Updated Poll: BC/WashU/GULC/WI/Cardozo Forum

[nowinGA]

There are some assumptions here and I am waiting for some final information re: getting off a WL at GULC and negotiating some more money elsewhere...but assuming I can make these things happen, I'd like to hear some thoughts.

I have a strong desire to end up in NYC. Have worked there in the entertainment industry and would like to stay involved. Family is all in MN/WI...so being there isn't completely out of the picture either. Would most prefer to live in NYC for school...but Boston and Madison aren't bad places either. I also love DC, but can't decide about paying sticker with all of these other options.

So, while I admit some hypotheticals are involved here, I will have little time to make some decisions if all of this happens...

Thank, in advance, for any thoughts.

[DerrickRose]

What do you want to do?

And why isn't Fordham on this list?

[nowinGA]

What do you want to do?

And why isn't Fordham on this list?

Because Fordham Wait Listed me.

I don't know what I want to do...part of me wants to stay in the entertainment industry, where I have contacts and a resume full of work...part of me wouldn't mind veering elsewhere. It is my work in entertainment that made me want to go to law school...but I can't say for sure right now exactly what I want to do. I have lots of ideas, but don't know for sure. Entertainment/Labor/Employment are all up there...

[DerrickRose]

What do you want to do?

And why isn't Fordham on this list?

Because Fordham Wait Listed me.

I don't know what I want to do...part of me wants to stay in the entertainment industry, where I have contacts and a resume full of work...part of me wouldn't mind veering elsewhere. It is my work in entertainment that made me want to go to law school...but I can't say for sure right now exactly what I want to do. I have lots of ideas, but don't know for sure. Entertainment/Labor/Employment are all up there...

You got $99k from Wash U but waitlisted at Fordham? What are your numbers?

It's not that I would sweat Fordham too much, I just find that odd.

You sound hesitant about going to law school, and with something successful going on in life already you have every reason to. That said, you have some good options here. You need to make two decisions:

1. Do I really want to jump into the deep end and go to law school?

and

2. Would I rather be in NYC or back in the Midwest with my family?

My advice? Take the Cardozo full ride. If you do badly, just drop out and go back to your entertainment work after a little 9 month detour. Its nothing to be ashamed of. If you do well but decide you want to be closer to your family, transfer.

[nowinGA]

What do you want to do?

And why isn't Fordham on this list?

Because Fordham Wait Listed me.

I don't know what I want to do...part of me wants to stay in the entertainment industry, where I have contacts and a resume full of work...part of me wouldn't mind veering elsewhere. It is my work in entertainment that made me want to go to law school...but I can't say for sure right now exactly what I want to do. I have lots of ideas, but don't know for sure. Entertainment/Labor/Employment are all up there...

You got $99k from Wash U but waitlisted at Fordham? What are your numbers?

It's not that I would sweat Fordham too much, I just find that odd.

You sound hesitant about going to law school, and with something successful going on in life already you have every reason to. That said, you have some good options here. You need to make two decisions:

1. Do I really want to jump into the deep end and go to law school?

and

2. Would I rather be in NYC or back in the Midwest with my family?

My advice? Take the Cardozo full ride. If you do badly, just drop out and go back to your entertainment work after a little 9 month detour. Its nothing to be ashamed of. If you do well but decide you want to be closer to your family, transfer.

Perhaps you read me wrong, I am quite ready and focused on going to law school. I left my career TO go to law school. So, not sure what I wrote that sounds like that. I am just open to the possibility that I may be attracted to things other than Entertainment once I get there...even though that is my area of experience going in.

I am not dropping out and I do not intend to do badly. Nor do I plan to go back to my previous career. (If it clarifies, I had thought about going to law school years ago, but got sidetracked by good work and a PhD program-which I dropped out of because it was not what I wanted to do, so no worries, "shame" is not part of this for me.)

Thanks for your thoughts.

[DerrickRose]

What do you want to do?

And why isn't Fordham on this list?

Because Fordham Wait Listed me.

I don't know what I want to do...part of me wants to stay in the entertainment industry, where I have contacts and a resume full of work...part of me wouldn't mind veering elsewhere. It is my work in entertainment that made me want to go to law school...but I can't say for sure right now exactly what I want to do. I have lots of ideas, but don't know for sure. Entertainment/Labor/Employment are all up there...

You got $99k from Wash U but waitlisted at Fordham? What are your numbers?

It's not that I would sweat Fordham too much, I just find that odd.

You sound hesitant about going to law school, and with something successful going on in life already you have every reason to. That said, you have some good options here. You need to make two decisions:

1. Do I really want to jump into the deep end and go to law school?

and

2. Would I rather be in NYC or back in the Midwest with my family?

My advice? Take the Cardozo full ride. If you do badly, just drop out and go back to your entertainment work after a little 9 month detour. Its nothing to be ashamed of. If you do well but decide you want to be closer to your family, transfer.

Perhaps you read me wrong, I am quite ready and focused on going to law school. I left my career TO go to law school. So, not sure what I wrote that sounds like that. I am just open to the possibility that I may be attracted to things other than Entertainment once I get there...even though that is my area of experience going in.

I am not dropping out and I do not intend to do badly. Nor do I plan to go back to my previous career. (If it clarifies, I had thought about going to law school years ago, but got sidetracked by good work and a PhD program-which I dropped out of because it was not what I wanted to do, so no worries, "shame" is not part of this for me.)

Thanks for your thoughts.

Gotcha. Thought you meant you were hesitant about leaving your current career. Well if you're in it to win it with law school, and you want NYC, I would probably have it narrowed down to these three:

Boston College - Most NYC upside if you do well.
WUSTL - Gives you a shot at both MN/WI and NYC
Cardozo - Best overall chance at work in NYC

GULC is too expensive and I don't get the sense that the Midwest is where you're sure you want to be, so I'd be rid of UW too.

If it were me in your shoes, I think I'd take BC, all things considered.

[nowinGA]

Thanks.

[nowinGA]

Okay people...this is a bit too evenly split! Ahhh!

I'd be happy to hear more people explain their vote.

[UnclaimedGas]

if your primary is NYC and secondary includes Boston, it's probably GULC or BC. If you are debt averse, then BC. If you really really want NYC then perhaps sticker at GULC. I think GULC should also give you a chance to go back to MN/WI, if you wanted to, since it's a pretty national school.

[Lawrence]

I have to troll for Wash U here. Yeah, you will have to do well at Wash U to get NYC biglaw, but in this economy it's not like Cardozo gives you a great shot just because it is in New York. Normally I'm a proponent of going to school in the area you want to work in considering similar schools, but Wash U is just on a different level than Cardozo and I can't see going down 33 spots in the rankings for an extra 10k a year. When you add COL differences between NYC and STL that difference will be even less.

BC is a solid offer as well,but I'm not so sure it's a better option for NYC than Wash U. It's definitely closer, but NYC is not its main market just like NYC isn't Wash U's main market. I think Wash U is slightly better (admittedly biased) and the rankings would seem to agree with me. (Not that a few spots in the rankings means much) This is definitely a pretty close call so I would advise visiting both schools and seeing which one you prefer.

[UnclaimedGas]

I have to troll for Wash U here. Yeah, you will have to do well at Wash U to get NYC biglaw, but in this economy it's not like Cardozo gives you a great shot just because it is in New York. Normally I'm a proponent of going to school in the area you want to work in considering similar schools, but Wash U is just on a different level than Cardozo and I can't see going down 33 spots in the rankings for an extra 10k a year. When you add COL differences between NYC and STL that difference will be even less.

BC is a solid offer as well,but I'm not so sure it's a better option for NYC than Wash U. It's definitely closer, but NYC is not its main market just like NYC isn't Wash U's main market. I think Wash U is slightly better (admittedly biased) and the rankings would seem to agree with me. (Not that a few spots in the rankings means much) This is definitely a pretty close call so I would advise visiting both schools and seeing which one you prefer.

if it comes down to WashU and BC for the OP, then i agree, the best course of action would be to visit both schools and go with OP's gut feelings. But from what i have gathered, BC does slightly better than WashU in NYC. But ya, one would need to do very well to get it either school. BC does very well in boston though, which is a market the OP listed as his secondary. In WI/MN, BC and WashU is probably a toss-up. But ya, visiting would be the ideal scenario

[tram988]

I have to troll for Wash U here. Yeah, you will have to do well at Wash U to get NYC biglaw, but in this economy it's not like Cardozo gives you a great shot just because it is in New York. Normally I'm a proponent of going to school in the area you want to work in considering similar schools, but Wash U is just on a different level than Cardozo and I can't see going down 33 spots in the rankings for an extra 10k a year. When you add COL differences between NYC and STL that difference will be even less.

BC is a solid offer as well,but I'm not so sure it's a better option for NYC than Wash U. It's definitely closer, but NYC is not its main market just like NYC isn't Wash U's main market. I think Wash U is slightly better (admittedly biased) and the rankings would seem to agree with me. (Not that a few spots in the rankings means much) This is definitely a pretty close call so I would advise visiting both schools and seeing which one you prefer.

BC places a higher percentage of graduates in NLJ250 firms and I believe has an edge of Wash U in NYC and Boston. As we know, the U.S. News rankings do not take into account placement indexes such as the NLJ250, which I think is one of the most important considerations for those seeking law firm employment.

If you want Boston or NYC, as you mentioned, I'd take BC over Washington U in a heartbeat (all other things equal.)

[nowinGA]

What if I (OP) would strongly prefer to live in NYC, where I have a strong base of professional and social contacts. And while I am definitely interested in the private sector, I am not necessarily gunning for so-called "BigLaw." Is Cardozo with a full ride really such a horrible idea? So I can remain involved in the arts community and maintain contacts? I am not sure the answer to this, but I am strongly considering taking this opportunity to be in the city, despite my other great offers and higher ranked schools.

[UnclaimedGas]

What if I (OP) would strongly prefer to live in NYC, where I have a strong base of professional and social contacts. And while I am definitely interested in the private sector, I am not necessarily gunning for so-called "BigLaw." Is Cardozo with a full ride really such a horrible idea? So I can remain involved in the arts community and maintain contacts? I am not sure the answer to this, but I am strongly considering taking this opportunity to be in the city, despite my other great offers and higher ranked schools.

give those reasons, i think cardozo then is the best choice. With your contacts, your chance for good, not necessarily biglaw, employment in NYC is probably better with cardozo than with BC or WashU. And you won't have to gun for biglaw since you will be nearly or completely debt free at graduation.

[nowinGA]

What if I (OP) would strongly prefer to live in NYC, where I have a strong base of professional and social contacts. And while I am definitely interested in the private sector, I am not necessarily gunning for so-called "BigLaw." Is Cardozo with a full ride really such a horrible idea? So I can remain involved in the arts community and maintain contacts? I am not sure the answer to this, but I am strongly considering taking this opportunity to be in the city, despite my other great offers and higher ranked schools.

give those reasons, i think cardozo then is the best choice. With your contacts, your chance for good, not necessarily biglaw, employment in NYC is probably better with cardozo than with BC or WashU. And you won't have to gun for biglaw since you will be nearly or completely debt free at graduation.

Well, the debt-free part is not true at all. I will have approx. $75K in cost of living debt...and I have a bit of debt from previous grad school as well. But of course, those two issues follow me no matter which school I choose. They do may free tuition much more enticing.

[UnclaimedGas]

What if I (OP) would strongly prefer to live in NYC, where I have a strong base of professional and social contacts. And while I am definitely interested in the private sector, I am not necessarily gunning for so-called "BigLaw." Is Cardozo with a full ride really such a horrible idea? So I can remain involved in the arts community and maintain contacts? I am not sure the answer to this, but I am strongly considering taking this opportunity to be in the city, despite my other great offers and higher ranked schools.

give those reasons, i think cardozo then is the best choice. With your contacts, your chance for good, not necessarily biglaw, employment in NYC is probably better with cardozo than with BC or WashU. And you won't have to gun for biglaw since you will be nearly or completely debt free at graduation.

Well, the debt-free part is not true at all. I will have approx. $75K in cost of living debt...and I have a bit of debt from previous grad school as well. But of course, those two issues follow me no matter which school I choose. They do may free tuition much more enticing.

If you are in debt currently as well, then that further bolsters cardozo. Cardozo + contacts is going to be better than BC/WUSTL in NYC. Cardozo IMO

[nowinGA]

What are people's thoughts on being able to get back to the Midwest (MN/WI) at some point if that is what I want? I guess I always got the feel the the East coast to Midwest move was easier than the Midwest to East coast move...in terms of potential job prospects.

[Blindmelon]

I have to troll for Wash U here. Yeah, you will have to do well at Wash U to get NYC biglaw, but in this economy it's not like Cardozo gives you a great shot just because it is in New York. Normally I'm a proponent of going to school in the area you want to work in considering similar schools, but Wash U is just on a different level than Cardozo and I can't see going down 33 spots in the rankings for an extra 10k a year. When you add COL differences between NYC and STL that difference will be even less.

BC is a solid offer as well,but I'm not so sure it's a better option for NYC than Wash U. It's definitely closer, but NYC is not its main market just like NYC isn't Wash U's main market. I think Wash U is slightly better (admittedly biased) and the rankings would seem to agree with me. (Not that a few spots in the rankings means much) This is definitely a pretty close call so I would advise visiting both schools and seeing which one you prefer.

Totally disagree - BC > WashU for NYC. BC's main market in Boston, but it places a large chunk of its class in NYC each year and is extremely well known in the city.

If you want to be able to go back west though - go to WashU.

[nowinGA]

So do people really think that going to Cardozo would prohibit me from going back the the upper Midwest at some point? If that is what I want? Again, I don't know what I want...but I am leaning towards staying in NYC near the entertainment industry to give me the best chance to network, etc. while still in school...and not lose those connections.

[keg411]

So do people really think that going to Cardozo would prohibit me from going back the the upper Midwest at some point? If that is what I want? Again, I don't know what I want...but I am leaning towards staying in NYC near the entertainment industry to give me the best chance to network, etc. while still in school...and not lose those connections.

You are really best off just picking a region; it's going to be difficult to do both. If you want to be back in the upper midwest, go to Wisconsin. If you want NYC only, go to Cardozo. If you want East Coast in general, go to BC. If you want St. Louis/Chicago/lower Midwest, WashU.

GULC @sticker is the only option that will give you the portability to make the choice where you want to live/work. At this point, since you're not sure where you want to live and you want to do something in a VERY competitive and tricky field like Entertainment, you should go to GULC. (FTR, I hate DC and will rarely recommend GULC, so that says something in your case.

[DerrickRose]

So do people really think that going to Cardozo would prohibit me from going back the the upper Midwest at some point? If that is what I want? Again, I don't know what I want...but I am leaning towards staying in NYC near the entertainment industry to give me the best chance to network, etc. while still in school...and not lose those connections.

Years out? The variables are too many to predict.

But its not like its easy to get from BC to Wisconsin either.

[nowinGA]

So do people really think that going to Cardozo would prohibit me from going back the the upper Midwest at some point? If that is what I want? Again, I don't know what I want...but I am leaning towards staying in NYC near the entertainment industry to give me the best chance to network, etc. while still in school...and not lose those connections.

You are really best off just picking a region; it's going to be difficult to do both. If you want to be back in the upper midwest, go to Wisconsin. If you want NYC only, go to Cardozo. If you want East Coast in general, go to BC. If you want St. Louis/Chicago/lower Midwest, WashU.

GULC @sticker is the only option that will give you the portability to make the choice where you want to live/work. At this point, since you're not sure where you want to live and you want to do something in a VERY competitive and tricky field like Entertainment, you should go to GULC. (FTR, I hate DC and will rarely recommend GULC, so that says something in your case.

Right. And I can think I know what I want now...but life changes...and who can really say? I just don't think I can handle the GULC debt. And while yes, Entertainment is difficult, it is where I have all of my work experience, and I feel like going to Cardozo I can maintain those ties (and live in the city I prefer). I guess the point is that any of these could make it hard to be mobile (except GULC...and I, by the way, love DC)...I am fairly confident that I can make what I need to happen happen...but I don't want to be unwise either. Right now, I want NYC. I just don't want to feel like if I change my mind, I am screwed. But that is of course an unknown and I get that.

[DerrickRose]

So do people really think that going to Cardozo would prohibit me from going back the the upper Midwest at some point? If that is what I want? Again, I don't know what I want...but I am leaning towards staying in NYC near the entertainment industry to give me the best chance to network, etc. while still in school...and not lose those connections.

You are really best off just picking a region; it's going to be difficult to do both. If you want to be back in the upper midwest, go to Wisconsin. If you want NYC only, go to Cardozo. If you want East Coast in general, go to BC. If you want St. Louis/Chicago/lower Midwest, WashU.

GULC @sticker is the only option that will give you the portability to make the choice where you want to live/work. At this point, since you're not sure where you want to live and you want to do something in a VERY competitive and tricky field like Entertainment, you should go to GULC. (FTR, I hate DC and will rarely recommend GULC, so that says something in your case.

Right. And I can think I know what I want now...but life changes...and who can really say? I just don't think I can handle the GULC debt. And while yes, Entertainment is difficult, it is where I have all of my work experience, and I feel like going to Cardozo I can maintain those ties (and live in the city I prefer). I guess the point is that any of these could make it hard to be mobile (except GULC...and I, by the way, love DC)...I am fairly confident that I can make what I need to happen happen...but I don't want to be unwise either. Right now, I want NYC. I just don't want to feel like if I change my mind, I am screwed. But that is of course an unknown and I get that.

I know its callous, but if we're speaking generally:

If you want to be in NYC but want to leave open the possibility of turning up anchor and heading elsewhere with plenty of good work waiting for you, you need to be at NYU or Columbia.

[nowinGA]

Right. I just don't subscribe to the TLS line of "you can only succeed as a lawyer if you got to a t14" line of thinking. Having worked in the real world quite a bit, I believe in the power of networking and contacts, as well as just being an attractive candidate for employment with a great resume. Maybe it is because I am older, not straight out of college, and have some perspective. I am working with the options I have and trying to make the best decision for me based on them. But I do appreciate all of your thoughts and comments. They are all useful.

[DerrickRose]

Right. I just don't subscribe to the TLS line of "you can only succeed as a lawyer if you got to a t14" line of thinking. Having worked in the real world quite a bit, I believe in the power of networking and contacts, as well as just being an attractive candidate for employment with a great resume. Maybe it is because I am older, not straight out of college, and have some perspective. I am working with the options I have and trying to make the best decision for me based on them. But I do appreciate all of your thoughts and comments. They are all useful.

No one is saying it can't be done. We're just saying you can't expect it to be easy.

There's a lot of expecting it to be easy going around these days. You sound like you don't have it, which is going to be a big, big help to you in life.