Berkeley at sticker or UCI at half tuition? Forum

[hans3n]

I assume most on here will pick Berkeley, but tuition at Berkeley over the next 3 years, for in state, will be about $44,000, $49,000, and $51,000. That is $144,000 just for tuition over 3 years. UC Irvine would likely be around $20,000 a year at half tuition, assuming standard tuition is $40,000. So that is $60,000-$70,000 over 3 years at UCI v.s. $144,000 at Berkeley. Anyone? Try to explain why you chose your answer.

[Borhas]

obvious answer

UCI has A LOT of hype... I wouldn't be so quick to buy into it. Class sizes will expand, and scholarships will go away sooner rather than later.

[Cupidity]

I'm honored to be the first person to tell you that you are a fool. Dude, this is so obvious. Berkeley has been and will remain one of the 10 best schools in the nation, and it is one of the only places outside of HYSCCN that can still honestly boast the 160k median that we all dreamed of back in 2007. UCI is completely un-tested, and fvor decades will not have an alumni network to help you out. I can't believe they let people with your level of common sense into Berkeley.

[09042014]

UCI is an unknown. You have no idea what the job prospects are. You know what UCB's are.

Are you going to bet your entire career over 75LK in debt?

For free I'd consider.

[najumobi]

I'm honored to be the first person to tell you that you are a fool. Dude, this is so obvious. Berkeley has been and will remain one of the 10 best schools in the nation, and it is one of the only places outside of HYSCCN that can still honestly boast the 160k median that we all dreamed of back in 2007. UCI is completely un-tested, and fvor decades will not have an alumni network to help you out. I can't believe they let people with your level of common sense into Berkeley.

he should pick berkeley, but it's not a bad thing to throw the question out there....considering OP is about to make a choice with 60k upfront on the line.

[ViP]

There were many, many, many students at UCI ASD today that are turning down offers from T14 and top-10 schools for Irvine. And they definitely seemed like intelligent, ambitious applicants...

If you haven't seriously looked into Irvine (as very few have), you really don't know what the school can offer.

Just food for thought.

[hans3n]

I'm honored to be the first person to tell you that you are a fool. Dude, this is so obvious. Berkeley has been and will remain one of the 10 best schools in the nation, and it is one of the only places outside of HYSCCN that can still honestly boast the 160k median that we all dreamed of back in 2007. UCI is completely un-tested, and fvor decades will not have an alumni network to help you out. I can't believe they let people with your level of common sense into Berkeley.

Some people have an interest in law as a career beyond the $.

[ViP]

I'm honored to be the first person to tell you that you are a fool. Dude, this is so obvious. Berkeley has been and will remain one of the 10 best schools in the nation, and it is one of the only places outside of HYSCCN that can still honestly boast the 160k median that we all dreamed of back in 2007. UCI is completely un-tested, and fvor decades will not have an alumni network to help you out. I can't believe they let people with your level of common sense into Berkeley.

Again... 99% of TopLawSchools knows jack about Irvine.

EDIT: By the way... just want to clarify that I don't necessarily vote Irvine over Berkeley... Quite the opposite, in fact.

[patrickd139]

Biglaw + LRAP + T10 + Established alumni + John Yoo=Berkeley at sticker

[hans3n]

Biglaw + LRAP + T10 + Established alumni + John Yoo=Berkeley at sticker

I wouldn't necessarily say John Yoo is a sure fire positive for a school.

[84Sunbird2000]

Biglaw + LRAP + T10 + Established alumni - John Yoo= STILL Berkeley at sticker

FTFY

[Cupidity]

I'm honored to be the first person to tell you that you are a fool. Dude, this is so obvious. Berkeley has been and will remain one of the 10 best schools in the nation, and it is one of the only places outside of HYSCCN that can still honestly boast the 160k median that we all dreamed of back in 2007. UCI is completely un-tested, and fvor decades will not have an alumni network to help you out. I can't believe they let people with your level of common sense into Berkeley.

Again... 99% of TopLawSchools knows jack about Irvine.

EDIT: By the way... just want to clarify that I don't necessarily vote Irvine over Berkeley... Quite the opposite, in fact.

I, however, was seriously interested in UCI and researched it heavily. The idea of a new law school was incredibly exciting, and I figured for the first year or two employment would be great because all the Cali firms would want to test the crop. However, I decided I love BU.

[TTTennis]

UC-Berk. Why spend close to $100k when you have no idea how well an Irvine degree will do? Sure, they could break top 20 (still not as good as Berk) or they could drop to the 30s with Davis and Hastings. How would it feel to know you passed up a chance at a t10 school for another Davis? Berk, on the other hand, already has an established alumni base, reputation, and has remained a top program...you know what you're getting into.

[momo_08]

I know UCI well since before they even started their first class, so i can tell you that it will definitely be a top school once it's accredited. Don't worry too much about employment because they had over 70 employers interviewing there for the first class and undoubtedly more will join in (every single member of the inaugural class has an job/internship lined up for the summer already) . You would be getting a a great education from Top 20 professors who will know you by name regardless of class size, as well as a half tuition scholarship for the rest of your law school career. That by itself, in this economy, should be tempting. You would also have the chance to participate in the building of a school such as in groups and programs so if you're interested in getting really involved, it would be a good place for you to go with full support from the school. They also have numerous opportunities during the year for you to meet the legal community in receptions, conferences, lectures and so on, so you will be able to network early in your legal education (almost from Orientation)


I'm not telling you to choose Berkeley, rather i'm telling you not to sell Irvine short because of it's new status. It's already been tentatively placed among the top 20 for faculty and their stats only keep getting more competitive. Likely, by the time you graduate from school, it will be firmly placed in the top 20 as a fully accredited school.

That being said, good luck with everything

[ViP]

I'm honored to be the first person to tell you that you are a fool. Dude, this is so obvious. Berkeley has been and will remain one of the 10 best schools in the nation, and it is one of the only places outside of HYSCCN that can still honestly boast the 160k median that we all dreamed of back in 2007. UCI is completely un-tested, and fvor decades will not have an alumni network to help you out. I can't believe they let people with your level of common sense into Berkeley.

Again... 99% of TopLawSchools knows jack about Irvine.

EDIT: By the way... just want to clarify that I don't necessarily vote Irvine over Berkeley... Quite the opposite, in fact.

I, however, was seriously interested in UCI and researched it heavily. The idea of a new lawl skool was incredibly exciting, and I figured for the first year or two employment would be great because all the Cali firms would want to test the crop. However, I decided I love BU.

Ah, interesting. Well this post doesn't even sound like it's written by the same person that wrote your initial post, haha. Good luck with BU! I'm visiting next week, actually.

You're right about the excitement. An employer from a big law firm today told us that her local firm is very, very, very excited about UCI and can't wait to start interviewing more of its students.

[hans3n]

I wont be surprised if someone feels the need to attack what I am about to say, but, is there anything to the notion that UCI grads will be seen as similar to, if not better than, any other southern California grad from a school not ranked in the top 20/30, by firms that typically pull from the top 5-10% of those schools? I imagine those grads get some fairly attractive job offers.

[lt0826]

I can't advise you. I can say you have a very tough decision. Berkeley had the courtesy to spare me such a decision and rejected me. Not sure what choice I'd be making right now had Boalt accepted me. Definitely visit them both if you haven't already. Some people are more entrepreneurial and would thrive in the start-up environment at UCI. Others prefer to have established programs there for them and to know what to expect. I think both are great schools - and I think you will be happy regardless of which school you choose.

I will say that if I KNEW I wanted to work and live in OC, I would take UCI over Berkeley on a heartbeat. The amount of support from the community at the UCI ASD was very evident and I was very impressed with the attorneys and judges I met at the reception. They seemed as vested in UCI's success as the faculty, Dean C and Dean O.

[Son of Cicero]

it is one of the only places outside of HYSCCN that can still honestly boast the 160k median that we all dreamed of back in 2007.

I would be shocked if any sub-HYS school is still able to post $160k as the median starting salary (I'm even doubtful of H, given how steeply the number of students applying for the school's limited PI funding increased this year over past years). When it's generally the case that only students in the top 1/3 of the class at T10s are getting jobs through OCI, and when fewer firms are offering starting salaries that pass the $150k mark, where do you think students are finding these gold mine jobs?

I'd decide to go to B again if I had been in this situation, but my decision would be based on long-term calculations and not unrealistic expectations of how much I'd be banking in 3 years. Times have seriously changed at the T10.

[ToTransferOrNot]

Would you turn down Berkeley for UCLA at 1/2 tuition? Personally, I think that would be a foolish move--and I don't think anyone is seriously thinking that Irvine is going to vault UCLA any time soon.

This is a no-brainer. If we were talking UCLA or USC at full v. Irvine at half, you MIGHT have a decision to make.

[BenJ]

Obvious choice is obvious. Even a full ride at UCI is probably not worth Berkeley at sticker unless you're wedded to PI in OC or something.

[legalease9]

Berkeley Berkeley Berkeley. No question. If you do decide Irvine for some reason, at least wait for this year's rankings (April 15th) before sending in a deposit.

[Borhas]

Berkeley Berkeley Berkeley. No question. If you do decide Irvine for some reason, at least wait for this year's rankings (April 15th) before sending in a deposit.

Irvine won't be ranked this year will they?

they haven't even graduated a class yet, so they have no employment numbers, no bar passage rate, and even if they did their judge and lawyer score will be in the basement. (so it's in their interest to not be ranked yet)

[ihurtmyselftoday]

I think you already know the answer to this one.

If not:

I'm honored to be the first person to tell you that you are a fool. Dude, this is so obvious. Berkeley has been and will remain one of the 10 best schools in the nation, and it is one of the only places outside of HYSCCN that can still honestly boast the 160k median that we all dreamed of back in 2007. UCI is completely un-tested, and fvor decades will not have an alumni network to help you out. I can't believe they let people with your level of common sense into Berkeley.

[ViP]

I wont be surprised if someone feels the need to attack what I am about to say, but, is there anything to the notion that UCI grads will be seen as similar to, if not better than, any other southern California grad from a school not ranked in the top 20/30, by firms that typically pull from the top 5-10% of those schools? I imagine those grads get some fairly attractive job offers.

Were you at ASD yesterday?

I don't know what you mean by "seen as similar to," but if you're referring to legal education, all signs point to UCI producing much better lawyers than any other school in southern california (at least) upon graduation. The faculty, staff, and visiting employers were very candid and sincere in their assessment of the school and where it's going.

They are careful not to make outlandish statements like "UCI is the best law school in the world," but they are proud and confident that the innovative, interactive curriculum, the faculty, the student-faculty ratio, and the quality of students puts UCI at least on par with the very best schools in terms of legal education. It's not hard to believe at all, to be honest, when you consider that the primary factors discussed when assessing the quality of legal education are 1) quality of faculty, and 2) class size, 3) student-faculty ratio, and 4) curriculum.

Having said that, it's still hard to say where UCI grads will place in the market alongside peer schools. It's clear, though, that Dean Chemerinsky and the incredible faculty are entirely committed to placing students any and everywhere. No alum network? Dean Chemerinsky says UCI will offset that through the active work of professors and the Dean himself to personally make phone calls and visits (for individual students) and use their personal networks to find jobs for students.

[keg411]

The only reason to even consider UCI is that you figure that the faculty is going to work their tails off to make sure EVERY.SINGLE.PERSON in the first couple of classes has employment -- and good, quality employment at that. Because if UCI can't place their students, they will tank quickly and I'm sure the administration knows it. So you have to figure the first few classes will be the beneficiaries of that.

After the first few clases, who knows what will happen - especially with rising tuition $ in Cali.

Still, I would take the safe bet of Berkeley over the risk of UCI.