UVa or U of M Forum

Cubyfan21 · Post by **Cubyfan21** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:27 pm

I am trying to decide between UVa or U of M. I also have large scholarships at GW and Indiana Bloomington. I really am not sure where I want to work or what type of law I want to practice.

dabbadon8 · Post by **dabbadon8** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:07 pm

Money?

Edit to be more useful: All else being equal go to the one that gives you the most money. Also visit both.

bk1 · Post by **bk1** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:08 pm

Charlottesville or Ann Arbor?

These schools are peers, pick whichever you like better if $ is equal.

duckmoney · Post by **duckmoney** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:15 pm

Where do you want to practice?

Southeast + DC = UVA
Midwest = UM
NYC / West Coast = doesn't really matter

R.R. Raskolnikov · Post by **R.R. Raskolnikov** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:37 pm

I haven't been accepted by Michigan as of yet, but if I were I'd be in the same boat as the original poster.

I'd be very interested in government work with a foreign relations bent (although plans often change). Anyone have knowledge of how the two schools' programs and professors stack up to one another in international/foreign relations/comparative law? For me anyway, all things being equal I'd imagine UVA has an edge just for being close to the DC market.

Cubyfan21 · Post by **Cubyfan21** » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:24 pm

Whats better if I wanted to work in NYC doing corporate law?

bk1 · Post by **bk1** » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:26 pm

Cubyfan21 wrote:Whats better if I wanted to work in NYC doing corporate law?

Equal. Any difference between the two is marginal.

texaskk · Post by **texaskk** » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:28 pm

R.R. Raskolnikov wrote:I haven't been accepted by Michigan as of yet, but if I were I'd be in the same boat as the original poster.

I'd be very interested in government work with a foreign relations bent (although plans often change). Anyone have knowledge of how the two schools' programs and professors stack up to one another in international/foreign relations/comparative law? For me anyway, all things being equal I'd imagine UVA has an edge just for being close to the DC market.

U of M definitely has a stronger program for international/comparative law, one of the best in the country in fact. I'm also deciding between the two, and am leaning towards Michigan for this very reason.

vamedic03 · Post by **vamedic03** » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:47 pm

texaskk wrote:
R.R. Raskolnikov wrote:I haven't been accepted by Michigan as of yet, but if I were I'd be in the same boat as the original poster.

I'd be very interested in government work with a foreign relations bent (although plans often change). Anyone have knowledge of how the two schools' programs and professors stack up to one another in international/foreign relations/comparative law? For me anyway, all things being equal I'd imagine UVA has an edge just for being close to the DC market.
U of M definitely has a stronger program for international/comparative law, one of the best in the country in fact. I'm also deciding between the two, and am leaning towards Michigan for this very reason.

Really?! Unless you plan to enter legal academia, comparative law doesn't exist as a career track.

bauerahl · Post by **bauerahl** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:03 am

texaskk wrote:
R.R. Raskolnikov wrote:I haven't been accepted by Michigan as of yet, but if I were I'd be in the same boat as the original poster.

I'd be very interested in government work with a foreign relations bent (although plans often change). Anyone have knowledge of how the two schools' programs and professors stack up to one another in international/foreign relations/comparative law? For me anyway, all things being equal I'd imagine UVA has an edge just for being close to the DC market.
U of M definitely has a stronger program for international/comparative law, one of the best in the country in fact. I'm also deciding between the two, and am leaning towards Michigan for this very reason.

Pretty much meaningless... and if not meaningless, not necessarily true. Both Michigan and Virginia's international law programs are pretty much equal. I'm not really sure where you are getting that idea from.

FlightoftheEarls · Post by **FlightoftheEarls** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:10 am

Go to ASW at each school and try to determine where you'll be more comfortable. They're both great schools and peers in almost every respect.

soullesswonder · Post by **soullesswonder** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:15 am

bauerahl wrote:
texaskk wrote:
R.R. Raskolnikov wrote:I haven't been accepted by Michigan as of yet, but if I were I'd be in the same boat as the original poster.

I'd be very interested in government work with a foreign relations bent (although plans often change). Anyone have knowledge of how the two schools' programs and professors stack up to one another in international/foreign relations/comparative law? For me anyway, all things being equal I'd imagine UVA has an edge just for being close to the DC market.
U of M definitely has a stronger program for international/comparative law, one of the best in the country in fact. I'm also deciding between the two, and am leaning towards Michigan for this very reason.
Pretty much meaningless... and if not meaningless, not necessarily true. Both Michigan and Virginia's international law programs are pretty much equal. I'm not really sure where you are getting that idea from.

It's not like UVA has the oldest and most cited Intl Law journal in the country or anything...

Veyron · Post by **Veyron** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:17 am

UVA prob places a bit better ITE.

texaskk · Post by **texaskk** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:22 am

Wow! Some avid UVA fans in here, didn't mean to offend anybody.

Michigan ranks 6th and UVA 9th in International Law (which is not all that big of a difference, and who knows what the rankings mean anyway) but what I was mentally referencing in particular when I made that comment was Michigan's relative strength when it comes to all of the centers, special programs, and clinics they have in this field. They apparently have a really great Center for International and Comparative Law, and then tons of more specific programs like Chinese Legal Studies Program, European Legal Studies Program, Global Corporate Legal Studies, and an International Transactions Clinic. Maybe UVA has all of these things as well and Michigan just does a better job of publicizing it on their website?

Another factor for me was that in speaking with many of my current UG professors, they cited Michigan's as one of the strongest international law programs around. So maybe just "academic layperson prestige?"

niederbomb · Post by **niederbomb** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:12 am

texaskk wrote:Wow! Some avid UVA fans in here, didn't mean to offend anybody.

Michigan ranks 6th and UVA 9th in International Law (which is not all that big of a difference, and who knows what the rankings mean anyway) but what I was mentally referencing in particular when I made that comment was Michigan's relative strength when it comes to all of the centers, special programs, and clinics they have in this field. They apparently have a really great Center for International and Comparative Law, and then tons of more specific programs like Chinese Legal Studies Program, European Legal Studies Program, Global Corporate Legal Studies, and an International Transactions Clinic. Maybe UVA has all of these things as well and Michigan just does a better job of publicizing it on their website?

Another factor for me was that in speaking with many of my current UG professors, they cited Michigan's as one of the strongest international law programs around. So maybe just "academic layperson prestige?"

Do all these special clinics translate into students getting jobs at overseas firms?

BTW, the University of Tulsa is ranked highly in "international and comparative law" (whatever the fuck that means).

Actually, Michigan is on my shortlist as well, so I would like to know the truth. What do all these programs mean in terms of opportunities post graduation?

LLB2JD · Post by **LLB2JD** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:44 am

I vote UVA

Here are my reasons:
1. Charllotesville is way better than Ann Arbor (Weather)
2. There is no real evidence that one places better than the other into Big Law generally, but I am inclined to believe UVA does better in DC.
3. UVA, however, has better placement in terms of clerkships.
4. Socially - UVA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Michigan

P.S. If you talk to real lawyers, there isn't really anything like International Law in the sense of one school being better than other. Also, with the rankings, don't base your decisions on this because there would always be gyrations of movement between these schools especially from 6 - 12.

TyrodTaylor · Post by **TyrodTaylor** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:04 am

uva also gets the win for campus

Informative · Post by **Informative** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:27 am

Southeast + DC = UVA
Midwest = UM
NYC / West Coast = doesn't really matter

niederbomb · Post by **niederbomb** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:46 am

BTW...possible to get Chicago from U of M without connections?

showNprove · Post by **showNprove** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:51 am

texaskk wrote:Wow! Some avid UVA fans in here, didn't mean to offend anybody.

Michigan ranks 6th and UVA 9th in International Law (which is not all that big of a difference, and who knows what the rankings mean anyway) but what I was mentally referencing in particular when I made that comment was Michigan's relative strength when it comes to all of the centers, special programs, and clinics they have in this field. They apparently have a really great Center for International and Comparative Law, and then tons of more specific programs like Chinese Legal Studies Program, European Legal Studies Program, Global Corporate Legal Studies, and an International Transactions Clinic. Maybe UVA has all of these things as well and Michigan just does a better job of publicizing it on their website?

Another factor for me was that in speaking with many of my current UG professors, they cited Michigan's as one of the strongest international law programs around. So maybe just "academic layperson prestige?"

If you want to pursue a career in comparative Canadian law, go to Michigan.

thelaststraw05 · Post by **thelaststraw05** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:57 am

Informative wrote:Southeast + DC = UVA
Midwest = UM
NYC / West Coast = doesn't really matter

I think this is really the right answer.

I've been to both and I don't think Charlottesville vs. Ann Arbor has a clear winner. Nor does one have a better student body/social scene.

I would also argue that neither has a better climate. August, September, and May all suck at UVA. December, January, and February all suck at Michigan.

They are similar schools. Visit them and decide which you like more. Which will be cheaper? Which will get you into the market you want?

AreJay711 · Post by **AreJay711** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:06 pm

My question when comparing the two was "what school could open the most doors for me?". This might seem a little counterintuitive but if you have ties to the Southeast, Michigan might be the better option and if you have ties to the Midwest, especially Chicago, UVA might be the best choice other things constant. I choose Michigan because I had what I think are passable ties to the Southeast (and D.C. if that matters) but wanted Chicago as a stronger possibility.

Cubyfan21 · Post by **Cubyfan21** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:00 pm

I am assuming I should pay for these schools over almost full ride/full ride at GW or Indiana Bloomington?

bk1 · Post by **bk1** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:03 pm

Cubyfan21 wrote:I am assuming I should pay for these schools over almost full ride/full ride at GW or Indiana Bloomington?

Depends on your goals and your risk preferences.

I would, but others might not.

Flustercluck · Post by **Flustercluck** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:10 pm

Cubyfan21 wrote:I am assuming I should pay for these schools over almost full ride/full ride at GW or Indiana Bloomington?

Do you want to stay in Indiana and is BigLaw not important to you? Indiana
Do you want to stay in the MidAtlantic region? GW (With full-ride, not almost full ride)

If you can get full ride, GW is tempting over Michigan and UVA. Not having debt certainly frees up a lot of options when pursuing a job, but then again you wouldn't have as many options to start with coming out of GW, so it's just personal risk-reward preference.

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