Cleveland v Chicago Forum

[ColtMcCoy]

So I need some help deciding where to attend school next fall. Here are my choices so far (In no specific order):
1. Case Western
2. Loyola Chicago
3. DePaul (18,000 scholarship)

I am also wait listed at Wake Forest and Brooklyn.

I am from Cleveland, so naturally staying here is not ideal. I know Case is rated higher than both Chicago schools, but Chicago seems to be better than Cleveland in every way. If anyone has advice on what I should be looking for when deciding what school to attend I would really appreciate it.

My priorities are in location of the school and salary upon graduation.

[patrickd139]

If you are not from Chicago originally, and go to Case Western, getting SA employment in Chicago is going to be a huge hurdle (for a variety of reasons), no matter where you are in your class. All three are regional schools. I would argue that Case's "region" doesn't extend to Chicago.

In sum, if you want Chicago, go to Loyola or DePaul, but not Case Western. If you want Cleveland, go to Case Western, but not Loyola or DePaul. Neither of those schools is likely (statistically) to net you a salary above 60-75k per year starting out (probably less in Cleveland).

ETA: Colt McCoy, ftw! /Texas alum

[ColtMcCoy]

Thanks Patrick,

I understand that these are regional schools due to their respective rankings, but I'm concerned with choosing a school solely on location. Should I only concentrate on the highest ranked school I get into, or should I look at the job markets in the cities that the schools are located? I'm hoping the market rebounds (which it should by the time I graduate) so jobs wont be so hard to come by.

Colt McCoy, Browns Super Bowl champs 2012

[AlphaIncipiens]

Not if the Lions have anything to say about it

Between DePaul/ Loyola, I'd probably just go to whichever school ends up being cheapest.

[BarbellDreams]

Retake.

Case and LUC at sticker is a rough hill to climb.

DePaul usually puts heavy stips on their schollys so I can only assume you have a top 1/3rd stip or worse. DePaul and LUC are getting killed in the market right now (DePaul doing worse than LUC) and Case is a solid school but at sticker you're never paying that money back.

[Case2L]

Case has the advantage of being a bigger fish in a smaller pond, but that pond has been getting pretty crowded as of late. I have heard positive comments about Loyola from a few Case profs, and they seem to have a better reputation than DePaul according to some of my classmates that came to Case from Chicago. if you know for sure that you want out of Cleveland, I would advise againt Case. Plenty of Case grads have successfully cracked the Chicago market, but I suspect attending school in Chicago will give you a better shot.

[dood]

ur hopes of any salary is none from any of the schools u mentioned, so the decision should purely turn on where ud rather live for next 3 years. (assuming u aren't going to retake and reapply)

[The Gentleman]

As a lifelong Cleveland sports fan, I would like to say that Colt McCoy is the only thing stopping me from jumping off the nearest cliff.

But seriously OP, Case at sticker is a boatload of debt. Did you apply to Cinci? Tuition is only 21k for OH residents, and you might get a modest scholly.

[ColtMcCoy]

What is everyone suggesting I retake? I got a 162 on my LSAT and I don't think taking 4 more years of under-grad would be wise.

I am still waiting to hear from Cinci, OSU, and Pitt and my scholarship at DePaul has a stip that I get at least a 3.2.

[mpj_3050]

Case at sticker is a massive amount of debt. I have a 15k scholarship and will be withdrawing.

What about Cleveland State? Way cheaper than Case. As for Chicago, crowded market and pretty expensive to live in.

[ColtMcCoy]

I didn't apply to CSU, I was really hoping to get out of Ohio. Should I wait to hear back from Wake, or just take my seat at another school?

[rebexness]

[ColtMcCoy]

Thanks but I'm not waiting another year. I graduated in the fall an I've been loving at home for about 2 months an it's beyond miserbale. I might just go case and try to transfer to a T1 school if I can

[The Gentleman]

Thanks but I'm not waiting another year. I graduated in the fall an I've been loving at home for about 2 months an it's beyond miserbale. I might just go case and try to transfer to a T1 school if I can

IBT "That's a terrible idea"

[Flustercluck]

Thanks but I'm not waiting another year. I graduated in the fall an I've been loving at home for about 2 months an it's beyond miserbale. I might just go case and try to transfer to a T1 school if I can

IBT "That's a terrible idea"

That's a terrible idea

Trying to transfer from Case to a T1 means at least top 25%, and probably higher. This means that the best case scenario you have a 1/4 chance of moving up, and even then as a transfer you'll be paying sticker wherever you go. That would only possibly be worth it if you somehow pulled off T14, but the best case odds of that are based on top 5-10%. Not exactly good odds. Assume you will not transfer because that's the most likely outcome.

Oh, and retake... a higher LSAT is the only thing that will help you now.

[patrickd139]

Thanks but I'm not waiting another year. I graduated in the fall an I've been loving at home for about 2 months an it's beyond miserbale. I might just go case and try to transfer to a T1 school if I can

IBTA "That's a terrible idea"

Slide on over to the transfer forum and read the 0L sticky at the top...

[rebexness]

[patrickd139]

Thanks but I'm not waiting another year. I graduated in the fall an I've been loving at home for about 2 months an it's beyond miserbale. I might just go case and try to transfer to a T1 school if I can

(Caveat: If you don't want big or mid law, or if you don't want to practice in Chicago, the below might not necessarily apply.)

No offense, but it's comments like this which make me question whether many of this forum's posters are mature enough for law school. You've got options, and living with your parents (assuming it's not just a shithole of a living experience, which in that case, move out anyway) is not the only one.

If you want a certain type of lifestyle (Chicago or Cleveland corporate law, for instance), you're going to have to do one of two things: retake and increase your school prospects, or graduate top 5 ish percent at one of the schools you listed in your OP. One of those two things is significantly easier than the other. Here's the kicker, there's no guarantee either one of those will net you the job you want right out of law school.

I'm here to tell you (I too went from UG to LS, and graduated in the fall): work experience is something that is exceedingly valuable. Its value also increases as your GPA declines. Even if you're an engineering major, a 3.2 is a fairly low GPA. The good news is that with a couple of years of meaningful work experience and a great LSAT score (think 168-172 range), you can get into some great schools. If you don't go to a great school, you're facing a huge uphill battle.

Whatever happens, don't go to law school this instant because you don't want to live with your parents. I hated living with my parents too, but the rent is priced just right. You can save money, practice for the LSAT instead of doing things like cleaning your house or cooking your meals, and the like. If you just can't stand to live with your parents, don't. Get a cheap apartment, do happy hours with friends and enjoy what I'm assuming are your 20s.

What I'm trying to say is this: if I had it all to do over again, I would have chilled for a few years, gotten some w/e, upped my LSAT and increased my chances at getting my dream job.

[dood]

Thanks but I'm not waiting another year. I graduated in the fall an I've been loving at home for about 2 months an it's beyond miserbale. I might just go case and try to transfer to a T1 school if I can

(Caveat: If you don't want big or mid law, or if you don't want to practice in Chicago, the below might not necessarily apply.)

No offense, but it's comments like this which make me question whether many of this forum's posters are mature enough for law school. You've got options, and living with your parents (assuming it's not just a shithole of a living experience, which in that case, move out anyway) is not the only one.

If you want a certain type of lifestyle (Chicago or Cleveland corporate law, for instance), you're going to have to do one of two things: retake and increase your school prospects, or graduate top 5 ish percent at one of the schools you listed in your OP. One of those two things is significantly easier than the other. Here's the kicker, there's no guarantee either one of those will net you the job you want right out of law school.

I'm here to tell you (I too went from UG to LS, and graduated in the fall): work experience is something that is exceedingly valuable. Its value also increases as your GPA declines. Even if you're an engineering major, a 3.2 is a fairly low GPA. The good news is that with a couple of years of meaningful work experience and a great LSAT score (think 168-172 range), you can get into some great schools. If you don't go to a great school, you're facing a huge uphill battle.

Whatever happens, don't go to law school this instant because you don't want to live with your parents. I hated living with my parents too, but the rent is priced just right. You can save money, practice for the LSAT instead of doing things like cleaning your house or cooking your meals, and the like. If you just can't stand to live with your parents, don't. Get a cheap apartment, do happy hours with friends and enjoy what I'm assuming are your 20s.

What I'm trying to say is this: if I had it all to do over again, I would have chilled for a few years, gotten some w/e, upped my LSAT and increased my chances at getting my dream job.

tldr; but from a quick scan i believe this poaster is trying to say: just do sales or bartend and retake bro.

[patrickd139]

tldr; but from a quick scan i believe this poaster is trying to say: just do sales or bartend and retake bro.

Spot on.

[Fred_McGriff]

I lived in Cleveland for a short while. It was hell on earth. That being said, had I stuck it out and stayed a few years, I could see myself having a good time living in Tremont or Ohio City or something, spending every day off I had far from the city.

Don't know anything about the Cleveland legal market, but if it's anything like other jobs in the city, it's probably not doing well.

[snowpeach06]

If you want to work in Chicago and got money from a Chicago school, I'd go to a Chicago school. As a previous poster said though, beware of the stipulations on the scholarship. Perhaps consider writing and asking them to simply take it away. Also note: Chicago is more awesome, but more expensive. I ultimately chose Case because it was the cheapest option, despite the fact that I was dead set on living in a larger city.

Also, from visiting both DePaul and Loyola, Loyola seemed leaps and bounds nicer. The building was beautiful, the students seemed particularly nice, and there were a lot of programs in place to help along 1L's. Also, DePaul couldn't even find the time to give me a tour. That was a huge turn-off for me.

[ColtMcCoy]

Scholarship Update:

Depaul 18k and 3.2 gpa
Loyola 5k and 3.0 gpa
St. Johns 12.5 k and top 40%

I still and waiting on osu and scholarships from case.

[BarbellDreams]

A 3.2 at DePaul is like top 3rd. Thats no picnic, I wouldnt take that stip.