UGA Biglaw Forum

[Pricer]

I have done some searching, and I can't find much information on this. I have seen the NLJ 250 and all of the normal graphs, but a percentage on a chart does not help that much, especially outside of T-14 where most students are not considering biglaw.

Let me preface this question by addressing why I am asking it. I have lived in Georgia for my entire life, and I attended UGA for undergrad. I really like Athens and Atlanta, and I still live in Athens. I am a few points above median LSAT and right at median GPA, so I expect some scholarship money, plus cost of living and $15k in-state tuition are already insanely cheap compared to other schools. I am interested in biglaw for obvious reasons, but I am also interested in as little debt as possible. I have no preference on where I practice as long as it is in a decent size city. I would like to do biglaw for a few years, then, if the job has drained me as much as I expect and partnership prospects look as bleak as I expect, move to a boutique firm where life isn't so bad.

Now that I have said that, I will ask my question. What would be needed from UGA Law to be competitive enough for a biglaw position in Atlanta? In NYC? Would I be looking at top 25% + LR + other extracurriculars for UGA and top 5-10% + LR + extracurriculars for NYC? Or is this being overly optimistic? Would it be closer to 15% and 3-5%? I see that in 2009 (which is considered a terrible year for law grads) UGA placed 34/215 (15.8%) into NLJ 250 positions. I know most people will say that the 15.8% indicates that I would have to be in approx. the 84th percentile, but from my experience here, I do not know many UGA Law students that are considering biglaw. I do not know what they rank in their class, but they do not even entertain the idea. Actually, most are attending because it is cheap, and they just need the degree to get into the family business.

Speaking of law review and extracurriculars, what is recommended? What do most biglaw firms look for in this department, and how would I set myself apart from other UGA grads and grads from peer/higher ranked schools? It is my understanding to being on LR is very important, and I plan to try out for a journal no matter what school I attend. Are clubs, clinics, etc., important?

I also see that Emory's stats for 2009 NLJ 250 placement are 51/217 (23.5%). At such low percentages, is a difference of this magnitude (7.7%) important enough to justify the exponentially more expensive tuition and cost of living for Emory in Atlanta? Also, I often hear anecdotes from lawyers, students, and lay people that claim UGA's larger and more regional alumni base give the school's graduates enough pull to overcome the effect Emory's higher ranking has on its grads. I understand that Emory would definitely increase my biglaw chances in NYC, but would I still be looking at top 5-10%? And what about for Atlanta biglaw? Do they dig deeper into Emory's class than UGA's class? I would think that Emory graduates are more likely to be searching and competing for these biglaw jobs due to the higher accumulation of debt.

I hope this made sense, and I would like to state that my intentions are not to spark a UGA vs Emory debate or anything, just simply what kind of future, debt, prestige, etc. I could expect from UGA and if/to what extent Emory would increase/decrease chances for biglaw, especially in Atlanta and NYC.

[Sandro]

tag. I'm trying to find the same info, I was set on UGA instate until IU gave me 120k. I love Atlanta and am trying to decide what I really need to get a good job out of UGA.

[RPK34]

There's a thread on OCI where students from Emory in the top 20% were struggling to even get an interview, much less an offer. From reading through the thread, it sounds like top 5-10% was not even close to a guarantee of a job offer.

Also, if your expectations are a biglaw gig and then moving to a "less stressful" boutique firm, you're probably gonna be depressed in a few years. And your belief that UGA has lower big law placement because students just don't want it there is probably way off base.

[Autoaccept]

Not sure about "big law" per se, but I'm good friends with a 3L who admits only the top students are getting those elite jobs. He added, though, that no one is that stressed about it. Maybe this is a result of, like you suggested, those outside of the T14 not looking necessarily to work in "big law". Maybe, though, it's a result of the students having gotten such a great deal on law school and not being as desperate for that job to be lined up before graduation.

[Grizz]

Don't kid yourself bro, a ton of ATL students for UGA are gunning for biglaw. Combine this with:

1) ATL lost the most NLJ250 lawyers last yr out of any major market (7.5% I think).
2) ATL is a target for people who go to more or equivalently prestigious schools who have ties to the city (UVA, Duke, Vandy, Emory immediately come to mind).
3) Those NLJ250 stats are old, and it's probably less than 15.8% now

If you just want to be a lawyer in GA, UGA's a good choice. If you want ATL biglaw, then retaking and going to one of the above schools wouldn't be a bad idea. Emory will probably carry you farther out of state than UGA, depending on where else you have ties. I don't have much I can say about class rank, but I do know that very few people are getting those biglaw jobs compared to the people who want them.

[eandy]

I definitely read the OP and thought "flame." Why would you want to work biglaw THAT badly unless you had the kind of debt that makes it necessary? OP seems a little crazy.

[Pricer]

There's a thread on OCI where students from Emory in the top 20% were struggling to even get an interview, much less an offer. From reading through the thread, it sounds like top 5-10% was not even close to a guarantee of a job offer.

Also, if your expectations are a biglaw gig and then moving to a "less stressful" boutique firm, you're probably gonna be depressed in a few years. And your belief that UGA has lower big law placement because students just don't want it there is probably way off base.

Thanks for the info about Emory. I didn't know that. And you misunderstood what I was saying about the students not wanting big law. I did not mean that, using the 2009 number as an example, only around 15% wanted biglaw. I meant that the 15.8% who got the jobs maybe have been as deep in the class as 20-25%. It is possible that 5-10% of the top 25% preferred and took other jobs, especially at school where no one really expects biglaw.

Not sure about "big law" per se, but I'm good friends with a 3L who admits only the top students are getting those elite jobs. He added, though, that no one is that stressed about it. Maybe this is a result of, like you suggested, those outside of the T14 not looking necessarily to work in "big law". Maybe, though, it's a result of the students having gotten such a great deal on law school and not being as desperate for that job to be lined up before graduation.

Yeah, when you are graduating with 20% or less of the debt that you would from private schools or any of the T-14, it is not biglaw or bust.

Don't kid yourself bro, a ton of ATL students for UGA are gunning for biglaw. Combine this with:

1) ATL lost the most NLJ250 lawyers last yr out of any major market (7.5% I think).
2) ATL is a target for people who go to more or equivalently prestigious schools who have ties to the city (UVA, Duke, Vandy, Emory immediately come to mind).
3) Those NLJ250 stats are old, and it's probably less than 15.8% now

If you just want to be a lawyer in GA, UGA's a good choice. If you want ATL biglaw, then retaking and going to one of the above schools wouldn't be a bad idea. Emory will probably carry you farther out of state than UGA, depending on where else you have ties. I don't have much I can say about class rank, but I do know that very few people are getting those biglaw jobs compared to the people who want them.

Your conclusion is basically a rewording of my opening post, but your points are good, if true. I am not questioning their validity, I just haven't seen this figures and have heard a little differently from others.

1) I did not know that. It was my understanding that the secondary markets were not being hit very hard. I have heard numerous times that NYC has become the hot market again, but I did not think that Atlanta was losing that many lawyers.

2) You are definitely correct about Vanderbilt and Emory, hence why I applied to Vandy. I keep hearing conflicting things about Emory, though, so I believe that they will be direct competition, not automatically placed on a tier above UGA graduates like the other schools may be able to do. How much Duke and UVA presence is there in Atlanta? I was under the impression that both of the JDs from these schools aim for NYC/DC. I know that there will be some Duke and UVA presence, but will it be enough to make a significant difference to UGA graduate placement?

3) The stats are for the 2009 class. Wasn't 2010 around the same and even a tad bit better? Also, layoffs have been decreasing and firms are hiring again.

I definitely read the OP and thought "flame." Why would you want to work biglaw THAT badly unless you had the kind of debt that makes it necessary? OP seems a little crazy.

It is not biglaw or bust if I go to UGA, I was simply stating that I would like to get into it. I also applied to UVA (will be rejected), Cornell, UT, UCLA, Vandy, and USC. If I attend any of those, I know that my debt will be much greater and my biglaw prospects much better. I didn't bother to ask about those because this board and the school websites offer a much better picture of their graduates' biglaw future. There are enough threads comparing these schools and other T-14s that I can get any information I need through searching. There was a lot less information about UGA career prospects, especially the biglaw side. TLS provides everything I need to know about the T-14, most of what I need to know about the T-20, and then skeletal outlines of the rest.

[Grizz]

[quote="Pricer"

Don't kid yourself bro, a ton of ATL students for UGA are gunning for biglaw. Combine this with:

1) ATL lost the most NLJ250 lawyers last yr out of any major market (7.5% I think).
2) ATL is a target for people who go to more or equivalently prestigious schools who have ties to the city (UVA, Duke, Vandy, Emory immediately come to mind).
3) Those NLJ250 stats are old, and it's probably less than 15.8% now

If you just want to be a lawyer in GA, UGA's a good choice. If you want ATL biglaw, then retaking and going to one of the above schools wouldn't be a bad idea. Emory will probably carry you farther out of state than UGA, depending on where else you have ties. I don't have much I can say about class rank, but I do know that very few people are getting those biglaw jobs compared to the people who want them.

Your conclusion is basically a rewording of my opening post, but your points are good, if true. I am not questioning their validity, I just haven't seen this figures and have heard a little differently from others.

1) I did not know that. It was my understanding that the secondary markets were not being hit very hard. I have heard numerous times that NYC has become the hot market again, but I did not think that Atlanta was losing that many lawyers.

2) You are definitely correct about Vanderbilt and Emory, hence why I applied to Vandy. I keep hearing conflicting things about Emory, though, so I believe that they will be direct competition, not automatically placed on a tier above UGA graduates like the other schools may be able to do. How much Duke and UVA presence is there in Atlanta? I was under the impression that both of the JDs from these schools aim for NYC/DC. I know that there will be some Duke and UVA presence, but will it be enough to make a significant difference to UGA graduate placement?

3) The stats are for the 2009 class. Wasn't 2010 around the same and even a tad bit better? Also, layoffs have been decreasing and firms are hiring again.[/quote]

1) Naw, ATL is still bad bro. There was a link to it on Above the Law somewhere, but I can't find it right now. The job losses thing is real. I've been looking for jobs there, and NALP directory confirms hilariously reduced class sizes at big firms.

2) There are enough UVA and Duke people who want ATL to make it hard on UGA people, especially since while NYC is recovering, it's not really "back."

I'd take Emory over UGA assuming that you got a sizeable scholarship to Emory. Emory will do you better if ATL doesn't work out due to good name-brand recognition in more places. If ATL doesn't work out from UGA, enjoy Macon/Valdosta/Augusta/etc. The UGA vs. Emory debates for ATL on TLS are rampant. The theory that makes the most sense to me is that placement in ATL from both schools seem pretty close because in the past, a lot of the top Emory people bailed on ATL and went elsewhere. I don't think the difference between the two is worth paying anywhere near sticker to go to Emory though when UGA in-state is an option.

3) 2009 grads = 2007 OCI = before the crash, so we have no idea how bad it is really.

[MrKappus]

I'd take Emory over UGA assuming that you got a sizeable scholarship to Emory.

Compared to in-state tuition at UGA? This is pure stupidity.

[Grizz]

I'd take Emory over UGA assuming that you got a sizeable scholarship to Emory.

Compared to in-state tuition at UGA? This is pure stupidity.

Depends how much you get at Emory.

[eandy]

I'd take Emory over UGA assuming that you got a sizeable scholarship to Emory.

Compared to in-state tuition at UGA? This is pure stupidity.

lolwut.
If you get a sizeable scholarship at Emory it could be the same as or close to the cost of Emory. Believe me, as a UGA student, if I could have gotten $$$ at Emory I'd be there, not here. If it costs the same, it could be considered rather stupid to go to UGA over Emory.

[MrKappus]

I'd take Emory over UGA assuming that you got a sizeable scholarship to Emory.

Compared to in-state tuition at UGA? This is pure stupidity.

Depends how much you get at Emory.

$$ at Emory would mean full-ride at UGA. You'd have to be crazy to choose Emory, if ATL biglaw's the goal.

[Grizz]

I'd take Emory over UGA assuming that you got a sizeable scholarship to Emory.

Compared to in-state tuition at UGA? This is pure stupidity.

Depends how much you get at Emory.

$$ at Emory would mean full-ride at UGA. You'd have to be crazy to choose Emory, if ATL biglaw's the goal.

Not necessarily. They don't give full rides to out-of-staters.

[MrKappus]

I'd take Emory over UGA assuming that you got a sizeable scholarship to Emory.

Compared to in-state tuition at UGA? This is pure stupidity.

lolwut.
If you get a sizeable scholarship at Emory it could be the same as or close to the cost of Emory. Believe me, as a UGA student, if I could have gotten $$$ at Emory I'd be there, not here. If it costs the same, it could be considered rather stupid to go to UGA over Emory.

If they're the same price, it's a toss-up. If Emory costs more, UGA's alum network is worth way more, esp given Emory's nightmare OCI last year.

[MrKappus]

Not necessarily. They don't give full rides to out-of-staters.

I thought OP's in-state.

[eandy]

Not necessarily. They don't give full rides to out-of-staters.

I thought OP's in-state.

Good point. I forgot about that. I look at it from an OOS lens.

[Aqualibrium]

eandy, aren't you an UGA 2L? What was the OCI situation like?

[Grizz]

Not necessarily. They don't give full rides to out-of-staters.

I thought OP's in-state.

Good call. So a full ride is possible. Again, it all depends on how much Emory is giving him.

[MrKappus]

Not necessarily. They don't give full rides to out-of-staters.

I thought OP's in-state.

Good call. So a full ride is possible. Again, it all depends on how much Emory is giving him.

I guess. I came on too strong and wasn't careful enough w/ my advice...

Should've said if OP's (1) in-state, (2) wants ATL biglaw, and (3) Emory isn't cheaper...OP should go to UGA.

Look up ATL firms, whether it's an office like Paul Hastings or a HQ like King & Spalding, and you'll find more UGA grads than Emory ones. Sure self-selection's a big part of it, but it also means (1) UGA's network's bigger (in ATL) (2) you have a greater chance of interviewing w/ a UGA grad, (3) you spent less $$ on law school, and (4) you didn't have to face Emory's so-not-worth-it OCI (at least based on reports from last year).

[eandy]

eandy, aren't you an UGA 2L? What was the OCI situation like?

1L. I am still blissfully ignorant.

[Pricer]

I am in state with 3.69/169. I don't think Emory would offer enough money to make it cheaper than UGA.

[MrKappus]

I am in state with 3.69/169. I don't think Emory would offer enough money to make it cheaper than UGA.

And all prior advice is canceled out by "w/ those #'s, you should just bite the bullet and pay $ for lower T14 or Vandy."

[Grizz]

I am in state with 3.69/169. I don't think Emory would offer enough money to make it cheaper than UGA.

Enjoy Vanderbilt bro.

[Pricer]

I am in state with 3.69/169. I don't think Emory would offer enough money to make it cheaper than UGA.

And all prior advice is canceled out by "w/ those #'s, you should just bite the bullet and pay $ for lower T14 or Vandy."

Texas and Vandy are my top choices at the moment. Vandy would set me up for NYC or Atlanta, and UT would set me up in Houston or Dallas.

I am in state with 3.69/169. I don't think Emory would offer enough money to make it cheaper than UGA.

Enjoy Vanderbilt bro.

According to LSN and the acceptance thread, I'm looking at a WL. If I get WLed, I will probably withdraw my application, because most of the time WL -- > no $. I don't know that I would be willing to attend Vandy and live in Nashville on nothing but loans.

[Grizz]

Enjoy Vanderbilt bro.

According to LSN and the acceptance thread, I'm looking at a WL. If I get WLed, I will probably withdraw my application, because most of the time WL -- > no $. I don't know that I would be willing to attend Vandy and live in Nashville on nothing but loans.

You could get WL or in, depending on how good your other admissions stuff is. That's just how Vandy works.