WUSTL vs. Wisconsin vs. Chicago-Kent Forum

[byunbee]

Yes. In case you're wondering why, here it is:

1. A stipend for more than full tuition, plus health insurance for my family (total debt before any pending external scholarships: <$50K).
2. My target region is Wisconsin + Chicago/Minneapolis.
3. Not only does Wisconsin have a much deeper class selection on Native Law, they have an actual Tribal Law clinic.
4. GO BUCKY, that's why.

Maybe it's just my anti-UW, anti-cheese head bias. But if you put it that way, I guess it just makes sense.

[Regionality]

I knew this decision was brewing for you...

That's a lot of money to save at Wisconsin, and I think that in 3 years Wisconsin will return to a semblance of its former self for chicago law placement....

You bring up a good point about needing to do well at either school in order to get OCI...do you think you are more likely to do well at Wisconsin or WUSTL? Is it weird to think that you might be able to out-compete peers at Wisconsin easier than at WUSTL?

WUSTL is definitely better than Wisco for Chicago, but i dunno if it's 50k better. It's not impervious to ITE affecting its OCI either.

I voted Wisconsin bc I would love to be able to attend at that price, and if I could get that tuition at Wisconsin AND 33k at WUSTL, I'd choose Wisconsin because I wouldn't mind Milwaukee and I'd hope/expect the situation for Chicago placement would change by 2013.

Have you decided definitively already?

[09042014]

You bring up a good point about needing to do well at either school in order to get OCI...do you think you are more likely to do well at Wisconsin or WUSTL? Is it weird to think that you might be able to out-compete peers at Wisconsin easier than at WUSTL?

The difference in competition will be minimal.

[Regionality]

You bring up a good point about needing to do well at either school in order to get OCI...do you think you are more likely to do well at Wisconsin or WUSTL? Is it weird to think that you might be able to out-compete peers at Wisconsin easier than at WUSTL?

The difference in competition will be minimal.

Agreed, although the student bodies seem to be substantially different - Wisconsin takes more high GPA/low LSAT folks, while WUSTL takes more high LSAT/low GPA folks.

Interesting...How do you think this difference manifests itself in real life? Hard workers at Wisconsin vs. lazy prodigies at WUSTL? (to hyperbolize...)

[JCougar]

Have you decided definitively already?

I'm pretty set on WUSTL, but I haven't withdrawn from Wisconsin yet. I wanted to think it over for a day or two. I did withdraw from Kent this morning, though.

[Regionality]

Have you decided definitively already?

I'm pretty set on WUSTL, but I haven't withdrawn from Wisconsin yet. I wanted to think it over for a day or two. I did withdraw from Kent this morning, though.

Ask Wisco for a scholly...go to a T1 basically for free !!!!

[JCougar]

Have you decided definitively already?

I'm pretty set on WUSTL, but I haven't withdrawn from Wisconsin yet. I wanted to think it over for a day or two. I did withdraw from Kent this morning, though.

Ask Wisco for a scholly...go to a T1 basically for free !!!!

I think it would be highly unusual for them to offer me a scholarship when I have such a low GPA and am already getting in-state tuition. I guess I could try, but I doubt I will have much success. It's just not Wisconsin's style.

[Regionality]

Have you decided definitively already?

I'm pretty set on WUSTL, but I haven't withdrawn from Wisconsin yet. I wanted to think it over for a day or two. I did withdraw from Kent this morning, though.

Ask Wisco for a scholly...go to a T1 basically for free !!!!

I think it would be highly unusual for them to offer me a scholarship when I have such a low GPA and am already getting in-state tuition. I guess I could try, but I doubt I will have much success. It's just not Wisconsin's style.

Yea...worth a shot if more money would make the difference...but I would venture to say that you're already saving enough money at Wisconsin where if money were the biggest issue you wouldn't be leaning WUSTL!

[JCougar]

Ask Wisco for a scholly...go to a T1 basically for free !!!!

I think it would be highly unusual for them to offer me a scholarship when I have such a low GPA and am already getting in-state tuition. I guess I could try, but I doubt I will have much success. It's just not Wisconsin's style.

Yea...worth a shot if more money would make the difference...but I would venture to say that you're already saving enough money at Wisconsin where if money were the biggest issue you wouldn't be leaning WUSTL!

Right. The problem is that I really want to go to WUSTL, but it's extremely expensive even with the scholarship. I might try to see if they will increase mine. Lately, others with my numbers have been having some luck. I'm staying on the waitlist at Illinois, though. They're cheaper to begin with, and they've been offering significantly more money to splitters.

[Regionality]

http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20sc ... page12.pdf

WUSTL places ~4% more students into BigLaw. I honestly do not see where it is a foregone conclusion that a 4% difference merits the considerable debt differential.

And while I am certainly trolling on behalf of my home-state school, I'm not blowing smoke out of my ass: I turned down $108,000 at WUSTL.

I agree, but how much has changed this year for BigLaw placement b/w the schools? Has WUSTL weathered the storm significantly better than Wisconsin??

PS Are you going to Wisconsin next year?

[romothesavior]

PS Are you going to Wisconsin next year?

Yes.

In terms of "weathering the storm," sadly TCR is "neither," but I suspect WUSTL might have a slight advantage.

I would say WUSTL due to more geographically diverse placement, but I also agree with NR's first post... the difference in biglaw placement is not that big.

[JCougar]

PS Are you going to Wisconsin next year?

Yes.

In terms of "weathering the storm," sadly TCR is "neither," but I suspect WUSTL might have a slight advantage.

According to the list of firms interviewing at each school last fall on the NALP Directory website, the answer is "significant advantage."

Also, I believe that hiring prospects somewhat lag behind a school's reputation. WUSTL has really increased their reputation lately, and I wouldn't be surprised to see them recover quite well from the recession.

Even with that said, for me it's not a slam dunk decision either way. There's a lot to like about Wisconsin. Not taking the bar and practicing in Milwaukee could be really cool. The Wisconsin-Madison atmosphere is fantastic. But the bar is pretty low on my list of concerns. And I don't know if I care too much about atmosphere any more. I plan on devoting most of my life to being in the library. And I like the fact that St. Louis is a big city. I'm a big city person.

I think you'll be pretty happy at Wisconsin, though, NR.

[romothesavior]

I do everything I can to avoid coming off as a WUSTL troll (and I'm really not, if you check my posting history), but what JCougar just said is credited. WUSTL has added many firms over the last few years, and they are really working at diversifying their geographic placement (tapping into D.C. and moving west are big projects for the school).

Although their placement is similar, I do think WUSTL's sheer number of firms gives it a slight leg up over their Big Ten peers. Especially once ITE-apocalypse ends and firms start to hire a bit more, the big number of firms may help WUSTL to distance itself from its peers (although this may be too late for c/o 2013).

I've posted this once before, but I feel the need to do it again:

***DISCLAIMER***
This post is the sole opinion of romothesavior, and is no way endorsed by or affiliated with Washington University, Top-Law-Schools, or even rational thought. It is pure speculation based on nothing more than anecdotal evidence, wild assumptions, and the utter optimism of a WUSTL troll. This post is not advice, nor is it intelligible, and romothesavior is not liable for the consequences of any decisions made on the basis of this post.

[JCougar]

Coolness, man; like I said, I'm really happy for you having these good options. I just want to make sure you're making the decision that makes sense for you, not the decision that is based on a tiny fraction of a class-rank difference in landing BigLaw.

Me? I hate really big cities. I love small cities. Give me all the shit I could ever want to visit and low crime rates, any day.

Ha. You should try the small city I'm living in right now. It will scare the bejeezus out of you. Never again will I trust a metropolitan area of under 200,000!!

[romothesavior]

Romo, you should add that disclaimer to every post.

Are you saying that because you like the disclaimer, or because you think most of my posts are irrational?

[byunbee]

totally off topic, but JCougar, is your name a shout out to John Cougar Mellencamp?

[Regionality]

totally off topic, but JCougar, is your name a shout out to John Cougar Mellencamp?

Or a hot old woman?

[JCougar]

LOL. No on both counts. It's a long story, but my high school friends gave me the nickname of "Cougar" a while back. My name is Johnny though. But it has nothing to do with hot older women or Mellencamp.

[romothesavior]

LOL. No on both counts. It's a long story, but my high school friends gave me the nickname of "Cougar" a while back. My name is Johnny though. But it has nothing to do with hot older women or Mellencamp.

Johnny Cougar? Porn star names, FTW.

[toppercentile]

Kent gives full tuition plus stipend to some? If it's one of you, please share. I have a full tuition and I am considering. A stipend would seal the deal, but I'd like to know if it's reasonable to ask.

[romothesavior]

Kent gives full tuition plus stipend to some? If it's one of you, please share. I have a full tuition and I am considering. A stipend would seal the deal, but I'd like to know if it's reasonable to ask.

I believe it is their honors program, and it requires an application and interview process. Not sure if they give stipends to non-honors program members.

[JCougar]

Alright...here goes.

Me and my friends were out vandalizing Christmas decorations in my friend's boring suburb when we were in high school. We used to like to mess with the cops out there because they had nothing better to do other than harass the local teenagers because there was no real crime. The police station even had a statue of an officer with his hand on the head of a wayward-looking teen who was sitting down.

Anyway, we felt that Santa Claus was a representation of the materialization of Christmas, and his promise of a magical man bearing material gifts was stealing the meaning of Christmas from that of Jesus' message of selflessness and love. So we saw this house with a big plastic light-up santa outside, and we decided to take some baseball bats to it. We went to town on it and ran off. I had an olive green London Fog trenchcoat on. My friend had a police scanner on him and he always carried it around with him when we were up to mischief. Some neighbor saw us and reported us to the police, and a call went out from dispatch. They said they had some "malicious mischief" going on on so and so block of 91st street, and that one of the suspects was wearing a "tan or cougar-colored trenchcoat." We quickly got in the car and left the scene, but my friends thought "cougar" was a hilarious way to describe what I was wearing...so from that point on, I was named "Cougar."

So that's the Cougar story.

[Regionality]

Alright...here goes.

Me and my friends were out vandalizing Christmas decorations in my friend's boring suburb when we were in high school. We used to like to mess with the cops out there because they had nothing better to do other than harass the local teenagers because there was no real crime. The police station even had a statue of an officer with his hand on the head of a wayward-looking teen who was sitting down.

Anyway, we felt that Santa Claus was a representation of the materialization of Christmas, and his promise of a magical man bearing material gifts was stealing the meaning of Christmas from that of Jesus' message of selflessness and love. So we saw this house with a big plastic light-up santa outside, and we decided to take some baseball bats to it. We went to town on it and ran off. I had an olive green London Fog trenchcoat on. My friend had a police scanner on him and he always carried it around with him when we were up to mischief. Some neighbor saw us and reported us to the police, and a call went out from dispatch. They said they had some "malicious mischief" going on on so and so block of 91st street, and that one of the suspects was wearing a "tan or cougar-colored trenchcoat." We quickly got in the car and left the scene, but my friends thought "cougar" was a hilarious way to describe what I was wearing...so from that point on, I was named "Cougar."

So that's the Cougar story.

Ok, this is yet another reason why you should go to Wisconsin...with a story like this you could face some serious hurdles pleasing the ethics committees of other states' bars

[romothesavior]

Fantastic story for the nickname. I wish I had a cool story for my nickname, but I've got none.

[JCougar]

Alright...here goes.

Me and my friends were out vandalizing Christmas decorations in my friend's boring suburb when we were in high school. We used to like to mess with the cops out there because they had nothing better to do other than harass the local teenagers because there was no real crime. The police station even had a statue of an officer with his hand on the head of a wayward-looking teen who was sitting down.

Anyway, we felt that Santa Claus was a representation of the materialization of Christmas, and his promise of a magical man bearing material gifts was stealing the meaning of Christmas from that of Jesus' message of selflessness and love. So we saw this house with a big plastic light-up santa outside, and we decided to take some baseball bats to it. We went to town on it and ran off. I had an olive green London Fog trenchcoat on. My friend had a police scanner on him and he always carried it around with him when we were up to mischief. Some neighbor saw us and reported us to the police, and a call went out from dispatch. They said they had some "malicious mischief" going on on so and so block of 91st street, and that one of the suspects was wearing a "tan or cougar-colored trenchcoat." We quickly got in the car and left the scene, but my friends thought "cougar" was a hilarious way to describe what I was wearing...so from that point on, I was named "Cougar."

So that's the Cougar story.

Ok, this is yet another reason why you should go to Wisconsin...with a story like this you could face some serious hurdles pleasing the ethics committees of other states' bars

LOL. Maybe Missouri. But definitely not Illinois. Look at some of the people they've made lawyers.