, we have professors who were formerly teaching at Georgetown and Penn. Drexel is a better university than Temple or Villanova so I have no doubts that the law school will eventually outrank Temple and Villanova. Then again I personally do not care about rankings, only about quality... I am just pointing this out for the detractors.

[HeavenWood]

Drexel is a better university than Temple or Villanova so I have no doubts that the law school will eventually outrank Temple and Villanova.

LOL no.

Then again I personally do not care about rankings, only about quality... I am just pointing this out for the detractors.

Translated: I personally do not care about getting a legal job.

[tarp]

HeavenWood, care to enlighten us on your credentials? Your post offered absolutely nothing of value, and if you think job prospects are any better from Temple than from Drexel you are really a moron.

[HeavenWood]

HeavenWood, care to enlighten us on your credentials? Your post offered absolutely nothing of value, and if you think job prospects are any better from Temple than from Drexel you are really a moron.

My dad conducts hiring at a Philly midlaw. He told me the local hierarchy point blank: Penn > Temple/Villanova > Rutgers Camden > Widener > Drexel. This hierarchy holds at the vast majority of Philadelphia law firms (with Temple and Villanova switching between second and third place depending on the firm). Drexel is a barely-established law school. It doesn't matter how many Drexel undergrads work in Philadelphia law firms. They didn't go to Drexel for law school. Philly is an insular market, and old reputations die hard. This is why the recent scandal at Villanova will have a minimal effect on local hiring. It's also why Drexel has very little sway with most employers. LSAT and GPA medians be damned. There's no Drexel law alumni network. Temple and Villanova saturate the city.

Prospects from Temple ARE better than Drexel. Just look at the most recent NLJ 250 statistics. Both Temple and Villanova placed ~16% in big law firms. Drexel wasn't even on the list. Granted, neither of the three schools are safe investments ITE, but to convince yourself that going to Drexel places you on some kind of pedestal makes YOU the moron.

[arvcondor]

Any way to create a poll for this thread?

Just edited to include poll. Not sure why I didn't do that in the beginning.

Drexel is a better university than Temple or Villanova so I have no doubts that the law school will eventually outrank Temple and Villanova

While I appreciate any and all feedback I post, tarp, this statement is problematic for a couple of reasons, namely, 1) I'm not sure why you think Drexel is a "better university" or what that even means, and 2) even if you're able to define that, how that translates into higher USNews rankings in one particular department, i.e., law.

[HeavenWood]

Any way to create a poll for this thread?

Just edited to include poll. Not sure why I didn't do that in the beginning.

Drexel is a better university than Temple or Villanova so I have no doubts that the law school will eventually outrank Temple and Villanova

While I appreciate any and all feedback I post, tarp, this statement is problematic for a couple of reasons, namely, 1) I'm not sure why you think Drexel is a "better university" or what that even means, and 2) even if you're able to define that, how that translates into higher USNews rankings in one particular department, i.e., law.

Drexel and Villanova are ranked in differently categories, so directly comparing them is a bit problematic. I can tell you, though, that Villanova has a better local reputation than Drexel (albeit Villanova's prestige seems stagnant, while Drexel's is definitely on the rise).

It's more of a wash between Drexel and Temple. Temple is better in education and the liberal arts, the two are fairly even with regard to business and the health sciences, while Drexel is better in the hard/computer sciences.

They're all good undergraduate schools. I don't think Drexel is a terrible law school either. For a brand new school, it showed a lot of promise. This economy, however, has been very unkind to "rising stars" like Drexel Law. Temple and Villanova grads have it tough enough. Hell, even Penn grads have no guarantees.

[arvcondor]

Any way to create a poll for this thread?

Just edited to include poll. Not sure why I didn't do that in the beginning.

Drexel is a better university than Temple or Villanova so I have no doubts that the law school will eventually outrank Temple and Villanova

While I appreciate any and all feedback I post, tarp, this statement is problematic for a couple of reasons, namely, 1) I'm not sure why you think Drexel is a "better university" or what that even means, and 2) even if you're able to define that, how that translates into higher USNews rankings in one particular department, i.e., law.

This economy, however, has been very unkind to "rising stars" like Drexel Law. Temple and Villanova grads have it tough enough.

This is why I didn't even bother to apply to Drexel (even though they have a shinier, much more appealing building than gray, bleak Klein Hall).

[HeavenWood]

This is why I didn't even bother to apply to Drexel (even though they have a shinier, much more appealing building than gray, bleak Klein Hall).

Locust Walk is pretty baller.

The new law building is supposed to be quite nice, though.

[2things2]

At the risk of hearing from the rankings-whore crowd again, I must say that If you got into UMD, your numbers are probably good enough to apply to Drexel even this late in the cycle and get a full-ride or almost-full-ride. Since Drexel's law school is new and unranked (US News won't rank it until there's several years worth of data, and Drexel has only had one graduating class so far), they are throwing hefty scholarships at applicants above certain numbers to help boost the quality of their student body. If you have above, say, a 162 and a 3.2 then you have a good shot at a full ride. As for the quality of the education, WE have professors who were formerly teaching at Georgetown and Penn. Drexel is a better university than Temple or Villanova so I have no doubts that the law school will eventually outrank Temple and Villanova. Then again I personally do not care about rankings, only about quality... I am just pointing this out for the detractors.

1. a ha!
2. this thread is about maryland vs. temple, which is important to me personally. i'd like to hear some more opinions on that rather than arguing about drexel being whatever.

[You Gotta Have Faith]

Based on what you put, and the amount of debt involved, I'd say Temple. I wouldn't think that the difference in the schools is big enough to justify that extra $60K to most.

But by the same token, if there is a compelling reason for why you prefer Maryland, and you just can't get it off your mind and you loved it when you visited (if you visited), then perhaps Maryland really is the right choice.