4th Tier Full Ride? Forum

[JRS0924]

Hi everyone! So I seem to have a dilemma. I have applied to 14 schools for Fall 2011. So far I've been accepted to 3 and I am waiting on the other 11. Every school I have been accepted to has given me at least a 3rd of the cost of attendance in scholarships. But, yesterday, I found out that I was accepted to Valparaiso University on a full tuition scholarship. I am conflicted because legal professionals I have spoken with are split between telling me to go to the highest ranked school I get into and telling me that it really doesn't matter where I go to law school because all that will matter is how hard I work.

I love the idea of being able to go to law school and come out with minimal debt (books and living expenses). Lord only knows how much debt I've racked up in undergrad. But I'm afraid that I will be screwing myself over by going to such a low ranked school. One pro I guess of attending VU is that I suspect that it will be a lot less competitive grade-wise and I'll be able to stay at the top of my class. But would that even matter coming from that school?

I'm still waiting to hear from Duke, Illinois, Iowa, Indiana, Wisconsin, Loyola, Marquette, Minnesota, Northwestern, Cornell, and Chicago-Kent. If by some miracle I actually get into one of the Top-14 schools, I KNOW I won't get any aid. So I guess my question is, should I go for the free ride or should I prepare to take on $150,000 of debt in the name of prestige?

[Curry]

Think about it this way.

If your only costs are COL and books, you're gonna be 75k in the hole. Coming out of a TTTT, you are going to make 40-55k if you are lucky enough to get a job. Thats 4-5 years of paying off the debt. Couple that with the fact that you can get a job making 35-50k with just your undergrad degree, the opportunity cost of you going to law school for three years is close to 180k, assuming you don't get large pay raises. By the time you leave law school, you could already be making 50k+ with your undergrad job. Thus the total net-worth of these four years on your life is close to -180k and you will never be able to make it up.

tl;dr: stay away from a TTTT. Retake the LSAT and go to a better school.

[JRS0924]

Interesting point--thanks!

[northwood]

what are your numbers? While its great to hear your full tuition scholly, what are teh conditions to keep this?

While its possible to do well enough to keep your scholarship, it is foolhardly to think that you will outwork/ outperform all of your peers. If you are going into the school planning on transferring, plan on matriculating at a better school. Transferring is very hard, and very unpredictable to do. Re think you strategy.

Plan on going to the best and most cost effective school in the region you want to live and work. anything else is a recipe for an epic fail.

[JRS0924]

4.0/163/URM

[northwood]

you will get in a decent school.

wait for more results, then start making your decisions

[Adjudicator]

Yeah, don't go to this school... you can do better for sure. Even if you end up having to pay more, go to a school that will help you get a good job.

[pinkzeppelin]

4.0/163/URM

you should be able to get into T14 with money. Don't bother with this T4 bs.

[superflush]

4.0/163/URM

You'll get a full ride (or near full-ride) at T1 schools.

[20160810]

A degree from a T4 school will hold you back your entire law career. The only way I'd do this is if I got a full ride PLUS rent stipend so that I could literally graduate with zero debt, and even then it would only be a decent move (1) in an isolated market like North Dakota where I wouldn't be at a huge marginal disadvantage and (2) if I couldn't get a big scholarship from a higher-ranked school. You'd be surprised what can get $$$. I had meh T25 numbers, and ended up getting a lot of money from a T1 school and full rides from T2/TTT schools. Dabbling in the 4th tier just never feels necessary to me.

[20160810]

4.0/163/URM

Oh god I didn't even see this. FORGET about the 4th tier. Now. If you attend a school ranked lower than about 30, you're insane. Even then you're HIGHLY competitive for big scholarships at schools like Wisconsin, UC Davis, UGA, etc. T14 is entirely possible if you're willing to take on the debt. Don't even think about any school ranked lower than 50 with these numbers, seriously.

[vanwinkle]

4.0/163/URM

Get apps into all the remaining T14 schools you didn't yet apply to. Now. Including HYS. UCLA/UT/BC/BU as backups if you want them, they'll throw more $$$ at you than the Fed does at Wall Street. Going to a Tier-4 school would be the dumbest mistake of your life and handicap you permanently when you could be doing so much more.

[Danteshek]

A girl in my transfer class at Loyola LA came from VU. She fell for the same offer. It was obviously a huge mistake. Go to the best school you can get into in the region you want to practice.

[romothesavior]

Oh my. Remove thoughts of the T4 from your head now.

You will get a full ride to most tier 1 schools. Half the schools you just listed will be giving you full rides.

And VW is right, you should apply to the entire T14. You could be getting scholarships to T14 schools with your numbers and URM status.

[ggocat]

4.0/163/URM

You will get a full ride at Iowa.

[starrydreamz3]

While there isn't a huge sample size of URMs with your numbers from last year, this guy's cycle could be encouraging -

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/soanxious

URM Male, 3.95/164, Ivy

His was a little hit or miss, but that only lends credence to the idea you should start blanketing applications. He also applied somewhat earlier in the cycle, so get on it!

[angiej]

I agree with the previous posters that the OP is likely to receive other scholarship offers to higher ranked schools. That said, I think we all need to keep in mind that even grads from T1 schools are not finding jobs as easily as they once did (and in some cases, not at all). That said, there is certainly some value in choosing affordability over rank. It also depends on what you want to do with your law degree. A wise lawyer who is a sole practicioner once told me, "I've never had a client ask me which law school I graduated from, and the fact I didn't have any law school debt allowed me to be my own boss, which is what I always desired."

[romothesavior]

I agree with the previous posters that the OP is likely to receive other scholarship offers to higher ranked schools. That said, I think we all need to keep in mind that even grads from T1 schools are not finding jobs as easily as they once did (and in some cases, not at all). That said, there is certainly some value in choosing affordability over rank. It also depends on what you want to do with your law degree. A wise lawyer who is a sole practicioner once told me, "I've never had a client ask me which law school I graduated from, and the fact I didn't have any law school debt allowed me to be my own boss, which is what I always desired."

The important point you are missing is that OP will get full rides to a bunch of top 20-30 schools. Why would you even consider taking a full ride to a T4 when you have multiple full rides to top 20 school and substantial scholarships to T14s?

[angiej]

I agree with the previous posters that the OP is likely to receive other scholarship offers to higher ranked schools. That said, I think we all need to keep in mind that even grads from T1 schools are not finding jobs as easily as they once did (and in some cases, not at all). That said, there is certainly some value in choosing affordability over rank. It also depends on what you want to do with your law degree. A wise lawyer who is a sole practicioner once told me, "I've never had a client ask me which law school I graduated from, and the fact I didn't have any law school debt allowed me to be my own boss, which is what I always desired."

The important point you are missing is that OP will get full rides to a bunch of top 20-30 schools. Why would you even consider taking a full ride to a T4 when you have multiple full rides to top 20 school and substantial scholarships to T14s?

Hmmmm. Did you miss the very first sentence of my post?

[Adjudicator]

I agree with the previous posters that the OP is likely to receive other scholarship offers to higher ranked schools. That said, I think we all need to keep in mind that even grads from T1 schools are not finding jobs as easily as they once did (and in some cases, not at all). That said, there is certainly some value in choosing affordability over rank. It also depends on what you want to do with your law degree. A wise lawyer who is a sole practicioner once told me, "I've never had a client ask me which law school I graduated from, and the fact I didn't have any law school debt allowed me to be my own boss, which is what I always desired."

There, I fixed it for you.

[Total Litigator]

4.0/163/URM!?!?!?!?!

Holy F'n cr**p. If you are an AA, you are a lock for the T14. Even if you're not an AA (Hispanic, Native American), you are probably still a lock for the T14. If going to a school like Duke, UVA, or U Penn appeals to you, for the love of God wait another cycle. If you can get a 165+ you will be competitive for Harvard and Yale....

[UnTouChablE]

Are you kidding?!? Don't go to a TTTT when you can get T-14!

Plz, dont go. I will actually be sad!

[edubs003]

I can't imagine someone turning down a T14 with some money for a T4 with alot of money. Go to the better school. The debt will work out for you.