Minnesota ($$$) v. UCLA ($$) v. UVA (sticker) Forum

[itsirtou]

Barring a late acceptance from Chicago/NYU or getting in off the waitlist at Columbia, I think these are my top three choices. (I'd put Vandy in there as a choice, but as much as I loved it for undergrad, I want to go somewhere new. )

Minnesota is offering me a beastly scholarship -- just under $60k PER YEAR. I don't want to move to Minnesota, but how hard is it to turn down $180,000??

UCLA is giving me 75k over three years, plus about 12k in financial aid for my first year. I know that I like California, but I'm worried about COL. I'm visiting them for their ASD next month.

Finally, UVa. I was ecstatic to get in, and from what I'm hearing, the atmosphere there is great. I'm just worried about paying full price -- I know for a fact I'm not getting any kind of scholarship. I'm visiting there next month too.

One of the most important things for me is portability. I know that I want to live on one of the coasts, but I don't know where yet, and I don't want to be tied down to a specific region. I'd also really like to get a clerkship after law school, but I know that's contingent on being super excellent, so I'm not banking on that for sure. I want to do either public interest law (hence my worry about paying sticker at a school) or constitutional law/impact litigation.

Anyway, any help is greatly appreciated!

[brose002]

Minnesota, unless you really want Biglaw. In that case I would go with UVA if you want east coast, UCLA if you want west coast.

[itsirtou]

Minnesota, unless you really want Biglaw. In that case I would go with UVA if you want east coast, UCLA if you want west coast.

I'm definitely not invested in the idea of Biglaw. I guess I was looking for a way to postpone deciding on where I wanted to live -- I heard UVa places decently on the West Coast as well as East Coast, so I'm wondering if going there would be good because it would offer me lots of choices on where to live. I'm being really wishywashy on making that decision. I'm afraid of going to Minnesota for the huge scholarship and then not being able to find jobs outside of Minnesota, and the same with UCLA.

[showNprove]

Minnesota is offering me a beastly scholarship -- just under $60k PER YEAR. I don't want to move to Minnesota, but how hard is it to turn down $180,000??

It's definitely a lot of money, and nothing to sneeze at, but people turn down this kind of money at Columbia to go to higher-ranked schools, so it's not unheard of. And you'd be gaining a lot more by going from Minn to UVa than you would from Columbia to Harvard.

One of the most important things for me is portability. I know that I want to live on one of the coasts, but I don't know where yet, and I don't want to be tied down to a specific region. I'd also really like to get a clerkship after law school, but I know that's contingent on being super excellent, so I'm not banking on that for sure. I want to do either public interest law (hence my worry about paying sticker at a school) or constitutional law/impact litigation.

Anyway, any help is greatly appreciated!

The bolded right away knocks out Minnesota. Not that you can't get a job on the coast coming out of Minnesota, but if you're not comfortable with the idea of living in the Midwest, you shouldn't go to Minnesota.

Obviously, UVa is the better school for you, considering your interests. Great clerkship placement, close to DC where there is a ton of PI work, one of the best conlaw/legal history faculties in the country, and a very strong skills program for preparing for litigation (not to mention once again the proximity to DC). Is that worth $75k? That's only for you to decide, but I know a lot of people here who passed up that kind of money (or more) at the 11-19 schools to come to UVa.

[showNprove]

I'm definitely not invested in the idea of Biglaw. I guess I was looking for a way to postpone deciding on where I wanted to live -- I heard UVa places decently on the West Coast as well as East Coast, so I'm wondering if going there would be good because it would offer me lots of choices on where to live. I'm being really wishywashy on making that decision. I'm afraid of going to Minnesota for the huge scholarship and then not being able to find jobs outside of Minnesota, and the same with UCLA.

FWIW, the west coast people at UVa are having some of the best outcomes in their career search. The UVa degree has a surprisingly terrific reputation on the West Coast, and there are so few UVa law grads out there (except in Utah ) that you'll be adding to almost any firm's "academic diversity."

The being-stuck-in-a-region concerns you have are valid, even for UCLA, IMHO.

[brose002]

Minnesota, unless you really want Biglaw. In that case I would go with UVA if you want east coast, UCLA if you want west coast.

I'm definitely not invested in the idea of Biglaw. I guess I was looking for a way to postpone deciding on where I wanted to live -- I heard UVa places decently on the West Coast as well as East Coast, so I'm wondering if going there would be good because it would offer me lots of choices on where to live. I'm being really wishywashy on making that decision. I'm afraid of going to Minnesota for the huge scholarship and then not being able to find jobs outside of Minnesota, and the same with UCLA.

Those are definitely valid concerns, and with UCLA and Minnesota, you are going to find schools that are largely regional. UVA would be your best option for national placement, but I still think I full ride with stipend at a t-20 law school is something that you need to think long and hard about dismissing.

edit: I should note that Minnesota dominates clerkships within its state.

[opus127]

OP, I am in a similar position (my LSN is linked in profile), and have been seeking advice from a variety of lawyers I know (older/younger, working in firms/academia/PI, etc). The basic message I've been getting is this: if you do extremely well at MN, you will have very similar opportunities to those a UVA grad who does well might have, but doing decently at a T10 school will just make it much more likely that all (or many of) the doors are open to you. (MN gets knocked a lot of this board, but I think it really is a strong school.)

Clearly you have presented yourself well in your applications, and MN and UCLA believe you will excel in their programs. On the other hand, law school grades, especially for the 1st semester, can be something of a gamble.

Also, it's worth sending Dean Trujillo (at UVA) a letter/e-mail detailing your interest in UVA and explaining your other offers. No, they're not from "peer institutions," but you don't lose anything by asking and you might get some assistance.

As the others have said, be sure to visit all 3 schools, and come prepared with questions specific to what you hope to get out of your 3 years of law school.

I did not vote in your poll -- it's a decision you'll have to make yourself. Good luck!

[itsirtou]

Minnesota is offering me a beastly scholarship -- just under $60k PER YEAR. I don't want to move to Minnesota, but how hard is it to turn down $180,000??

It's definitely a lot of money, and nothing to sneeze at, but people turn down this kind of money at Columbia to go to higher-ranked schools, so it's not unheard of. And you'd be gaining a lot more by going from Minn to UVa than you would from Columbia to Harvard.

One of the most important things for me is portability. I know that I want to live on one of the coasts, but I don't know where yet, and I don't want to be tied down to a specific region. I'd also really like to get a clerkship after law school, but I know that's contingent on being super excellent, so I'm not banking on that for sure. I want to do either public interest law (hence my worry about paying sticker at a school) or constitutional law/impact litigation.

Anyway, any help is greatly appreciated!

The bolded right away knocks out Minnesota. Not that you can't get a job on the coast coming out of Minnesota, but if you're not comfortable with the idea of living in the Midwest, you shouldn't go to Minnesota.

Obviously, UVa is the better school for you, considering your interests. Great clerkship placement, close to DC where there is a ton of PI work, one of the best conlaw/legal history faculties in the country, and a very strong skills program for preparing for litigation (not to mention once again the proximity to DC). Is that worth $75k? That's only for you to decide, but I know a lot of people here who passed up that kind of money (or more) at the 11-19 schools to come to UVa.

FWIW, the west coast people at UVa are having some of the best outcomes in their career search. The UVa degree has a surprisingly terrific reputation on the West Coast, and there are so few UVa law grads out there (except in Utah ) that you'll be adding to almost any firm's "academic diversity."

The being-stuck-in-a-region concerns you have are valid, even for UCLA, IMHO.

I've lived in the Midwest (Missouri) for my whole life, so I'm definitely itching to get out. Everything you said about UVa sounds so appealing -- DC proximity, conlaw, PI, clerkships...I know that I'd love either school and get a great education either way, but I'm starting to think that UVa just fits me a bit better. Plus getting stuck in a region is one of my biggest concerns, especially since if I went to UCLA I'd probably want to move to NorCal, and then I'd have to compete with Berkeley grads. Thanks for the advice.

[itsirtou]

Minnesota, unless you really want Biglaw. In that case I would go with UVA if you want east coast, UCLA if you want west coast.

I'm definitely not invested in the idea of Biglaw. I guess I was looking for a way to postpone deciding on where I wanted to live -- I heard UVa places decently on the West Coast as well as East Coast, so I'm wondering if going there would be good because it would offer me lots of choices on where to live. I'm being really wishywashy on making that decision. I'm afraid of going to Minnesota for the huge scholarship and then not being able to find jobs outside of Minnesota, and the same with UCLA.

Those are definitely valid concerns, and with UCLA and Minnesota, you are going to find schools that are largely regional. UVA would be your best option for national placement, but I still think I full ride with stipend at a t-20 law school is something that you need to think long and hard about dismissing.

edit: I should note that Minnesota dominates clerkships within its state.

I definitely do need to put a lot of thought into dismissing so much money from a t-20. A poster said below that I could go to Minnesota and not be regionally-stuck if I excel in the class, which is a good point, but it makes me nervous to bank on that. I kinda want to flee the Midwest. Thanks for your advice...clearly I have a lot of thinking to do.

[09042014]

Barring a late acceptance from Chicago/NYU or getting in off the waitlist at Columbia, I think these are my top three choices. (I'd put Vandy in there as a choice, but as much as I loved it for undergrad, I want to go somewhere new. )

Minnesota is offering me a beastly scholarship -- just under $60k PER YEAR. I don't want to move to Minnesota, but how hard is it to turn down $180,000??

UCLA is giving me 75k over three years, plus about 12k in financial aid for my first year. I know that I like California, but I'm worried about COL. I'm visiting them for their ASD next month.

Finally, UVa. I was ecstatic to get in, and from what I'm hearing, the atmosphere there is great. I'm just worried about paying full price -- I know for a fact I'm not getting any kind of scholarship. I'm visiting there next month too.

One of the most important things for me is portability. I know that I want to live on one of the coasts, but I don't know where yet, and I don't want to be tied down to a specific region. I'd also really like to get a clerkship after law school, but I know that's contingent on being super excellent, so I'm not banking on that for sure. I want to do either public interest law (hence my worry about paying sticker at a school) or constitutional law/impact litigation.

Anyway, any help is greatly appreciated!

Are you sure that is 60K per year? Or 20K for 3 years.

Because Minnesota COA isn't even 60K.

You'd literally be getting paid to go to Minnesota. Not a single dollar of debt.

If you are looking for portability, take UVA.

[itsirtou]

Barring a late acceptance from Chicago/NYU or getting in off the waitlist at Columbia, I think these are my top three choices. (I'd put Vandy in there as a choice, but as much as I loved it for undergrad, I want to go somewhere new. )

Minnesota is offering me a beastly scholarship -- just under $60k PER YEAR. I don't want to move to Minnesota, but how hard is it to turn down $180,000??

UCLA is giving me 75k over three years, plus about 12k in financial aid for my first year. I know that I like California, but I'm worried about COL. I'm visiting them for their ASD next month.

Finally, UVa. I was ecstatic to get in, and from what I'm hearing, the atmosphere there is great. I'm just worried about paying full price -- I know for a fact I'm not getting any kind of scholarship. I'm visiting there next month too.

One of the most important things for me is portability. I know that I want to live on one of the coasts, but I don't know where yet, and I don't want to be tied down to a specific region. I'd also really like to get a clerkship after law school, but I know that's contingent on being super excellent, so I'm not banking on that for sure. I want to do either public interest law (hence my worry about paying sticker at a school) or constitutional law/impact litigation.

Anyway, any help is greatly appreciated!

Are you sure that is 60K per year? Or 20K for 3 years.

Because Minnesota COA isn't even 60K.

You'd literally be getting paid to go to Minnesota. Not a single dollar of debt.

If you are looking for portability, take UVA.

It actually is 60k per year...I even called to make sure, because I was sure it had to be a mistake. That's what's stopping me from withdrawing from there.

[09042014]

Barring a late acceptance from Chicago/NYU or getting in off the waitlist at Columbia, I think these are my top three choices. (I'd put Vandy in there as a choice, but as much as I loved it for undergrad, I want to go somewhere new. )

Minnesota is offering me a beastly scholarship -- just under $60k PER YEAR. I don't want to move to Minnesota, but how hard is it to turn down $180,000??

UCLA is giving me 75k over three years, plus about 12k in financial aid for my first year. I know that I like California, but I'm worried about COL. I'm visiting them for their ASD next month.

Finally, UVa. I was ecstatic to get in, and from what I'm hearing, the atmosphere there is great. I'm just worried about paying full price -- I know for a fact I'm not getting any kind of scholarship. I'm visiting there next month too.

One of the most important things for me is portability. I know that I want to live on one of the coasts, but I don't know where yet, and I don't want to be tied down to a specific region. I'd also really like to get a clerkship after law school, but I know that's contingent on being super excellent, so I'm not banking on that for sure. I want to do either public interest law (hence my worry about paying sticker at a school) or constitutional law/impact litigation.

Anyway, any help is greatly appreciated!

Are you sure that is 60K per year? Or 20K for 3 years.

Because Minnesota COA isn't even 60K.

You'd literally be getting paid to go to Minnesota. Not a single dollar of debt.

If you are looking for portability, take UVA.

It actually is 60k per year...I even called to make sure, because I was sure it had to be a mistake. That's what's stopping me from withdrawing from there.

Since you want public interest, constitutional law, etc I think you'd make a big mistake not taking Minnesota. You will graduate with not a single dollars of debt. Do you know how liberating that is?

[beef wellington]

UVA is rumored to be revamping their LRAP. Get with them and find out what you can about it. Assuming the upgrade is similar to what other top schools have done in the last few months then it could very well translate to a free education a la Minnesota's offer (the obvious difference being you'd have to spend 10 years in PI where UMN would be free no matter what). If you're comfortable with that, go to UVA, because everything else in your OP points in that direction.

[itsirtou]

Well, I just checked UCLA's ePAL thing online, and it turns out they're offering me more than I thought -- roughly 1/2 tuition (35,000 per year in loans, 35,000 in grants). Considering UVa isn't giving me anything and that I'd have about 80,000 more debt going there, UCLA is becoming more persuasive by the minute.

My question is this, I guess: if I go to UCLA because they're offering me money, am I really hampering my ability to get a clerkship after school? Also, since so much PI work is in DC, should I pick UVa over UCLA despite the money so I can get into the DC public interest? I'd consider San Fransisco, too, but then I'd be competing with Berkeley grads.

Thanks guys...I'm having such a difficult time with this decision! 180k is a really scary number.

[Great Satchmo]

Well, I just checked UCLA's ePAL thing online, and it turns out they're offering me more than I thought -- roughly 1/2 tuition (35,000 per year in loans, 35,000 in grants). Considering UVa isn't giving me anything and that I'd have about 80,000 more debt going there, UCLA is becoming more persuasive by the minute.

My question is this, I guess: if I go to UCLA because they're offering me money, am I really hampering my ability to get a clerkship after school? Also, since so much PI work is in DC, should I pick UVa over UCLA despite the money so I can get into the DC public interest? I'd consider San Fransisco, too, but then I'd be competing with Berkeley grads.

Thanks guys...I'm having such a difficult time with this decision! 180k is a really scary number.

What is your fear of competing with Boalt grads? You will compete with T-14 grads anywhere and everywhere. They aren't locusts and there are only so many, and there are only even less than that who want the job you are applying for. They aren't all top of their class. Putting that aside, UCLA is a helluva school. It's not like you'd be a T4 applicant for a job applying against Yale grads.

If you want to work in DC, go to UVa.

If you want to work in CA, go to UCLA.

You want options? I'd probably go with UCLA or Minnesota. Less debt means you're less bound to working a job out of necessity rather than interest. UVa is a great choice, but you will have the debt to worry about.

[bloodonthetracks]

just to chime in, minneapolis is a very underrated city. i have never lived there, but i have visited. and i have friends and family from bigger cities who have lived there temporarily and have very good things to say about it.