GULC (sticker) v. UMich ($) [for a career in DC] Forum

[jjons101]

First, let me ask: am I correct that admission from WL = no chance at merit aid? I assume so, and thus no $ from GULC. Michigan will give me $15k/year. However, DC is probably my first choice city for long-term career post-law school. I currently live and work in DC, and GULC would be convenient. I know Michigan has a higher (generic, overall) ranking, but what about Mich v. GULC strictly in regards to DC jobs?

In looking at hundreds of attorney bios at the top firms in DC several things are clear: local schools have disproportionately strong placement. GULC does tremendously. Actually GW does too - in great disproportion to its stupid USNWR rank.

I don't want to live in the midwest or michigan after LS, though a couple years there is fine. Would it be dumb to pass up the best school in the town where I want to practice, and then try to come back for a job? At lots of the best DC firms, you might have 0-1 partners from Michigan plus a couple associates, but 3+ partners from GULC and a dozen associates.

tl;dr version: which (UMich or GULC) would be better for a career in DC as a practitioner?

[starsong]

Tough call. You already know that UM is ranked higher and therefore has greater career potential. But if you're absolutely sold on DC, GULC may be better simply due to the connections you can form while here.

Bottom line: UM won't limit you to the midwest, but GULC may ensure you stay in DC.

[scribelaw]

I don't see how this is much of a choice.

Michigan has far better placement and will be substantially cheaper than Georgetown (at sticker with a much higher COL).

Even for DC, I'd pick Michigan. At Georgetown, you'll be competing against 650 classmates, the vast majority of whom will want DC. Michigan is a better school, has a far smaller class size, and a lot of your classmates will be going for NYC/Chicago/California, leaving less competition at OCI.

Go to Michigan.

[im_blue]

I don't see how this is much of a choice.

Michigan has far better placement and will be substantially cheaper than Georgetown (at sticker with a much higher COL).

Even for DC, I'd pick Michigan. At Georgetown, you'll be competing against 650 classmates, the vast majority of whom will want DC. Michigan is a better school, has a far smaller class size, and a lot of your classmates will be going for NYC/Chicago/California, leaving less competition at OCI.

Go to Michigan.

TITCR. Michigan is a no-brainer, especially at lower cost.

[starsong]

I don't see how this is much of a choice.

Michigan has far better placement and will be substantially cheaper than Georgetown (at sticker with a much higher COL).

Even for DC, I'd pick Michigan. At Georgetown, you'll be competing against 650 classmates, the vast majority of whom will want DC. Michigan is a better school, has a far smaller class size, and a lot of your classmates will be going for NYC/Chicago/California, leaving less competition at OCI.

Go to Michigan.

TITCR. Michigan is a no-brainer, especially at lower cost.

I disagree. Placement is a function of supply as well as demand: more GULC students want DC, but more GULC students will get DC as well, thanks to local reputation and networking. There is a tendency on TLS to discount the latter, especially in the case of someone like OP who already lives in the area and likely has existing relationships.

Like I said, Michigan won't limit you to the mid-west. But you won't have the networking opportunities from living in Washington for the three years of law school. DC is a hard market to break into, and connections can help a lot. If you're absolutely dead-set on DC--i.e. ending up in NYC would be totally unacceptable--give GULC a good, hard look. Otherwise, take the money from UMich and give yourself more flexibility + less debt.

[Corsair]

..

[panda]

I don't see how this is much of a choice.

Michigan has far better placement and will be substantially cheaper than Georgetown (at sticker with a much higher COL).

Even for DC, I'd pick Michigan. At Georgetown, you'll be competing against 650 classmates, the vast majority of whom will want DC. Michigan is a better school, has a far smaller class size, and a lot of your classmates will be going for NYC/Chicago/California, leaving less competition at OCI.

Go to Michigan.

TITCR. Michigan is a no-brainer, especially at lower cost.

I disagree. Placement is a function of supply as well as demand: more GULC students want DC, but more GULC students will get DC as well, thanks to local reputation and networking. There is a tendency on TLS to discount the latter, especially in the case of someone like OP who already lives in the area and likely has existing relationships.

Like I said, Michigan won't limit you to the mid-west. But you won't have the networking opportunities from living in Washington for the three years of law school. DC is a hard market to break into, and connections can help a lot. If you're absolutely dead-set on DC--i.e. ending up in NYC would be totally unacceptable--give GULC a good, hard look. Otherwise, take the money from UMich and give yourself more flexibility + less debt.

this is just wrong. if you already have contacts in DC, you can maintain them. as for building contacts, it is unlikely that during those three years in law school, a student will build enough contacts to make Gtown a better choice than MI with money. If you weigh the benefits, it always ends up in MI's favor. Plus, the poster above is write, an MI student is more competitive in DC than a Gtown student, because of less competition. And if your grades aren't as high as you want them to be, the likelihood of beating out the higher ranked Gtown students is unlikely, and you will have much less competition from the MI students in that field.

the lower amount of debt, cost of living, higher rank, etc.. they all just point to one answer.

MI.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

It is possible to recieve merit aid coming off a waitlist. If gulc is one of your top choices try to visit and make sure you send a loci if you have not yet.

[irishman86]

Tough call. You already know that UM is ranked higher and therefore has greater career potential. But if you're absolutely sold on DC, GULC may be better simply due to the connections you can form while here.

Bottom line: UM won't limit you to the midwest, but GULC may ensure you stay in DC.

Seriously? "Won't limit you?" The VAST MAJORITY of UM grads don't even end up in the Midwest. NYC, DC, and California are popular locations, as well as Chicago. More people from UM end up in New York than anywhere else. You need to do research before you speak.

Georgetown has the WORST placement out of all the top 14, partly because of its very large class size. Its OCI this past year was horrendous. It's really a no-brainer that Michigan is TCR.

[Oblomov]

n

[starsong]

Tough call. You already know that UM is ranked higher and therefore has greater career potential. But if you're absolutely sold on DC, GULC may be better simply due to the connections you can form while here.

Bottom line: UM won't limit you to the midwest, but GULC may ensure you stay in DC.

Seriously? "Won't limit you?" The VAST MAJORITY of UM grads don't even end up in the Midwest. NYC, DC, and California are popular locations, as well as Chicago. More people from UM end up in New York than anywhere else. You need to do research before you speak.

Dude, chill out. I was responding to OP's comment that "I don't want to live in the midwest or michigan after LS". Relax.

Georgetown has the WORST placement out of all the top 14, partly because of its very large class size. Its OCI this past year was horrendous. It's really a no-brainer that Michigan is TCR.

I don't remember OP mentioning national OCI placement. Didn't he say "I know Michigan has a higher (generic, overall) ranking, but what about Mich v. GULC strictly in regards to DC jobs?"

For not reading carefully, you really get worked up. Take a chill pill.

[starsong]

How well do you network?

While the market looks to be improving, it's not going to be like 2006. If you're in the middle of the class who you know can be very important. Obviously the UoM degree is preferable, but if you have a lot of chances to network, and you're good at it, GULC might be better for you. Plus, you could stay in the same place for 3+ years. Moving around in the summer is a pain and potentially expensive. I don't think there's a clear answer.

+1. It's a legitimate, difficult question. Depends a lot on your ultimate goal: if it's market-paying biglaw, with no preference re. location, UM is the clear winner. If you wouldn't be happy outside of DC, you're willing and able to network effectively, and you're OK with the possibility of less than biglaw, GULC deserves serious consideration.

I agree with Oblomov that you should take into account summer moving costs as well.

[promike1]

Are Georgetown's biglaw prospects in DC seriously that much lower than UMich?

[badwithpseudonyms]

I wouldn't say necessarily that GULC has stronger placement in DC simply because there are more GULC grads in DC. GULC's FT class alone is significantly larger than Michigan, and then there's PT students too. I'm not familiar with GULC grads geographic diversity, but I would imagine that a fairly significant portion remain in the DC area after graduation, whereas not many UM grads stay in Michigan, let alone the Midwest (Chicago excluded).

If you decide you'd rather be in DC for three years, that's fine. Everyone has different priorities. But Michigan with $ > GULC.

Go to GULC. Give the spot and the $ to someone who'd give an appendage to go to Michigan.

[dudester]

How well do you network?

While the market looks to be improving, it's not going to be like 2006. If you're in the middle of the class who you know can be very important. Obviously the UoM degree is preferable, but if you have a lot of chances to network, and you're good at it, GULC might be better for you. Plus, you could stay in the same place for 3+ years. Moving around in the summer is a pain and potentially expensive. I don't think there's a clear answer.

Networking at a diploma mill is overrated.

[kurla88]

Make a poll. But Michigan all the way. Gtown has a pretty bad rep on this board as far as being a giant diploma mill/really competitive etc. Obviously to be taken with a grain of salt, but still. Michigan in contrast is perceived as being collegial, fun, fairly small etc.

In addition to the scholarship, it's much cheaper to live in Ann Arbor, and it can't hurt to have 3 years away from DC if you intend to live there long term.

Do you have other options? Penn or UVA?

[Tomato Stevens]

If GULC doesn't give you >30k/yr (which I am assuming they won't), pack your coats and go to Ann Arbor!

[270910]

I don't see how this is much of a choice.

Michigan has far better placement and will be substantially cheaper than Georgetown (at sticker with a much higher COL).

Even for DC, I'd pick Michigan. At Georgetown, you'll be competing against 650 classmates, the vast majority of whom will want DC. Michigan is a better school, has a far smaller class size, and a lot of your classmates will be going for NYC/Chicago/California, leaving less competition at OCI.

Go to Michigan.

TITCR. Michigan is a no-brainer, especially at lower cost.

+1,000,000

Are Georgetown's biglaw prospects in DC seriously that much lower than UMich?

Yes. DC is a town of transplants. Georgetown is the undisputed champion... of every school ranked below Georgetown.

[fortissimo]

How well do you network?

While the market looks to be improving, it's not going to be like 2006. If you're in the middle of the class who you know can be very important. Obviously the UoM degree is preferable, but if you have a lot of chances to network, and you're good at it, GULC might be better for you. Plus, you could stay in the same place for 3+ years. Moving around in the summer is a pain and potentially expensive. I don't think there's a clear answer.

Networking at a diploma mill is overrated.

Seriously, not to mention networking in general is overrated if you want biglaw. Unless you know a partner really well who will definitely hire you, I think networking is pretty much nonexistent for biglaw. If you want biglaw, it's pretty much just based on your grades (and your school) and you can pretty much only get biglaw via OCI ite (not mass mailing or whatever used to work in the past).

Anecdotally, Georgetown's OCI was (particularly) a major shitfest this past OCI.