POLL Choosin between comparable in-state schools(AZ schools) Forum

[aIvin adams]

^ Dood, pre ITE samples don't count. Pre ITE top 15 percent from ASU would set you up nicely for immediate 6 figures and top 30% had a good crack as 75-90K starting. Hell, pre ITE the Valley had a lawyer SHORTAGE. Now only 40 biglaw 2L SA positions remain in the city. The recent grads had a very different experience than you likely will. Pre ITE I'd be first in line to be a fucking Sun Devil. You can't live in the past and the recovery will not be fast enough to restore 2007 conditions for 0Ls. We will not have another lawyer shortage for many years to come since AZ's recovery is lagging the nation.

but the OP already said he wants to work in phoenix so the only stat that matters is whether or not az jd > asu jd within phoenix. im not convinced that u of a feeds better into phoenix than asu ITE. im not convinced it doesnt, of course, but i never heard that before.

[Veyron]

^ Dood, pre ITE samples don't count. Pre ITE top 15 percent from ASU would set you up nicely for immediate 6 figures and top 30% had a good crack as 75-90K starting. Hell, pre ITE the Valley had a lawyer SHORTAGE. Now only 40 biglaw 2L SA positions remain in the city. The recent grads had a very different experience than you likely will. Pre ITE I'd be first in line to be a fucking Sun Devil. You can't live in the past and the recovery will not be fast enough to restore 2007 conditions for 0Ls. We will not have another lawyer shortage for many years to come since AZ's recovery is lagging the nation.

but the OP already said he wants to work in phoenix so the only stat that matters is whether or not az jd > asu jd within phoenix. im not convinced that u of a feeds better into phoenix than asu ITE. im not convinced it doesnt, of course, but i never heard that before.

The stats I listed are primarily for the Phoenix area. You also don't seem sure of much, maybe you ought to do some moar research?

[msbeautifulbasham]

could someone tell me what ITE means?

[aIvin adams]

could someone tell me what ITE means?

in this economy

^ Dood, pre ITE samples don't count. Pre ITE top 15 percent from ASU would set you up nicely for immediate 6 figures and top 30% had a good crack as 75-90K starting. Hell, pre ITE the Valley had a lawyer SHORTAGE. Now only 40 biglaw 2L SA positions remain in the city. The recent grads had a very different experience than you likely will. Pre ITE I'd be first in line to be a fucking Sun Devil. You can't live in the past and the recovery will not be fast enough to restore 2007 conditions for 0Ls. We will not have another lawyer shortage for many years to come since AZ's recovery is lagging the nation.

but the OP already said he wants to work in phoenix so the only stat that matters is whether or not az jd > asu jd within phoenix. im not convinced that u of a feeds better into phoenix than asu ITE. im not convinced it doesnt, of course, but i never heard that before.

The stats I listed are primarily for the Phoenix area. You also don't seem sure of much, maybe you ought to do some moar research?

for sure i ought to! but, thats what tls is for. especially when someone says smth unexpected. can you direct me to where you compared u of a and asu numbers in phoenix ITE? i scanned the posts but couldnt find. also im not on a normal computer right now its some kind of ipod or net tablet or kindle or smth. have mercy on an asu UG

[msbeautifulbasham]

could someone tell me what ITE means?

in this economy

Thanks, I've been wondering that one for a while.

[aIvin adams]

nvm i read it again and im pretty sure we're talking about 'anecdotal stats'

whats the anecdotal stuff again? thats what i would need to study if i took yer word for it that the hard stats are trash.

does a shortage fo biglaw 2L SA's in the valley affect asu or az more for the OP? plz explain. how does a new surplus where there was a shortage affect the OP's choice of school? while its obvious asu's employment figures would be down ITE, how does that affect the OP? you dont mention az's #'s ITE.

[aIvin adams]

could someone tell me what ITE means?

in this economy

Thanks, I've been wondering that one for a while.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =2&t=18478

hth

[aIvin adams]

could someone tell me what ITE means?

in this economy

Thanks, I've been wondering that one for a while.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =2&t=18478

hth

lol 'ITE' isnt there. worst researcher ever

[Veyron]

Yah dood, antidotal stats, deal. You know what - reliable stats for schools too far outside of the T-14 DO NOT EXIST. The only attempt at compiling numbers is in the form of surveys distributed by the schools themselves that typically only the students with good jobs fill out. These surveys have awful response rates that make them statistically insignificant but most unwary saps don’t know this. Sorry to crush your sunny little world.

[aIvin adams]

Yah dood, antidotal stats, deal. You know what - reliable stats for schools too far outside of the T-14 DO NOT EXIST. The only attempt at compiling numbers is in the form of surveys distributed by the schools themselves that typically only the students with good jobs fill out. These surveys have awful response rates that make them statistically insignificant but moast unwary saps don’t know this. Sorry to crush your sunny little world.

but, what is the explanation for why asu feeds into phx worse than az ITE? or are you saying its always been that way> thats why yer post was so confusing

[Veyron]

Antidotal evidence based on people I’ve spoken to in you know, law school. Look back at the thread. What I’ve heard also makes sense given the rankings discrepancy so I’m inclined to give it some credence. Also, the official and badly flawed numbers do show U of A with a slight edge, I think the data is on both schools websites and there is an old median number for both on the profilies section here at TLS.

[aIvin adams]

Antidotal evidence based on people I’ve spoken to in you know, law school. Look back at the thread. What I’ve heard also makes sense given the rankings discrepancy so I’m inclined to give it some credence. Also, the official and badly flawed numbers do show U of A with a slight edge, I think the data is on both schools websites and there is an old median number for both on the profilies section here at TLS.

tbf, yer answer to this question went from 'i would think az' to '5% and 10%' which comes from 'a couple friends.' then when someone else has friends said that t]heir anecdotal evidence was diff than yours, you said it was the economy that explained this change. but im not sure that asu law students being hit harder ITE than az law students in phoenix is what yer friends might call... prima facie

they'll never tolerate this kind of ambiguous writing in nyu sir! know how i know? i heard it from two graduates from their, yknow, law school.

[darknightbegins]

Antidotal evidence based on people I’ve spoken to in you know, law school. Look back at the thread. What I’ve heard also makes sense given the rankings discrepancy so I’m inclined to give it some credence. Also, the official and badly flawed numbers do show U of A with a slight edge, I think the data is on both schools websites and there is an old median number for both on the profilies section here at TLS.

Discrepancy in ranking? Arizona is ranked 43 and ASU is ranked 55. Median LSAT at Arizon as 161 and the median LSAT at ASU is 161. Median GPA at Arizona is 3.51 and the median GPA at ASU is 3.6. Seems about as close as schools can get in terms of rank and stats. Guess those few spots on the ranking that Arizona has really means alot to a numbers whore, I don't see how they have any real worth.

[aIvin adams]

Antidotal evidence based on people I’ve spoken to in you know, law school. Look back at the thread. What I’ve heard also makes sense given the rankings discrepancy so I’m inclined to give it some credence. Also, the official and badly flawed numbers do show U of A with a slight edge, I think the data is on both schools websites and there is an old median number for both on the profilies section here at TLS.

Discrepancy in ranking? Arizona is ranked 43 and ASU is ranked 55. Median LSAT at Arizon as 161 and the median LSAT at ASU is 161. Median GPA at Arizona is 3.51 and the median GPA at ASU is 3.6. Seems about as close as schools can get in terms of rank and stats. Guess those few spots on the ranking that Arizona has really means alot to a numbers whore, I don't see how they have any real worth.

no!! the rankings are legit. you are only giving fodder for the az jd's of tomorrow when asu zooms past az (see asu thread)

while i appreciate Veyron's help, his anecdotal data is very limited and he didnt provide any reasoning for some of his opinions. we have had several posters on TLS remark about asu and az jd's in phoenix, and all the remarks ive seen cluster around them being about the same. as i said, im not sure.

but, if someone knows they want to work in phoenix before they even go to LS, i bet they can get better employment opportunities by going to asu. you gotta network! but thats what you gotta even if you dont go to law school. so the advantage of going to a LS in the same city you want to work is likely greater if you are deliberate about handling yer business.

i assume from the OP's certainty about working in phx that the OP is deliberate about business!

[Veyron]

[/quote] tbf, yer answer to this question went from 'i would think az' to '5% and 10%' which comes from 'a couple friends.' then when someone else has friends said that t]heir anecdotal evidence was diff than yours, you said it was the economy that explained this change. but im not sure that asu law students being hit harder ITE than az law students in phoenix is what yer friends might call... prima facie

they'll never tolerate this kind of ambiguous writing in nyu sir! know how i know? i heard it from two graduates from their, yknow, law school.[/quote]

Hmmmm, I wonder why firms don't go that deep into the class at ASU, maybe someone could help me out?

[aIvin adams]

Hmmmm, I wonder why firms don't go that deep into the class at ASU, maybe someone could help me out?

i am absolutely not trying to provoke you into being chippy, but...

what?

[darknightbegins]

Hmmmm, I wonder why firms don't go that deep into the class at ASU, maybe someone could help me out?

If I believe your claim that firms "don't go that deep into the class at ASU" which I don't when we are talking ASU vs University of Arizona unless you can give me some solid numbers the answer could be for several reasons. Your assumptions aren't necessarily justified. Each of us could engage in speculation but I'm not sure how useful this is to the OP. From the objective stats I have seen, that is LSAT and GPA, as well as their proximity on in USNWR rankings it seems these schools are about as close as you could get. If you are going to claim one is significantly better than the other than you should have some evidence beyond a few friends to support your claim.

This is why I said, which school has the hotter chicks? It seems the schools are pretty even every where else, so start looking at quality of life. For that I take ASU.

And for the record I have no big dog in this fight. I got wait listed at Arizona and still have yet to hear back from ASU. I likely will attend neither school.

[Veyron]

Hmmmm, I wonder why firms don't go that deep into the class at ASU, maybe someone could help me out?

i am absolutely not trying to provoke you into being chippy, but...

what?

NVMD, too daft for ASU, try Cooley.

My point is that no firm evidence exists either way, this discussion has to be based on conjecture or it can't happen (unless someone has access to Squire Sanders's recruiting guidelines or something).

Dark night, I'm willing to go with your take - since both schools have abysmal career prospects ITE, choosing based on girls is proly the credited response. I also have no dog in this fight, thats why I'm going to NYU I hear (anecdotally) they do all right in Phoenix. Maybe I should get some firm stats?

[aIvin adams]

This is why I said, which school has the hotter chicks? It seems the schools are pretty even every where else, so start looking at quality of life. For that I take ASU.

i love tempe (and live there) and also really like scottsdale as well as bars in cenpho and all over, but 4th ave is pretty awesoem.

[aIvin adams]

Hmmmm, I wonder why firms don't go that deep into the class at ASU, maybe someone could help me out?

i am absolutely not trying to provoke you into being chippy, but...

what?

NVMD, too daft even for ASU.

My point is that no firm evidence exists either way, this discussion has to be based on conjecture or it can't happen (unless someone has access to Squire Sanders's recruiting guidelines or something).

one thing we've got at asu is plenty of sunshine and me, aIvin adams, ready with a shoulder to rest yer head on and ease yer fears. do not worry my friend! the law community is indeed collaborative. and i am here for you

also, there are other things we could base our discussion on besides yer 'conjecture' or remarkably limited anecdotal evidence.

besides the employment stats which you both used and called 'junk,' there's also the student body hard stats that darkknight poitned out, as well as the common sense networking advantage that i pointed out.

there may be other pieces of information for us to consider yet to be revealed! that is, if we may be so daft as to keep this discussion open despite yer authoritative application of amorphous anecdotal assessments from yer anonymous associates.

[darknightbegins]

Fuck those ye and yer are getting annoying. ASU has the hotter chicks and from what I have heard the easier chicks to get in the sack. Therefore, ASU FTW.

[AsexualChocolate]

Fuck those ye and yer are getting annoying. ASU has the hotter chicks and from what I have heard the easier chicks to get in the sack. Therefore, ASU FTW.

Quite the poet...

[aIvin adams]

Hmmmm, I wonder why firms don't go that deep into the class at ASU, maybe someone could help me out?

i am absolutely not trying to provoke you into being chippy, but...

what?

NVMD, too daft for ASU, try Cooley.

My point is that no firm evidence exists either way, this discussion has to be based on conjecture or it can't happen (unless someone has access to Squire Sanders's recruiting guidelines or something).

Dark night, I'm willing to go with your take - since both schools have abysmal career prospects ITE, choosing based on girls is proly the credited response. I also have no dog in this fight, thats why I'm going to NYU I hear (anecdotally) they do all right in Phoenix. Maybe I should get some firm stats?

i will hire you. because, as you have both said and demonstrated, the legal community is collaborative.

[aIvin adams]

Fuck those ye and yer are getting annoying. ASU has the hotter chicks and from what I have heard the easier chicks to get in the sack. Therefore, ASU FTW.

while i respect and endorse yer fixation on fornication, it doesnt seem like you have pro moves. easy isnt worth much unless yer drunk and angry at yer family, society, or god. when in a good mood, act like a URM at harvard: be a gunner and go for pres of law review. thats what i did and now i have a very beautiful wife.

[darknightbegins]

Fuck those ye and yer are getting annoying. ASU has the hotter chicks and from what I have heard the easier chicks to get in the sack. Therefore, ASU FTW.

Quite the poet...

Its a gift.