So I chose GW Law over Fordham. Forum

[nycparalegal]

I want to do PI work in NYC so I would probably pick Fordham, but again both are great schools, just depends on what you want to do.

[kaydish21]

So I chose Fordham over GW Law.

You know for reasons besides how they rank and I couldn't be happier. That said, I don't believe anyone here said Fordham is a better school than GW. The objection was to the way you used an independent tool that is completely removed from personal situation to characterize one school as a superior option. I think most people on TLS say the schools are pretty comparable and the slight edge goes to GW if anything. One of my best friends is a 1L there and loves it. Both schools are great options that are expensive but have good placement in their own region. People just responded to you the way you have seen due to the callous way in which you wrote your opinion.

All that said, I'm happy that you chose GW.

If only because it means you won't be at Fordham

Good choice!

[GermX]

^ This despite the fact that I mentioned, over a dozen times already, that I have multiple reasons for choosing GW over Fordham, with the rankings being ONE of those reasons. Rankings do matter.

[umichgrad]

Go to Fordham! Run! As fast as you can!!

[GermX]

lol!

[DerrickRose]

Rankings do matter.

No they don't. They reflect things that do matter.

[GermX]

^ So if they reflect those things, then they do matter.

[clintonius]

That's... like saying self-portraits matter because looks do. Portraits can be helpful, sure, but there's no sense painting yourself into a sexy picture if you can't produce.

That doesn't make any sense at all. Shut up.

[GermX]

Such an aggressive bunch of people. Ahh, good ol' TLS.

Anyways, no, that analogy sucks and is incorrect. Rankings reflect certain elements and statistics that law firms feel are important when what schools to send out their recruiters to.

[clintonius]

Yes, I know the analogy sucks. The "that doesn't make any sense" was self-referential.

[Informative]

This has been said a million times, but I guess it should be said again:

These are peer schools. If you want to work in NYC, go to Fordham. If you want to work in DC, go to GW. HTH.

[GermX]

And, your point is? I was only re-affirming that.

[jfonz]

OCI numbers from a NALP search, I think courtesy of OS, all approximates:

NY Based BigLaw:
Fordham - 56
GW - 25

DC Based BigLaw:
Fordham - 8
GW - 36

Random notable "premier firms" at Fordham OCI, not at GW OCI*: Cravath, Davis Polk

Obviously, this doesn't take into account resume collection or direct-writes, but is worth noting.


*not exhaustive

[GermX]

^ In other words, if I go to GW, assuming I do well in school and I'm qualified and firms want me, I will have a good chance at getting a job in NYC, a great chance at getting a job at D.C.

If I go to Fordham, I'll have a so-so chance of getting a good job in NYC, and relatively NO chance of getting a job in D.C..

Interesting.

[T14_Scholly]

ITT: GermX says something blatantly retarded, gets called out, and then goes back on what he previously said (while acting as if he never said it) in order to save face.

[Always Credited]

^ In other words, if I go to GW, assuming I do well in school and I'm qualified and firms want me, I will have a good chance at getting a job in NYC, a great chance at getting a job at D.C.

If I go to Fordham, I'll have a so-so chance of getting a good job in NYC, and relatively NO chance of getting a job in D.C..

Interesting.

The raw numbers show nothing whatsoever in the way of self-selection to either city nor to specific positions, and as such you cannot draw any direct conclusions concerning specific chances/odds at either school for mobility.


In an effort to be helpful, because I genuinely feel bad for your reasoning: do yourself a favor, and don't allow a few percentage points here or there on charts, which largely ignore several important facts, to dictate the course of your life. The raw data is ambiguous at best, misleading at worst, and should only be consulted in the context of greater, more in-depth research, which it is apparent you haven't yet done.

As for Cornell...take it for prestige's sake if that's what you really want, but take it with a grain of salt ITE for exponentially greater job prospects.

[GermX]

^ He wasn't talking about self-selection. His numbers reflected OCI, percentage of firms relative to region that showed up at a school. GW got a good mix of NYC and DC firms, Fordham got almost exclusively NYC firms only. Which means that Fordham is not a national school at all. GW is. Come on. Nobody here can argue with a straight face that GW Law doesn't place decently in New York City.

[jfonz]

^ In other words, if I go to GW, assuming I do well in school and I'm qualified and firms want me, I will have a good chance at getting a job in NYC, a great chance at getting a job at D.C.

If I go to Fordham, I'll have a so-so chance of getting a good job in NYC, and relatively NO chance of getting a job in D.C..

Interesting.

Well, leaving aside your qualifiers for a moment, that is certainly one interpretation of those numbers.

My guess is that several folks in this thread could very easily draw different conclusions that would not necessarily support your decision.

The massive variable omission is 1L performance, without which much of this debate is nothing but impotent speculation.

[Always Credited]

^ He wasn't talking about self-selection. His numbers reflected OCI, percentage of firms relative to region that showed up at a school. GW got a good mix of NYC and DC firms, Fordham got almost exclusively NYC firms only. Which means that Fordham is not a national school at all. GW is. Come on. Nobody here can argue with a straight face that GW Law doesn't place decently in New York City.

Do the numbers show whether or not Fordham places 50% of its class into those 56 NYC BigLaw firms, while GWU places 6% of its class into the 25 NYC firms, one to each firm? No, they do not.

Do the numbers show that of the NYC firms at GWU, all 25 firms actually hired GWU students? No, they simply show that the firms were there.


This is what I mean when I say your analysis is too shallow to draw any relevant conclusions. These numbers are a good place to start, but by no means an intelligent place to finish.

[clintonius]

V10 Firms, NY offices

Wachtell
Fordham: 4
GW: 2

Cravath
Fordham: 27
GW: 5

Skadden
Fordham: 60
GW: 6

Sullivan & Cromwell
Fordham: 10
GW: 6

Davis Polk
Fordham: 23
GW: 9

Weil (n/a -- not searchable by school)

Simpson Thacher
Fordham: 30
GW: 11

Cleary
Fordham: 9
GW: 1

Covington & Burling
Fordham: 5
GW: 2

Kirkland & Ellis
Fordham: 19
GW: 12

[kaydish21]

V10 Firms, NY offices

Wachtell
Fordham: 4
GW: 2

Cravath
Fordham: 27
GW: 5

Skadden
Fordham: 60
GW: 6

Sullivan & Cromwell
Fordham: 10
GW: 6

Davis Polk
Fordham: 23
GW: 9

Weil (n/a -- not searchable by school)

Simpson Thacher
Fordham: 30
GW: 11

Cleary
Fordham: 9
GW: 1

Covington & Burling
Fordham: 5
GW: 2

Kirkland & Ellis
Fordham: 19
GW: 12

TITCR

[jfonz]

V10 Firms, NY offices

Wachtell
Fordham: 4
GW: 2

Cravath
Fordham: 27
GW: 5

Skadden
Fordham: 60
GW: 6

Sullivan & Cromwell
Fordham: 10
GW: 6

Davis Polk
Fordham: 23
GW: 9

Weil (n/a -- not searchable by school)

Simpson Thacher
Fordham: 30
GW: 11

Cleary
Fordham: 9
GW: 1

Covington & Burling
Fordham: 5
GW: 2

Kirkland & Ellis
Fordham: 19
GW: 12

TITCR

Doesn't account for self-selection; still extremely persuasive.

[GermX]

^ True. But I'm convinced that if I graduate with good grades from GW Law, I can find a good job in NYC.

[nycparalegal]

^ True. But I'm convinced that if I graduate with good grades from GW Law, I can find a good job in NYC.

No one knows for sure how well they will do in law school. So, let us be a little conservative here:

So, you're willing to make a 200,000 bet that if you are at the median at GW Law you can get NYC BIGLAW?

[GermX]

Umm no, I'm willing to make a 200,000 bet, which, btw, is not going to be in loans (I have the money) that I can get a job coming out of GW law, whether that is in D.C. or NYC or anywhere else for the matter. I would LOVE to work in New York. But I wouldn't mind working in D.C. either. Wherever the best job is, I will take it.

What I'm not willing to bet is $200k so that I can land a shitty 50k/yr job in NYC. I'm not that desperate to be in NYC, period.