Atlanta, Houston, and Dallas. Forum

[mcflooter06]

I don't necessarily mean in terms of reputation. I'm really just trying to get a feel for how good UT is. I believe I want to live in Texas, everything seems to be excellent.

What I'm trying to figure out is if UT is the best option. I've read on this forum that BERKLEY is better than UT because fewer grads want Texas and therefore it's the way to go, if you can get it.

I have no Texas ties and i'm really just trying to decided if Texas is the school that I want to attend.

You could send me a PM if you would prefer, but if you could speak to whether or not Texas is a better option than the T14, excluding HYS.

For your situation, Texas would probably be one of the best choices, though none of us can say, definitively, whether or not all of the other T14 are better/worse. Texas is a better choice because you have no ties to Texas. Texas is a whole different animal, and they like their own.

You may also want to take into account that Texas has a relatively cheap COL, and a $60,000 salary gets you pretty far. Also, if you haven't spent a substantial amount of time (more than, say, a vacation), just make sure you're making the right decision for yourself. Texas is just... different. People generally really love it, or totally hate it, there isn't a whole lot of in-between.

Edit: Apparently I can't spell..

[kalvano]

Have you ever even spent much time in Texas? Or did you just throw a dart at a map?

[Solerpower]

Have you ever even spent much time in Texas? Or did you just throw a dart at a map?

Been to Texas once, loved it. It's cheap, warm, has an awesome economy, awesome food, no state income tax, great legal market, basically kicks ass. Why would I want to live in NYC when making $150,000 in Texas allows you to live like royalty?

[mcflooter06]

Have you ever even spent much time in Texas? Or did you just throw a dart at a map?

Been to Texas once, loved it. It's cheap, warm, has an awesome economy, awesome food, no state income tax, great legal market, basically kicks ass. Why would I want to live in NYC when making $150,000 in Texas allows you to live like royalty?

Warm? Have you been here in the summer?!

[gdane]

Because you have to deal with the backwards extremely right wing people that live in Texas. If thats not a problem for you, then go for it.

Maybe you should spend more time in Texas. Find a specific place to look into. A lot of places are nice to visit and sound nice in theory, but once you live there is a whole different deal. Miami is a perfect example in my opinion. Its nice to visit because there are nice beaches, party scene and weather. However, once you live here you find that there is absolutely nothing to do except party because there is no culture down here, its hot as hell what seems to be 10 months out of the year, and the people arent very pleasant. Thats just my opinion though.

Good luck!

[Solerpower]

Have you ever even spent much time in Texas? Or did you just throw a dart at a map?

Been to Texas once, loved it. It's cheap, warm, has an awesome economy, awesome food, no state income tax, great legal market, basically kicks ass. Why would I want to live in NYC when making $150,000 in Texas allows you to live like royalty?

Warm? Have you been here in the summer?!

No, actually. I came up in February and it was 70. I have a friend from down there and he said that Houston has the coldest summers because you're never outside and the A/C is always blasting. I got a kick out of it.

I lean right, i'm certainly not an extreme religious conservative, but fiscally i'm as right as it gets.

Texas seems like a great place to live. Perfect, no, but great. I'm just trying to figure out what school gives me the best shot at a great job outside of HYS.

From all accounts, UT is that option. If anyone has a dissenting opinion I would love it.

[YCrevolution]

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[YCrevolution]

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[Solerpower]

Threads merged.

For OP: If you're sure you want Texas, do UT.

Not trying to sound redundant, but your basically saying if i'm sure I want Texas, UT is the best school, including the T14, to attend.

[YCrevolution]

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[mcflooter06]

Have you ever even spent much time in Texas? Or did you just throw a dart at a map?

Been to Texas once, loved it. It's cheap, warm, has an awesome economy, awesome food, no state income tax, great legal market, basically kicks ass. Why would I want to live in NYC when making $150,000 in Texas allows you to live like royalty?

Warm? Have you been here in the summer?!

No, actually. I came up in February and it was 70. I have a friend from down there and he said that Houston has the coldest summers because you're never outside and the A/C is always blasting. I got a kick out of it.

I lean right, i'm certainly not an extreme religious conservative, but fiscally i'm as right as it gets.

Texas seems like a great place to live. Perfect, no, but great. I'm just trying to figure out what school gives me the best shot at a great job outside of HYS.

From all accounts, UT is that option. If anyone has a dissenting opinion I would love it.

It is May. It is 95 degrees. And it only gets worse (the humidity is the worst part, its insane). As a native Texan, I swear I have ice water in my veins, but I'm already dying. This is serious. Just know what you would get yourself into.

[Hiei]

Let me make a suggestion to the OP; if you like Texas but have never lived there I would probably go with Atlanta out of the 3 cities you mentioned. Atlanta has many of the qualities that you love about Texas but to a lesser degree (ie it's warm but not as warm and humid as Houston, ie it has a great cost of living but admittedly not as good as Texas, and the food is actually just as good). Also UVA will only be significantly outclassed in Atlanta by Harvard and Yale; and although Atlanta is a city that values ties more than NYC/DC it is significantly less provincial than Texas.

As far as the "backwards" comment that gdane made that is entirely subjective. For many people the sort of people you meet in NYC are "extremely backwards" it just all depends on what you like.

[kalvano]

Have you ever even spent much time in Texas? Or did you just throw a dart at a map?

Been to Texas once, loved it. It's cheap, warm, has an awesome economy, awesome food, no state income tax, great legal market, basically kicks ass. Why would I want to live in NYC when making $150,000 in Texas allows you to live like royalty?

Warm? Have you been here in the summer?!

It's 100 degrees out today.

I personally can't stand Texas. A lot of people like it. But before you decide it's where you want to be, you might spend a little more time here, especially in July / August.

[motiontodismiss]

Have you ever even spent much time in Texas? Or did you just throw a dart at a map?

Been to Texas once, loved it. It's cheap, warm, has an awesome economy, awesome food, no state income tax, great legal market, basically kicks ass. Why would I want to live in NYC when making $150,000 in Texas allows you to live like royalty?

Warm? Have you been here in the summer?!

This I agree with. There is no bigger hell than Houston in the middle of July w/o A/C. But every building in Houston is so well A/Ced it's like walking into a walk in fridge.

But generally, there's no snow to clean up, no hurricanes that destroy half the city, low CoL. It's generally a cheaper version of LA, only people are a lot more fond of their guns (not my cup of tea but can live with-might as well hand every out of stater a gun as they're getting off the plane at Bush or DFW) and the death penalty (def not my cup of tea but can live with) and their steak (which I love, mid rare w/ pepper sauce please), and aren't made of silicone (silicone is def not my thing).

[thegovernor]

I think if you want to live in Dallas, go to SMU. I am from Dallas and SMU is HIGHLY respected in all areas of study, especially business and law.

[thegovernor]

But know that Texas in itself is extremely cliquy so be prepared for that. And OP, PM me if you have any questions about Dallas.

[MoS]

OP should really take head to the comment about Texas being cliquey. If you want to work in Texas and haven't lived there, then you should go to law school in Texas, and UT is by far the best place in Texas to go, even for Dallas over SMU, though if you want Dallas SMU is a VERY good place to be, seriously outside of the T14, UT is the only place I would say is better than SMU for Dallas, and UH is almost the same for Houston, thought Tulane has good access to the market.
As far as weather. I lived there for undergrad and am from Missouri, you get used to it, even the summers. And the A/C in Texas cannot be beat, it's everywhere and its very cold.
As far as people, its a big state and Houston and Dallas are big towns there is plenty of diversity, and stereotypes will come up short 90% of the time. Austin, where UT is located, is very liberal and has lots to do. Still you will meet your fair share of conservatives. Though it is fair to say Texans like to do everything different so even the conservatives are not like what you might be used to.

[jms1987]

I am also interested in knowing more about the Texas market.

[MartianManhunter]

You seem to be more interested in Texas markets than Atlanta. But if you're serious about Atlanta you ought to add Emory and UGA to your list. A quick search of King & Spalding's and Allston & Bird's (the 2 big ones) Atlanta offices has 429 attorneys that roughly breaks down like this:

UVA: 26 + 32 = 58 or 13.5%
Duke: 8 + 41 = 49 or 11.4%
Vandy: 39 + 55 = 94 or 21.9%
Emory: 33 + 69 = 102 or 23.7%
UGA: 50 + 76 = 126 or 29.3%

I prefer Atlanta's weather to Texas. My understanding is that it's also easier to break into than the Texas market.

[100Miles&Runnin']

There's nothing in Houston but smut, traffic, and concrete. If you're not a fan of these things, look elsewhere.

[Mickey Quicknumbers]

Emory obviously controls the Atlanta market and UVA and Duke place pretty well.

Actually, you are obviously wrong. Emory and UGA are on equal footing in Atlanta. Saying that Emory "controls" the Atlanta market is incorrect.

He's wrong, but not because of UGA. UGA puts about the same numbers into Atlanta, but that's because way more Emory kids self select out of Atlanta, whereas for UGA Atlanta is the end-all-be-all. Emory kids have an edge on UGA. However, merichard is wrong they are definitely in 3rd place behind UVA and Vanderbilt in terms of ATL placement.

[Mickey Quicknumbers]

You seem to be more interested in Texas markets than Atlanta. But if you're serious about Atlanta you ought to add Emory and UGA to your list. A quick search of King & Spalding's and Allston & Bird's (the 2 big ones) Atlanta offices has 429 attorneys that roughly breaks down like this:

UVA: 26 + 32 = 58 or 13.5%
Duke: 8 + 41 = 49 or 11.4%
Vandy: 39 + 55 = 94 or 21.9%
Emory: 33 + 69 = 102 or 23.7%
UGA: 50 + 76 = 126 or 29.3%

I prefer Atlanta's weather to Texas. My understanding is that it's also easier to break into than the Texas market.

did you manually extract these numbers or did you find them somewhere?

[TMT90]

As a current UT undergrad and native Texan, I have to admit that I love Texas for all of the reasons you listed but also because I know I have a much better chance at finding a job as a UT grad (law or otherwise). The alumni network is huge and can definitely get you far in Texas, plus - as you mentioned - the cost of living in Texas is much less than NY or CA and you would be able to afford some of Texas' finest homes with the income you mentioned. Dallas, Austin, and Houston were mentioned in some msnbc article as being top US cities least affected by the recession and are actually experiencing growth in some markets, including hiring. Although I am also considering living somewhere (dependent on where I actually attend law school) I can't deny that Texas has more opportunities, and many people are actually moving to Texas because of these opportunities.

[eandy]

Emory obviously controls the Atlanta market and UVA and Duke place pretty well.

Actually, you are obviously wrong. Emory and UGA are on equal footing in Atlanta. Saying that Emory "controls" the Atlanta market is incorrect.

He's wrong, but not because of UGA. UGA puts about the same numbers into Atlanta, but that's because way more Emory kids self select out of Atlanta, whereas for UGA Atlanta is the end-all-be-all. Emory kids have an edge on UGA. However, merichard is wrong they are definitely in 3rd place behind UVA and Vanderbilt in terms of ATL placement.

In general, Emory places better than UGA. Going to UGA cannot get you a job(realistically) outside of Georgia. Emory can do that for you. However, in ATLANTA, UGA grads and Emory grads are on equal footing. UGA students are in no way at the mercy of Emory students, praying to God each night that Emory kids go somewhere else so that they can have their Atlanta jobs instead. In Atlanta, they are perceived as equals. You missed what I am saying.

[MartianManhunter]

You seem to be more interested in Texas markets than Atlanta. But if you're serious about Atlanta you ought to add Emory and UGA to your list. A quick search of King & Spalding's and Allston & Bird's (the 2 big ones) Atlanta offices has 429 attorneys that roughly breaks down like this:

UVA: 26 + 32 = 58 or 13.5%
Duke: 8 + 41 = 49 or 11.4%
Vandy: 39 + 55 = 94 or 21.9%
Emory: 33 + 69 = 102 or 23.7%
UGA: 50 + 76 = 126 or 29.3%

I prefer Atlanta's weather to Texas. My understanding is that it's also easier to break into than the Texas market.

did you manually extract these numbers or did you find them somewhere?

Manually. I just did a search on their websites and did a quick count, give or take away credibility accordingly. You or OP can double check if you like.

I always hear about UVA's dominance in Atlanta but raw numbers and the opinions of the small sample of attorneys I know in the city leave me unconvinced. This is just 2 firms, albeit the bigger ones. Maybe more firms would give a more accurate picture of UVA's placement.

I don't know about cross-placement between Atlanta and Texas, but if Vandy places strongly enough in Texas compared to Duke, UT and UVA then it would seem to be the wiser choice. UT only had 3 results between the 2 firms so I wouldn't commit there unless Atlanta wasn't a high priority.