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[clevinger33]

You went to Rice? What college?

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[Danteshek]

Go to UT.

Btw, this is the guy representing Frank McCourt in the Dodgers case

http://www.susmangodfrey.com/?id=146

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[clevinger33]

You went to Rice? What college?

I guess that was too obvious. Baker!

Cool. Sid '10 here.

I know a lot of alums in a similar situation, and I think your analysis is pretty much correct, although UVA seems to place pretty well in Texas. The truth is, Texas firms (especially Houston ones) will look pretty favorably upon a Rice UG degree, so any T14 school should give you a pretty good chance of getting big law in Tejas. If we're talking pure sticker prices, I'd attend HYSCCNMBPV and maybe D over UT, but definitely not Cornell or Georgetown. Given money at UT (and instate tuition? is that possible?) I'd limit yourself to CCN and up for sticker prices.

As far as I'm concerned, it's just a matter of how debt averse/prestige whorish you are. I'd certainly pay sticker at HYS over a full ride at UT, but anything beyond that I think it's pretty much up to you. As I said, the Rice UG degree should help you a lot.

[kalvano]

Do you have ties to Texas? Are you from there?

UT is probably the correct choice, though UVA seems to have a pretty strong presence in Texas as well.

See what kind of money you can squeeze out of the T14 and maybe Vanderbilt. Then compare options.

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[kalvano]

Do you have ties to Texas? Are you from there?

UT is probably the correct choice, though UVA seems to have a pretty strong presence in Texas as well.

See what kind of money you can squeeze out of the T14 and maybe Vanderbilt. Then compare options.

Yea I have pretty strong ties/family here in Texas. How do you feel about HYSCCN at sticker versus UT with in-state(money)? Then again sticker won't be sticker hopefully with need-based aid. And obviously, those 6 schools would be long shots/reaches.

Obviously, H/Y/S are no-brainers. Go and be thankful. I'd probably add Columbia to that list too.

After that, since you have strong Texas ties, it's really up to you. I wouldn't pay sticker at any of the other schools if you know you want to come back and work in Texas. If you were shooting for D.C. or NYC, then they would be worth it. You'll get some nice money at several good schools, and since you have Texas ties, the difference between say, Penn and UVA, will be negligible.

You're in an enviable position in that you will be able to pick and choose to a good degree. See what offers you get, visit some schools and see where you're comfortable, and go from there.

[soonergirl]

Do you have ties to Texas? Are you from there?

UT is probably the correct choice, though UVA seems to have a pretty strong presence in Texas as well.

See what kind of money you can squeeze out of the T14 and maybe Vanderbilt. Then compare options.

Yea I have pretty strong ties/family here in Texas. How do you feel about HYSCCN at sticker versus UT with in-state(money)? Then again sticker won't be sticker hopefully with need-based aid. And obviously, those 6 schools would be long shots/reaches.

Hi, SN. I was in a similar situation to yours a year ago. I ended up deciding on UT, so take all this with a twenty-pound bag of rock salt, but here's my couple of cents for what it's worth...

1: I think a lot of us, in retrospect, would suggest that you go ahead and psychologically write off HYS now. The economy's so bad that apps are way up and those numbers just aren't high enough. Also, as unfair as it is, I'm afraid your ORM status is going to hurt you.

2: This is absolutely the kind of market where you want to minimize debt. The less debt you have, the more flexibility you have in fielding whatever offers are out there at the end of school.

3: You already know you want to practice in Texas, and you know UT offers an unparalleled opportunity to network with future Texas attorneys, and you know they're going to give you the opportunity to finish with less than 40k in debt. (You will get the $80k merit package from UT, plus whatever need-based aid they offer you.)

4: Your numbers will put you at like the top 5-10% of incoming UT students, and although those numbers aren't necessarily predictive, they sure give the impression that you'd have an awfully good shot at finishing top 20% at UT. I'm not sure I would want to pay twice as much to go to a school outside the region, where prestige is a guarantee, but success is less likely.

Anyway, I'm guessing you've already thought through all this. In the end, none of us can tell you what's best for you. Just reflect on your own goals and priorities, wait and see what scholarship offers come in, visit a few shools, and more than likely it will become clear what's the best fit for you.

good luck!

[mah2012]

UT. Every attorney I've ever spoken to here says it's unnecessary to go somewhere of a higher rank if you want to practice in Texas, and especially silly if you get money from UT, have in-state tuition, or both.

[kalvano]

UT will be great in Texas. However, if you have the opportunity to go somewhere else like T14 for the same or not much more, it certainly won't hurt you in Texas. And things change, dreams and aspirations change. If you find yourself not wanting to stay in Texas, a T14 will be much more useful.

[sternc]

I'm going through this exact decision making process as we speak. Honestly, I'm at wits end.

[DoubleChecks]

UT. Every attorney I've ever spoken to here says it's unnecessary to go somewhere of a higher rank if you want to practice in Texas, and especially silly if you get money from UT, have in-state tuition, or both.

maybe true coming from attorneys that have been practicing for awhile, but not necessarily true ITE

though im really just looking at HYS when i say that comment haha (and maybe C or even UVA)

[bigben]

T14 is probably better. UT can't be placing more than 40% into biglaw ITE. Probably much less. You'll have a lot less intra-school competition for TX firms coming from a T14. Cornell might be an exception since they seem just too distant institutionally, and probably same for GULC since they are so massive.

[DoubleChecks]

Hi, SN. I was in a similar situation to yours a year ago. I ended up deciding on UT, so take all this with a twenty-pound bag of rock salt, but here's my couple of cents for what it's worth...

1: I think a lot of us, in retrospect, would suggest that you go ahead and psychologically write off HYS now. The economy's so bad that apps are way up and those numbers just aren't high enough. Also, as unfair as it is, I'm afraid your ORM status is going to hurt you.

2: This is absolutely the kind of market where you want to minimize debt. The less debt you have, the more flexibility you have in fielding whatever offers are out there at the end of school.

3: You already know you want to practice in Texas, and you know UT offers an unparalleled opportunity to network with future Texas attorneys, and you know they're going to give you the opportunity to finish with less than 40k in debt. (You will get the $80k merit package from UT, plus whatever need-based aid they offer you.)

4: Your numbers will put you at like the top 5-10% of incoming UT students, and although those numbers aren't necessarily predictive, they sure give the impression that you'd have an awfully good shot at finishing top 20% at UT. I'm not sure I would want to pay twice as much to go to a school outside the region, where prestige is a guarantee, but success is less likely.

Anyway, I'm guessing you've already thought through all this. In the end, none of us can tell you what's best for you. Just reflect on your own goals and priorities, wait and see what scholarship offers come in, visit a few shools, and more than likely it will become clear what's the best fit for you.

good luck!

mm i have to respond:

1. not true, his GPA is high. JR took over for HLS admissions and he seems to favor GPA over LSAT, i.e. plenty of 3.9+/170 LSAT got in...or better said, i would like my chances better as a 3.9/170 than a 3.7/176 (trading 75th percentiles, roughly) for HLS, if this yr's cycle is any indication of how JR is going to proceed from here on out

2. i agree, minimize debt -- but UT is a risk these days (unless you get a full ride either w/ scholly or financial aid or combination of the two)...i know a lot of recent graduates (anecdotal evidence, i know) who have been very upset by their job prospects...and TX did a lot better than most other states during this past recession! but overall, yes, less debt = better...but you seem to be confident about financial aid, which HLS can give you...dont forget LRAP stuff either (which generally tends to be better at T3 vs T20 schools, but i honestly havent looked into the subject)

3. you get to stand out w/ a HLS degree...esp. if you already have strong ties to TX. current HLS students tell me that, even w/ roughly median grades, they are not having any trouble (even ITE) finding biglaw firms interested in them for SA positions. cant say the same for the UT law grads ive spoken to. but once again, anecdotal.

4. predictive at best. law schools have luck built into the grading system (to some degree)...i just dont know if the stress of needing good grades = something you would want. HLS virtually does not have grades, just High passes (37%), passes (rest excluding possible LPs), and low passes (discretionary, so possibly up to 8% but also possibly 0%).

i went through the same decision and came to choose HLS for the above reasons. ive grown up in TX, went to a TX ugrad, and 100% plan on coming back here. will i regret my decision? hopefully not, but ill let you know in 3 yrs

fyi, when i was choosing, for personal reasons i didnt apply to YS. for me, preference was 1. HLS, 2. Columbia (w/ some money hopefully), 3. UT (I got over half merit scholly and in-state) roughly tied w/ NYU (also more than half merit scholly)...UVA was 4th but somewhat of a distant one.

good luck w/ your choice sn! nothing is glaringly wrong if you get into all of these schools though haha (assuming x $$)

[soonergirl]

mm i have to respond:

1. not true, his GPA is high. JR took over for HLS admissions and he seems to favor GPA over LSAT, i.e. plenty of 3.9+/170 LSAT got in...or better said, i would like my chances better as a 3.9/170 than a 3.7/176 (trading 75th percentiles, roughly) for HLS, if this yr's cycle is any indication of how JR is going to proceed from here on out

2. i agree, minimize debt -- but UT is a risk these days (unless you get a full ride either w/ scholly or financial aid or combination of the two)...i know a lot of recent graduates (anecdotal evidence, i know) who have been very upset by their job prospects...and TX did a lot better than most other states during this past recession! but overall, yes, less debt = better...but you seem to be confident about financial aid, which HLS can give you...dont forget LRAP stuff either (which generally tends to be better at T3 vs T20 schools, but i honestly havent looked into the subject)

3. you get to stand out w/ a HLS degree...esp. if you already have strong ties to TX. current HLS students tell me that, even w/ roughly median grades, they are not having any trouble (even ITE) finding biglaw firms interested in them for SA positions. cant say the same for the UT law grads ive spoken to. but once again, anecdotal.

4. predictive at best. law schools have luck built into the grading system (to some degree)...i just dont know if the stress of needing good grades = something you would want. HLS virtually does not have grades, just High passes (37%), passes (rest excluding possible LPs), and low passes (discretionary, so possibly up to 8% but also possibly 0%).

i went through the same decision and came to choose HLS for the above reasons. ive grown up in TX, went to a TX ugrad, and 100% plan on coming back here. will i regret my decision? hopefully not, but ill let you know in 3 yrs

fyi, when i was choosing, for personal reasons i didnt apply to YS. for me, preference was 1. HLS, 2. Columbia (w/ some money hopefully), 3. UT (I got over half merit scholly and in-state) roughly tied w/ NYU (also more than half merit scholly)...UVA was 4th but somewhat of a distant one.

good luck w/ your choice sn! nothing is glaringly wrong if you get into all of these schools though haha (assuming x $$)

I think you missed my point. I was writing about the choice between Texas versus numbers 4-14; not Texas versus 1-3.

obviously, admission to HYS would make the choice easy. I just don't think that's likely going to be an option for an Asian-American with marginal numbers. OTOH, he's coming from a strong undergraduate program and if he applies on the first day of admissions, it may work out. In that case, by all means go to Harvard.

Me, I would have absolutely gone for Stanford at sticker. But I didn't get in, and I wasn't interested in the others, so I opted for the financial solvency and world-class football at UT.

[DoubleChecks]

I think you missed my point. I was writing about the choice between Texas versus numbers 4-14; not Texas versus 1-3.

obviously, admission to HYS would make the choice easy. I just don't think that's likely going to be an option for an Asian-American with marginal numbers. OTOH, he's coming from a strong undergraduate program and if he applies on the first day of admissions, it may work out. In that case, by all means go to Harvard.

Me, I would have absolutely gone for Stanford at sticker. But I didn't get in, and I wasn't interested in the others, so I opted for the financial solvency and world-class football at UT.

sorry, i hadnt realized you meant 4-14, i assumed you meant 1-14 as that was what OP generally was asking about.

i wouldnt say admission to HYS makes it 'easy' -- esp. if we dont know the money situation for OP. if he ends up getting very little to go to HS (okay, YLS is prob easy lol), yet full ride to UT, id peg it at closer to a 50/50 choice. comes down to preference and even what he wants to do, i.e. academia? then UT no go in that scenario. something else? maybe not then

i dont think being Asian American hurts him for law school (it prob would for undergrad)...it certainly wont help him, but i dont think it really noticeably hurts him (if at all). 3.9/170 are marginal numbers, but like i said, JR seems to like those numbers, so if he really comes up w/ a strong overall package, it is a reasonable shot.

ps - oh yeah definitely cant go wrong w/ UT football

i still cry a little on the inside every time i think back about colt's BCS game injury...or gideon's slippery arms

[Bosque]

ps - oh yeah definitely cant go wrong w/ UT football

I strenuously disagree with this statement.

But other than some lamentable taste in sports teams, most of the advice in this thread is fine. If you want Texas, UT is a great school. If they offer you more money than any of the T14, you would not be crazy to go there. However, if any of them but Georgetown or Cornell match your UT offer, I would think it over before you make the decision.

Good luck!

[nealric]

Being from Texas, I strongly disagree with the conventional wisdom around here that UT beats all but HYSCCN (at least for biglaw). Local kids who go to top schools are a much more rare commodity, and are generally treated very well in Texas biglaw. Even GULC is often given preference over UT (I witnessed this first hand). With the tuition hikes at UT, the cost difference is becoming less and less as UT transitions into essentially a state-endorsed private school like UVA or Mich.

So, assuming sticker price, I think the T10 are a clear choice above UT. T11-14 are slightly more iffy, but If pushed I would still recommend those over UT.

[bigben]

Hi, SN. I was in a similar situation to yours a year ago. I ended up deciding on UT, so take all this with a twenty-pound bag of rock salt, but here's my couple of cents for what it's worth...

1: I think a lot of us, in retrospect, would suggest that you go ahead and psychologically write off HYS now. The economy's so bad that apps are way up and those numbers just aren't high enough. Also, as unfair as it is, I'm afraid your ORM status is going to hurt you.

2: This is absolutely the kind of market where you want to minimize debt. The less debt you have, the more flexibility you have in fielding whatever offers are out there at the end of school.

3: You already know you want to practice in Texas, and you know UT offers an unparalleled opportunity to network with future Texas attorneys, and you know they're going to give you the opportunity to finish with less than 40k in debt. (You will get the $80k merit package from UT, plus whatever need-based aid they offer you.)

4: Your numbers will put you at like the top 5-10% of incoming UT students, and although those numbers aren't necessarily predictive, they sure give the impression that you'd have an awfully good shot at finishing top 20% at UT. I'm not sure I would want to pay twice as much to go to a school outside the region, where prestige is a guarantee, but success is less likely.

Anyway, I'm guessing you've already thought through all this. In the end, none of us can tell you what's best for you. Just reflect on your own goals and priorities, wait and see what scholarship offers come in, visit a few shools, and more than likely it will become clear what's the best fit for you.

good luck!

I assume we should take this to mean that only top 20% has a shot at a decent job.

[MoS]

This is how I see the hiarchy of law schools in Texas

Harvard
Yale Stanford
UT
UVA Duke
You shouldn't have to go any further than this.

[ArchRoark]

I am in the same situation... HYSCCN is for all intended purposes out of my reach (unless pigs fly agaisnt a blue moon while someone sacrifices their first born child).

I have lived in Austin my entire life and attended UT for undergrad.

Not too sure where I will end up if I get acceptances in the t14+ and UT.

[romothesavior]

YOU WANT TO PRACTICE IN TEXAS??? THEN GO TO TEXAS WITH $$$$!!!!

HAVE A GOOD NIGHT!!!!