Money v. Ranking Question Forum

[thescuba]

Guys,

I've been poking around here for quite sometime but have never posted anything before.

I just recently took my LSATs and now am beginning the process of applying to schools.

I am currently a resident of Virginia. Would it be better to attend a school like UVA (which is ~40,000k+ for in-state tuition) or the other in-state schools (George Mason, William and Mary, etc - which are considerably less expensive). Or possibly a lower ranking school that would give me the most money?

Everything that I have heard regarding the current job market with the legal realm is that you can't get a great job unless you finish in the top of a top school. So I'm a bit weary of the attending a school that would cause me to come out of it with tremendous debt.

I know this is a vague question, but would it be better to come out from a t14 school with a lot of debt, or attend a school somewhere in the 25-75 rankings (where debt would possibly be minimized)?

Also, in case this is a factor, I'm not sure if I really want to be working for a huge firm. I currently work for one now, and I'm not sure if that is the direction I want to go.

Any suggestions/information would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

[jackalope11]

I think it would depend on your own personal level of debt aversion, as well as how mobile you would like to be as soon as you graduate.

If you are highly debt averse, and would like to stay close to your school, then take the $$ and go with the cheaper option.

If you would like to be more mobile (i.e. more options further away from your school) and don't mind perhaps making income based loan payments, then look to the larger schools.

HTH.

(I believe that there are some older threads on this topic that might also be able to offer more insight/detail)

[emorystud2010]

.

[Rowinguy2009]

Personally I took a full ride over some (slightly) higher ranked schools, but to each their own. Once you apply to schools and have some offers in hand a few will undoubtebly rise to the top of your list of choices.

[thescuba]

Thanks for the replies. I had checked out a few past threads on this topic. I had just wanted to get a bit more specific within the UVA v. Mason, William and Mary, etc.

[reverendt]

As somebody else said, if you're dead set on biglaw or fed clerkships go to UVM. Your chances of attaining those goals are probaby 2 or 3 times greater than at the other schools.
If you know you want to work in the VA area and you aren't set on biglaw/fed clerkships, seriously consider the $$$.

[pjo]

Thanks for the replies. I had checked out a few past threads on this topic. I just wanted to get a bit more specific within the UVA v. Mason, William and Mary, etc.

Where do you want to work? DC or just VA (read Richmond/Hampton/Newport News etc.)

FWIW I'm very itnerested in these schools too, but I don't have in state . If anyone knows, can they chime in on how GMU grads do in No.Va? Not too familiar with the area, what kind of jobs would one be looking at in Alexandria/Arlington/Falls Church etc?

[bpas]

I'm trying to make the same decision. I'm applying this fall but from other people who I've talked to I could get a 1/2 to 3/4 scholarship to Michigan State or go to a school like Notre Dame, Illinois, or Indiana with very little if any scholarship. Right now everyone that I've talked to said if I want to stay in Michigan I could get a good job at a firm in Michigan from MSU, but if I was interested in working out of state to go to one of the other ones. Right now I'm leaning at MSU.

[thescuba]

Thanks for the replies. I had checked out a few past threads on this topic. I just wanted to get a bit more specific within the UVA v. Mason, William and Mary, etc.

Where do you want to work? DC or just VA (read Richmond/Hampton/Newport News etc.)

FWIW I'm very itnerested in these schools too, but I don't have in state

I'm open to possibly relocating, but I have lived in Northern VA/DC Area most of my schooling life, so I wouldn't mind staying up in this area. I did attend UVA for undergrad, which is why I would love to go back there. I don't really have any interest in the tidewater/Richmond region though, which may rule out a few schools? - if they are considered regional schools.

[deadhipsters]

I think maybe W&M might be worth considering. But, if you had the numbers to make it into UVA then I would take GMU of the list eniterly. What are your numbers? It is hard to give advice without this.

[berkeleykel06]

I think maybe W&M might be worth considering. But, if you had the numbers to make it into UVA then I would take GMU of the list eniterly. What are your numbers? It is hard to give advice without this.

Yes, I wouldn't consider GMU if you could get into UVA. Especially because the highest scholarship they offer is $15k.

[pjo]

Thanks for the replies. I had checked out a few past threads on this topic. I just wanted to get a bit more specific within the UVA v. Mason, William and Mary, etc.

Where do you want to work? DC or just VA (read Richmond/Hampton/Newport News etc.)

FWIW I'm very itnerested in these schools too, but I don't have in state

I'm open to possibly relocating, but I have lived in Northern VA/DC Area most of my schooling life, so I wouldn't mind staying up in this area. I did attend UVA for undergrad, which is why I would love to go back there. I don't really have any interest in the tidewater/Richmond region though, which may rule out a few schools? - if they are considered regional schools.

Not really, I only asked bc if thats what you wanted then W&M would def. have been the right option. As far as DC, unless you get a full ride to W&M I personally would go to UVA. DC seems like a tough egg to crack and UVA would def up your options. I think in that case it'd be worth it. As far as NoVA, idk. hence my previous post asking ppl. I know a few years ago Mason was great for firms in NoVA, I'm just nto sure how much thats changed since the recession. Also, not sure size of firms and oppurtunity available in the area right now which also affects career prospects for GMU. (Once again would love for someone else to say something about this bc I'd like to know). OP, if you have numbers for UVA did you consider applying to GW? Depending on your numbers you could ED there which grants a full ride.

[thescuba]

I think maybe W&M might be worth considering. But, if you had the numbers to make it into UVA then I would take GMU of the list eniterly. What are your numbers? It is hard to give advice without this.

Well my numbers aren't stellar (3.2 GPA from UVA, 160 LSAT, 2 years WE from a lawfirm in DC), but I might have some pull at the in-state schools, particularly UVA and GMU.

I'm not sure if I could get into either yet, but I figured I'd probe the opinions of others. It may help me gear as to where I would apply (even if it is some school out of state, that I would potentially get decent compensation from).

[pjo]

I think maybe W&M might be worth considering. But, if you had the numbers to make it into UVA then I would take GMU of the list eniterly. What are your numbers? It is hard to give advice without this.

Well my numbers aren't stellar (3.2 GPA from UVA, 160 LSAT, 2 years WE from a lawfirm in DC), but I might have some pull at the in-state schools, particularly UVA and GMU.

I'm not sure if I could get into either yet, but I figured I'd probe the opinions of others. It may help me gear as to where I would apply (even if it is some school out of state, that I would potentially get decent compensation from).

Sorry to burst your bubble but UVA isn't going to happen (unless you're an under represented minority-URM). W&M and GMU are going to be somewhat of a stretch too, GMU will prob let you in though bc of the in-state bump. Your best option is to either retake your LSAT and score higher if you think you can, if not then If you want to stay in VA you're probably going to have to go to University of Richmond - who will probably give you a very small amount of money.

[deadhipsters]

Yea, even as an instate resident you'd be lucky to get into any of those schools.I'd say UVA is out. That said, retake the LSAT, because in-state residency in VA is too good to waste. 5 points put you in at GMU and possibly W&M. Get another 10 and ED at UVA.

[thescuba]

I think maybe W&M might be worth considering. But, if you had the numbers to make it into UVA then I would take GMU of the list eniterly. What are your numbers? It is hard to give advice without this.

Well my numbers aren't stellar (3.2 GPA from UVA, 160 LSAT, 2 years WE from a lawfirm in DC), but I might have some pull at the in-state schools, particularly UVA and GMU.

I'm not sure if I could get into either yet, but I figured I'd probe the opinions of others. It may help me gear as to where I would apply (even if it is some school out of state, that I would potentially get decent compensation from).

Sorry to burst your bubble but UVA isn't going to happen (unless you're an under represented minority-URM). W&M and GMU are going to be somewhat of a stretch too, GMU will prob let you in though bc of the in-state bump. Your best option is to either retake your LSAT and score higher if you think you can, if not then If you want to stay in VA you're probably going to have to go to University of Richmond - who will probably give you a very small amount of money.

No bubble was bursted. The question was purely hypothetical. I just keep hearing so many horror stories about the market today that I was curious if attending a school with 40K tuition, but a higher ranking was worth it.

[berkeleykel06]

I think maybe W&M might be worth considering. But, if you had the numbers to make it into UVA then I would take GMU of the list eniterly. What are your numbers? It is hard to give advice without this.

Well my numbers aren't stellar (3.2 GPA from UVA, 160 LSAT, 2 years WE from a lawfirm in DC), but I might have some pull at the in-state schools, particularly UVA and GMU.

I'm not sure if I could get into either yet, but I figured I'd probe the opinions of others. It may help me gear as to where I would apply (even if it is some school out of state, that I would potentially get decent compensation from).

Sorry to burst your bubble but UVA isn't going to happen (unless you're an under represented minority-URM). W&M and GMU are going to be somewhat of a stretch too, GMU will prob let you in though bc of the in-state bump. Your best option is to either retake your LSAT and score higher if you think you can, if not then If you want to stay in VA you're probably going to have to go to University of Richmond - who will probably give you a very small amount of money.

I don't think so. It seems OP would need a 164+ for GMU. Retake.

[pjo]

OP, I see you've worked for a big firm in DC. If you don't mind me aksing, what job have you done there? paralegal? I'm just wording what kind of connections you've made. I think depending on those connections maybe you could use them to help get you a summer position during school and even a job after. If that were the case, maybe you could pull of going to Richmond or GMU and still landing a good job.

[thescuba]

I'm still curious as to what you guys would think with regards to my original general question (even if my numbers don't add up, i'd still be interested in everyone's opinions nonetheless).

[pjo]

I'm still curious as to what you guys would think with regards to my original general question (even if my numbers don't add up, i'd still be interested in everyone's opinions nonetheless).

fair enough, you never answered my question though. Do you want to work actually in DC or in NoVa. What type of work do you want to do. And what type of professional legal connections do you have in the area?

[deadhipsters]

If you get accepted to UVA. You go. Only possible exception is a full ride to W&M. UVA opens doors that would be closed to 95 percent of all law students.

[thescuba]

I'm still curious as to what you guys would think with regards to my original general question (even if my numbers don't add up, i'd still be interested in everyone's opinions nonetheless).

fair enough, you never answered my question though. Do you want to work actually in DC or in NoVa. What type of work do you want to do. And what type of professional legal connections do you have in the area?

I would probably prefer VA, but not oppossed to DC. As with type of work, I'm still trying to figure that out. I'm not sure if I'd rather be in a bigger firm than a smaller firm in a smaller market. And with regards to professional connections, I guess there's always a possibility of some sort of additional help with finding jobs up here in the DC area. I guess that could have some factor in on my decision though.

[pjo]

If you get accepted to UVA. You go. Only possible exception is a full ride to W&M. UVA opens doors that would be closed to 95 percent of all law students.

yea I think this is true for the majority of applicants. Just as "buyer beware" though, there were several UVA grads that finished at median this year that had no jobs lined up upon graduation...which I think anyone thinking of UVA sticker (me, if I get admitted) should at least be aware of.

[thescuba]

If you get accepted to UVA. You go. Only possible exception is a full ride to W&M. UVA opens doors that would be closed to 95 percent of all law students.

yea I think this is true for the majority of applicants. Just as "buyer beware" though, there were several UVA grads that finished at median this year that had no jobs lined up upon graduation...which I think anyone thinking of UVA sticker (me, if I get admitted) should at least be aware of.

Yep. I haven talked to a several individuals myself who have graduated from the DC area schools, and have not found work. Granted they probably were not top of their class, though.

[pjo]

If you get accepted to UVA. You go. Only possible exception is a full ride to W&M. UVA opens doors that would be closed to 95 percent of all law students.

yea I think this is true for the majority of applicants. Just as "buyer beware" though, there were several UVA grads that finished at median this year that had no jobs lined up upon graduation...which I think anyone thinking of UVA sticker (me, if I get admitted) should at least be aware of.

Yep. I haven talked to a several individuals myself who have graduated from the DC area schools, and have not found work. Granted they probably were not top of their class, though.

yea its a double edged sword. If you go there, like one poster said, you're going to have the potential to land jobs that you wouldn't have access to if you had graduated from another school. On the flip side, theres no guarantee you won't end up with no job and a mound of debt. It's a risk, but I have to think (from my life expereince at least) that bigger risk often entails bigger rewards (but also potentially bigger fails)