Villanova v. Pitt Forum

[kartal]

I'm not sure if this was at me or not, but here you go.

Oakland, is probably like 500 plus utilities, but its mostly undergrads, I live here now - most law students live in Shadyside and Squirrel Hill and take the bus in. Neighborhoods are nicer, quieter, and have better apartments. They're in the 5-700 range. I'm looking at 2 brs right now. They range from 900 to 1,500 depending on the location, size, quality etc.

It looks like that you attend Pitt Law. I could not find a thread that discusses the Pitt Law. I appreciate if you can answer my below questions.

1. What is the typical section size?

2. How is the grading curve at your law school?

3. Do you see your law school as a cut-throat (very competitive) school or not so?

4. Does the school use the Socratic method?

5. How are the job prospects for the students not at top 10%?

6. What is your favorite part about your law school?

7. Does the faculty lean more liberal or conservative? How about the student body?

8. How generous is the school in granting scholarships?

Thanks in advance.

[Colton]

I'm not sure if this was at me or not, but here you go.

Oakland, is probably like 500 plus utilities, but its mostly undergrads, I live here now - most law students live in Shadyside and Squirrel Hill and take the bus in. Neighborhoods are nicer, quieter, and have better apartments. They're in the 5-700 range. I'm looking at 2 brs right now. They range from 900 to 1,500 depending on the location, size, quality etc.

It looks like that you attend Pitt Law. I could not find a thread that discusses the Pitt Law. I appreciate if you can answer my below questions.

1. What is the typical section size?

2. How is the grading curve at your law school?

3. Do you see your law school as a cut-throat (very competitive) school or not so?

4. Does the school use the Socratic method?

5. How are the job prospects for the students not at top 10%?

6. What is your favorite part about your law school?

7. Does the faculty lean more liberal or conservative? How about the student body?

8. How generous is the school in granting scholarships?

Thanks in advance.

here you go: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =7&t=96420


1. There are 3 sections of 80 and smaller writing sections of 20ish.

2. 3.0+ so pretty good. Also, we dont rank so there is less pressure.

3. Its not cut-throat at all. People are nice, down to earth, very few gunners, and the social pressure on them to stop is pretty strong. It's an extremely friendly law school, I never would have thought it would have been such a great experience on the interpersonal level based on what everyone reads about law school.

4. Some professors do, some don't so much, most use a hybrid. I will say though that nearly everyone prefers it, actually. It makes for more engaging and exciting classes.

5. I'm not in the top 10%. I'll be working at a firm in DC, another non-10% is working at the NLRB in NYC. Networking is big no doubt, but there are ton of pitt alums who open doors for you and there is no question that Pitt has pittsburgh locked up. Knowing you have a natural market to utilize ITE is a big help. You dont have to travel to make great connections or to work part-time.

7. Politics really never comes up at all, except in con-law. That said, the facutly is very middle of road politically, other than Prof. Lobel who is a big time Liberal. [He just had a case before the SCOTUS two weeks ago for what its worth] But, everyone is very respectful. Students are what I would describe as pretty moderate. It's a much less political environment than I would have guessed before law school. I personally think there are slightly more conservatives than liberals, but then I'm a liberal so who knows. I know some very hardcore libertarians and some strong socialists and everything in between. Law tends to be a more conservative field. No one tolerates assholes though regardless of their political positions. Lastly, law school has a way of making everyone say, "well that depends," and I think that spills over in to everyones politics too. If that makes sense.

8. I think they're pretty generous. seems like everyone got some money, many got the 14k deans scholarship. I however did not. lol.

[stayway]

This is an extremely difficult decision for me. my "heart" is leaning toward Pitt for some reason (i havent even visited the city/school yet) but still attracted to Nova for its decent private school prestige and biglaw prospects. the living cost is ridiculous at Nova. (i.e. Pitt's university owned graduate housing single bedroom including all utilities is $750ish while Nova's single bedroom apartments range from $1000 to $1100 without electricity). of course this is all excluding food costs, parking permits, etc. For me currently my tuition taking schollys into consideration is both 20k. The thing is for Pitt, I would qualify for in-state 2L and 3L; Nova will stay 20k. Also, I'm not sure how much financial aid i'll receive (assuming $5000 a year).

Apart from the COL, the prospect of getting a decent paying job ($70k+) is making my decision difficult.

Pitt seems to have the Pitt market on lockdown apart from the occasional t14. I know three biglaw firms stationed in Pitt (KL, Reed, JD). I assume if one can get a job from one of those firms it would be around $100k. and the $100k with little debt remaining after 3 years at Pitt makes it EXTREMELY attractive. However, I can't always expect the best scenario. How likely is it to achieve this? I've heard some biglaw firms don't hire from Pitt. Some say biglaw is almost improbable for Pitt.

Villanova seems to have a better prospect at biglaw. But like some TLS'ers said, several law schools compete for the Philly market - Temple, Penn (who remain in the area), PSU, and Drexel. But then again, the market is much larger than Pitt. If I were to go to Villanova, I'd have almost twice the debt I would have from Pitt. And looking at optimal results from both schools, I'll end up with around $100k salary (i said optimal, meaning me making top 10% of the class).

I'm still not sure which school to decide on. I will e-mail both Villanova and Pitt to 'squeeze' some more money out of each one. Should I just go to the school that is willing to give me more money? Which school is just plain better? Which school would you pick if you were in my shoes?

I know I've asked these questions many times on TLS but I just can't seem to make a decision. With the deposit deadlines approaching I'm worried.

Please give me some input on this dilemma.

Thanks.

[FunkyJD]

This is an extremely difficult decision for me. my "heart" is leaning toward Pitt for some reason (i havent even visited the city/school yet) but still attracted to Nova for its decent private school prestige and biglaw prospects. the living cost is ridiculous at Nova. (i.e. Pitt's university owned graduate housing single bedroom including all utilities is $750ish while Nova's single bedroom apartments range from $1000 to $1100 without electricity). of course this is all excluding food costs, parking permits, etc. For me currently my tuition taking schollys into consideration is both 20k. The thing is for Pitt, I would qualify for in-state 2L and 3L; Nova will stay 20k. Also, I'm not sure how much financial aid i'll receive (assuming $5000 a year).

Apart from the COL, the prospect of getting a decent paying job ($70k+) is making my decision difficult.

Pitt seems to have the Pitt market on lockdown apart from the occasional t14. I know three biglaw firms stationed in Pitt (KL, Reed, JD). I assume if one can get a job from one of those firms it would be around $100k. and the $100k with little debt remaining after 3 years at Pitt makes it EXTREMELY attractive. However, I can't always expect the best scenario. How likely is it to achieve this? I've heard some biglaw firms don't hire from Pitt. Some say biglaw is almost improbable for Pitt.

Villanova seems to have a better prospect at biglaw. But like some TLS'ers said, several law schools compete for the Philly market - Temple, Penn (who remain in the area), PSU, and Drexel. But then again, the market is much larger than Pitt. If I were to go to Villanova, I'd have almost twice the debt I would have from Pitt. And looking at optimal results from both schools, I'll end up with around $100k salary (i said optimal, meaning me making top 10% of the class).

I'm still not sure which school to decide on. I will e-mail both Villanova and Pitt to 'squeeze' some more money out of each one. Should I just go to the school that is willing to give me more money? Which school is just plain better? Which school would you pick if you were in my shoes?

I know I've asked these questions many times on TLS but I just can't seem to make a decision. With the deposit deadlines approaching I'm worried.

Please give me some input on this dilemma.

Thanks.

One of the best pieces of advice I've ever gotten in life is, when your head and your heart conflict, go with your heart. You'll be right more often than not. Your head rationalizes things. Your heart boils things down to lowest possible terms. You can do business with your head, so to speak, but your heart isn't so easily pacified. So follow your heart on this one, I would say.

[kartal]

This is an extremely difficult decision for me. my "heart" is leaning toward Pitt for some reason (i havent even visited the city/school yet) but still attracted to Nova for its decent private school prestige and biglaw prospects. the living cost is ridiculous at Nova. (i.e. Pitt's university owned graduate housing single bedroom including all utilities is $750ish while Nova's single bedroom apartments range from $1000 to $1100 without electricity). of course this is all excluding food costs, parking permits, etc. For me currently my tuition taking schollys into consideration is both 20k. The thing is for Pitt, I would qualify for in-state 2L and 3L; Nova will stay 20k. Also, I'm not sure how much financial aid i'll receive (assuming $5000 a year).

Apart from the COL, the prospect of getting a decent paying job ($70k+) is making my decision difficult.

Pitt seems to have the Pitt market on lockdown apart from the occasional t14. I know three biglaw firms stationed in Pitt (KL, Reed, JD). I assume if one can get a job from one of those firms it would be around $100k. and the $100k with little debt remaining after 3 years at Pitt makes it EXTREMELY attractive. However, I can't always expect the best scenario. How likely is it to achieve this? I've heard some biglaw firms don't hire from Pitt. Some say biglaw is almost improbable for Pitt.

Villanova seems to have a better prospect at biglaw. But like some TLS'ers said, several law schools compete for the Philly market - Temple, Penn (who remain in the area), PSU, and Drexel. But then again, the market is much larger than Pitt. If I were to go to Villanova, I'd have almost twice the debt I would have from Pitt. And looking at optimal results from both schools, I'll end up with around $100k salary (i said optimal, meaning me making top 10% of the class).

I'm still not sure which school to decide on. I will e-mail both Villanova and Pitt to 'squeeze' some more money out of each one. Should I just go to the school that is willing to give me more money? Which school is just plain better? Which school would you pick if you were in my shoes?

I know I've asked these questions many times on TLS but I just can't seem to make a decision. With the deposit deadlines approaching I'm worried.

Please give me some input on this dilemma.

Thanks.

Both of them are very good comparable schools.

- Villanova is a suburban school while Pitt is a city school. Do you want to go to law school in an urban area or suburban area?

- Villanova has a state-of-art brand new georgeous building while Pitt has a relatively old building. What would you prefer?

- Pitt has the lock in the Pittsburgh market while Philly has more competition (Temple, Rutgers-Camden, Penn and the other schools in the east corridor).

This is a tough decision. I would say "go and visit both schools and see where your heart goes". You cannot go wrong with either school. Believe me. If you were the PA resident, I would definitely say Pitt.

Good luck.

[stayway]

This is an extremely difficult decision for me. my "heart" is leaning toward Pitt for some reason (i havent even visited the city/school yet) but still attracted to Nova for its decent private school prestige and biglaw prospects. the living cost is ridiculous at Nova. (i.e. Pitt's university owned graduate housing single bedroom including all utilities is $750ish while Nova's single bedroom apartments range from $1000 to $1100 without electricity). of course this is all excluding food costs, parking permits, etc. For me currently my tuition taking schollys into consideration is both 20k. The thing is for Pitt, I would qualify for in-state 2L and 3L; Nova will stay 20k. Also, I'm not sure how much financial aid i'll receive (assuming $5000 a year).

Apart from the COL, the prospect of getting a decent paying job ($70k+) is making my decision difficult.

Pitt seems to have the Pitt market on lockdown apart from the occasional t14. I know three biglaw firms stationed in Pitt (KL, Reed, JD). I assume if one can get a job from one of those firms it would be around $100k. and the $100k with little debt remaining after 3 years at Pitt makes it EXTREMELY attractive. However, I can't always expect the best scenario. How likely is it to achieve this? I've heard some biglaw firms don't hire from Pitt. Some say biglaw is almost improbable for Pitt.

Villanova seems to have a better prospect at biglaw. But like some TLS'ers said, several law schools compete for the Philly market - Temple, Penn (who remain in the area), PSU, and Drexel. But then again, the market is much larger than Pitt. If I were to go to Villanova, I'd have almost twice the debt I would have from Pitt. And looking at optimal results from both schools, I'll end up with around $100k salary (i said optimal, meaning me making top 10% of the class).

I'm still not sure which school to decide on. I will e-mail both Villanova and Pitt to 'squeeze' some more money out of each one. Should I just go to the school that is willing to give me more money? Which school is just plain better? Which school would you pick if you were in my shoes?

I know I've asked these questions many times on TLS but I just can't seem to make a decision. With the deposit deadlines approaching I'm worried.

Please give me some input on this dilemma.

Thanks.

Both of them are very good comparable schools.

- Villanova is a suburban school while Pitt is a city school. Do you want to go to law school in an urban area or suburban area?

- Villanova has a state-of-art brand new georgeous building while Pitt has a relatively old building. What would you prefer?

- Pitt has the lock in the Pittsburgh market while Philly has more competition (Temple, Rutgers-Camden, Penn and the other schools in the east corridor).

This is a tough decision. I would say "go and visit both schools and see where your heart goes". You cannot go wrong with either school. Believe me. If you were the PA resident, I would definitely say Pitt.

Good luck.

Yeah I'm out of state. The in-state consideration is not guaranteed. Damn it.

[stayway]

sigh.

[mikeyp]

This is an extremely difficult decision for me. my "heart" is leaning toward Pitt for some reason (i havent even visited the city/school yet) but still attracted to Nova for its decent private school prestige and biglaw prospects. the living cost is ridiculous at Nova. (i.e. Pitt's university owned graduate housing single bedroom including all utilities is $750ish while Nova's single bedroom apartments range from $1000 to $1100 without electricity). of course this is all excluding food costs, parking permits, etc. For me currently my tuition taking schollys into consideration is both 20k. The thing is for Pitt, I would qualify for in-state 2L and 3L; Nova will stay 20k. Also, I'm not sure how much financial aid i'll receive (assuming $5000 a year).

WHAT?! That's wrong. I live in a single at Villanova and it costs $875, and that's a little high.

[stayway]

This is an extremely difficult decision for me. my "heart" is leaning toward Pitt for some reason (i havent even visited the city/school yet) but still attracted to Nova for its decent private school prestige and biglaw prospects. the living cost is ridiculous at Nova. (i.e. Pitt's university owned graduate housing single bedroom including all utilities is $750ish while Nova's single bedroom apartments range from $1000 to $1100 without electricity). of course this is all excluding food costs, parking permits, etc. For me currently my tuition taking schollys into consideration is both 20k. The thing is for Pitt, I would qualify for in-state 2L and 3L; Nova will stay 20k. Also, I'm not sure how much financial aid i'll receive (assuming $5000 a year).

WHAT?! That's wrong. I live in a single at Villanova and it costs $875, and that's a little high.

could you give me a link to that property's website if it exists? because if thats what it costs, I might seriously do Nova.

[mikeyp]

This is an extremely difficult decision for me. my "heart" is leaning toward Pitt for some reason (i havent even visited the city/school yet) but still attracted to Nova for its decent private school prestige and biglaw prospects. the living cost is ridiculous at Nova. (i.e. Pitt's university owned graduate housing single bedroom including all utilities is $750ish while Nova's single bedroom apartments range from $1000 to $1100 without electricity). of course this is all excluding food costs, parking permits, etc. For me currently my tuition taking schollys into consideration is both 20k. The thing is for Pitt, I would qualify for in-state 2L and 3L; Nova will stay 20k. Also, I'm not sure how much financial aid i'll receive (assuming $5000 a year).

WHAT?! That's wrong. I live in a single at Villanova and it costs $875, and that's a little high.

could you give me a link to that property's website if it exists? because if thats what it costs, I might seriously do Nova.

http://www.law.villanova.edu/Student%20 ... using.aspx go there

or direct link to pdf: http://www.law.villanova.edu/Student%20 ... earea.ashx

that document lists housing in the area, and even notes which ones are popular by law students. there's a LOT of information there, and you'll see that some places have prices are not NEARLY as high as you thought. i live in radnor house, for example, and pay $875 for a single. its the most popular spot for law students.

hope that helps

[stayway]

This is an extremely difficult decision for me. my "heart" is leaning toward Pitt for some reason (i havent even visited the city/school yet) but still attracted to Nova for its decent private school prestige and biglaw prospects. the living cost is ridiculous at Nova. (i.e. Pitt's university owned graduate housing single bedroom including all utilities is $750ish while Nova's single bedroom apartments range from $1000 to $1100 without electricity). of course this is all excluding food costs, parking permits, etc. For me currently my tuition taking schollys into consideration is both 20k. The thing is for Pitt, I would qualify for in-state 2L and 3L; Nova will stay 20k. Also, I'm not sure how much financial aid i'll receive (assuming $5000 a year).

WHAT?! That's wrong. I live in a single at Villanova and it costs $875, and that's a little high.

could you give me a link to that property's website if it exists? because if thats what it costs, I might seriously do Nova.

http://www.law.villanova.edu/Student%20 ... using.aspx go there

or direct link to pdf: http://www.law.villanova.edu/Student%20 ... earea.ashx

that document lists housing in the area, and even notes which ones are popular by law students. there's a LOT of information there, and you'll see the prices are NEARLY as high as you thought.

hope that helps

do law students able to park on campus? if so how much?

oh and yeah im comparing COL with Pitt at this point and its a little ridiculous. Maybe I need to find a roommate (i just dont want to risk getting a crazy one because law school is a big investment).

[jlnoa0915]

do law students able to park on campus? if so how much?

oh and yeah im comparing COL with Pitt at this point and its a little ridiculous. Maybe I need to find a roommate (i just dont want to risk getting a crazy one because law school is a big investment).

I just visited there, there is parking and a parking garage, though I do not remember the cost.

[mikeyp]

do law students able to park on campus? if so how much?

oh and yeah im comparing COL with Pitt at this point and its a little ridiculous. Maybe I need to find a roommate (i just dont want to risk getting a crazy one because law school is a big investment).

the law building is physically separated from the rest of the campus by railroad tracks, so undergrads have no reason to be on our side, hehe. there is a parking garage solely for law students literally 15 steps from the building. i'm not sure off the top of my head how much parking is, i think its like $150 for the year. the permit is valid for the rest of campus too, so for example if you want to go to the gym, you can park by the gym, etc.

my thought process was that i didn't want to move in with someone i didn't know, so i got a single. then once i make friends, next year i'll move in with someone else and save money. and that's exactly what i'm doing this summer...i'll be moving in with a friend in the same building.

honestly, you're investing a LOT of money, but mostly a LOT of time, regardless of where you go or the final price tag. you don't want to be stingy at this point because it will affect your law school experience, your grades, and thus your future. do what is most comfortable for YOU.

[stayway]

do law students able to park on campus? if so how much?

oh and yeah im comparing COL with Pitt at this point and its a little ridiculous. Maybe I need to find a roommate (i just dont want to risk getting a crazy one because law school is a big investment).

the law building is physically separated from the rest of the campus by railroad tracks, so undergrads have no reason to be on our side, hehe. there is a parking garage solely for law students literally 15 steps from the building. i'm not sure off the top of my head how much parking is, i think its like $150 for the year. the permit is valid for the rest of campus too, so for example if you want to go to the gym, you can park by the gym, etc.

my thought process was that i didn't want to move in with someone i didn't know, so i got a single. then once i make friends, next year i'll move in with someone else and save money. and that's exactly what i'm doing this summer...i'll be moving in with a friend in the same building.

honestly, you're investing a LOT of money, but mostly a LOT of time, regardless of where you go or the final price tag. you don't want to be stingy at this point because it will affect your law school experience, your grades, and thus your future. do what is most comfortable for YOU.

the last paragraph is a very good point. something my parents have told me too. do you know how well Villanova places in biglaw (i know official stats were 16.7% according to law.com), medium law? i plan on visiting both places next weekend so hopefully i can make up my mind.

[mikeyp]

do law students able to park on campus? if so how much?

oh and yeah im comparing COL with Pitt at this point and its a little ridiculous. Maybe I need to find a roommate (i just dont want to risk getting a crazy one because law school is a big investment).

the law building is physically separated from the rest of the campus by railroad tracks, so undergrads have no reason to be on our side, hehe. there is a parking garage solely for law students literally 15 steps from the building. i'm not sure off the top of my head how much parking is, i think its like $150 for the year. the permit is valid for the rest of campus too, so for example if you want to go to the gym, you can park by the gym, etc.

my thought process was that i didn't want to move in with someone i didn't know, so i got a single. then once i make friends, next year i'll move in with someone else and save money. and that's exactly what i'm doing this summer...i'll be moving in with a friend in the same building.

honestly, you're investing a LOT of money, but mostly a LOT of time, regardless of where you go or the final price tag. you don't want to be stingy at this point because it will affect your law school experience, your grades, and thus your future. do what is most comfortable for YOU.

the last paragraph is a very good point. something my parents have told me too. do you know how well Villanova places in biglaw (i know official stats were 16.7% according to law.com), medium law? i plan on visiting both places next weekend so hopefully i can make up my mind.

now i don't have any experience in that area as of yet, because i am but a lowly 1L. but i talked about this extensively with my advisor. in sum, you will be able to get a job in big law at the top 30% of villanova.

first, to set the context, TLS is very misleading in the job-finding arena. the general consensus here seems to think its T14 or bust, but this couldn't be further from the truth. quite a large amount of nova grads work for big law firms at graduation. granted, you have to have good grades (this is one arena TLS is not exaggerating). but the people who are having problems finding jobs are generally AT THE BOTTOM OF THE CLASS. think about it rationally...would an employer hire someone at the bottom 30% of the class? probably not. to expand further, would an employer take someone at the bottom 30% of the class when it could hire someone at a higher position? almost definitely not. the bottom line is do you work, be timely and efficient, and work hard. you will be rewarded.

that being said...my advisor graduated at the top of his class at yale law school, law review, the works. afterwards, he worked for one of the largest and most profitable firms in the nation. i won't say which because its irrelevant to the point i'm trying to make, but when i say "one of," i mean THE. needless to say, his advice is golden because he knows the field. but straight from his mouth, he said top 30% will make big law if that's what they want. naturally the lower end of that spectrum will have a more difficult time. also keep in mind that big law in philly is different from big law in ny, so it depends where you want to end up. (but nova does place in ny too, just not as much)

keep in mind the economy is going to affect everything. according to my advisor, the legal industry is going to change dramatically. so what happens at this point is anyone's guess, but there will still be jobs. the changes that will occur are not going to affect our future employment prospects as much as it will change the method through which they hire, things of that nature. i'm going to pm you with some information also that i do not want to share on here.

[superflush]

This is an extremely difficult decision for me. my "heart" is leaning toward Pitt for some reason (i havent even visited the city/school yet) but still attracted to Nova for its decent private school prestige and biglaw prospects. the living cost is ridiculous at Nova. (i.e. Pitt's university owned graduate housing single bedroom including all utilities is $750ish while Nova's single bedroom apartments range from $1000 to $1100 without electricity). of course this is all excluding food costs, parking permits, etc. For me currently my tuition taking schollys into consideration is both 20k. The thing is for Pitt, I would qualify for in-state 2L and 3L; Nova will stay 20k. Also, I'm not sure how much financial aid i'll receive (assuming $5000 a year).

WHAT?! That's wrong. I live in a single at Villanova and it costs $875, and that's a little high.

could you give me a link to that property's website if it exists? because if thats what it costs, I might seriously do Nova.

http://www.law.villanova.edu/Student%20 ... using.aspx go there

or direct link to pdf: http://www.law.villanova.edu/Student%20 ... earea.ashx

that document lists housing in the area, and even notes which ones are popular by law students. there's a LOT of information there, and you'll see that some places have prices are not NEARLY as high as you thought. i live in radnor house, for example, and pay $875 for a single. its the most popular spot for law students.

hope that helps

I echo what Mike says.
nooyyllib, I don't know if you know this or not, but the area around Villanova is perhaps the most expensive suburbs of Philadelphia. That doesn't mean that you won't be able to get reasonably priced housing (you should be able to) ... that just means that there will definitely be some places that are very expensive and/or targeted at people with a lot of money. If you look around, you should be able to find some reasonable places.

[seespotrun]

do law students able to park on campus? if so how much?

oh and yeah im comparing COL with Pitt at this point and its a little ridiculous. Maybe I need to find a roommate (i just dont want to risk getting a crazy one because law school is a big investment).

the law building is physically separated from the rest of the campus by railroad tracks, so undergrads have no reason to be on our side, hehe. there is a parking garage solely for law students literally 15 steps from the building. i'm not sure off the top of my head how much parking is, i think its like $150 for the year. the permit is valid for the rest of campus too, so for example if you want to go to the gym, you can park by the gym, etc.

my thought process was that i didn't want to move in with someone i didn't know, so i got a single. then once i make friends, next year i'll move in with someone else and save money. and that's exactly what i'm doing this summer...i'll be moving in with a friend in the same building.

honestly, you're investing a LOT of money, but mostly a LOT of time, regardless of where you go or the final price tag. you don't want to be stingy at this point because it will affect your law school experience, your grades, and thus your future. do what is most comfortable for YOU.

the last paragraph is a very good point. something my parents have told me too. do you know how well Villanova places in biglaw (i know official stats were 16.7% according to law.com), medium law? i plan on visiting both places next weekend so hopefully i can make up my mind.

now i don't have any experience in that area as of yet, because i am but a lowly 1L. but i talked about this extensively with my advisor. in sum, you will be able to get a job in big law at the top 30% of villanova.

first, to set the context, TLS is very misleading in the job-finding arena. the general consensus here seems to think its T14 or bust, but this couldn't be further from the truth. quite a large amount of nova grads work for big law firms at graduation. granted, you have to have good grades (this is one arena TLS is not exaggerating). but the people who are having problems finding jobs are generally AT THE BOTTOM OF THE CLASS. think about it rationally...would an employer hire someone at the bottom 30% of the class? probably not. to expand further, would an employer take someone at the bottom 30% of the class when it could hire someone at a higher position? almost definitely not. the bottom line is do you work, be timely and efficient, and work hard. you will be rewarded.

that being said...my advisor graduated at the top of his class at yale law school, law review, the works. afterwards, he worked for one of the largest and most profitable firms in the nation. i won't say which because its irrelevant to the point i'm trying to make, but when i say "one of," i mean THE. needless to say, his advice is golden because he knows the field. but straight from his mouth, he said top 30% will make big law if that's what they want. naturally the lower end of that spectrum will have a more difficult time. also keep in mind that big law in philly is different from big law in ny, so it depends where you want to end up. (but nova does place in ny too, just not as much)

keep in mind the economy is going to affect everything. according to my advisor, the legal industry is going to change dramatically. so what happens at this point is anyone's guess, but there will still be jobs. the changes that will occur are not going to affect our future employment prospects as much as it will change the method through which they hire, things of that nature. i'm going to pm you with some information also that i do not want to share on here.

30% is a highly inflated estimate, especially ITE.

[Scurredsitless1]

I think this decision will be easy for you once you visit the schools. Check out the cities, not just the areas immediately surrounding the schools. Philly and Pittsburgh are vastly different.

If the schools cost about the same, and the provide about the same opportunities; there is nothing else left to worry about. Check out the schools, one will fit you better than the other.

[stayway]

I think this decision will be easy for you once you visit the schools. Check out the cities, not just the areas immediately surrounding the schools. Philly and Pittsburgh are vastly different.

If the schools cost about the same, and the provide about the same opportunities; there is nothing else left to worry about. Check out the schools, one will fit you better than the other.

yeah but the problem is that I dont really have a preference where i live. I'm just really good at living anywhere and adapting to places. So even if I visit the two cities (which I plan on doing sometime next weekend), I might just confuse myself even more unless some crazy thing happens.

[mikeyp]

30% is a highly inflated estimate, especially ITE.

1. I will believe my advisor over someone on a forum.
2. I did say, "the economy is going to affect everything."

[jlnoa0915]

I think this decision will be easy for you once you visit the schools. Check out the cities, not just the areas immediately surrounding the schools. Philly and Pittsburgh are vastly different.

If the schools cost about the same, and the provide about the same opportunities; there is nothing else left to worry about. Check out the schools, one will fit you better than the other.

yeah but the problem is that I dont really have a preference where i live. I'm just really good at living anywhere and adapting to places. So even if I visit the two cities (which I plan on doing sometime next weekend), I might just confuse myself even more unless some crazy thing happens.

I have lived briefly in Philly, and currently live about 40 minutes away in NJ. And have been to Pitts numerous times. Although Pitt is a nice city and I like to visit, you cannot compare it to Philly in terms of things to do and the history (if your into that). Not to mention you have the intrinsic benefits of having the NJ shore an hour away, DC 3 hours away and NYC about 2 hours away. So personally, if the costs were the same and I didn't care about location I would choose a Philly school. HTH.

[stayway]

I think this decision will be easy for you once you visit the schools. Check out the cities, not just the areas immediately surrounding the schools. Philly and Pittsburgh are vastly different.

If the schools cost about the same, and the provide about the same opportunities; there is nothing else left to worry about. Check out the schools, one will fit you better than the other.

yeah but the problem is that I dont really have a preference where i live. I'm just really good at living anywhere and adapting to places. So even if I visit the two cities (which I plan on doing sometime next weekend), I might just confuse myself even more unless some crazy thing happens.

I have lived briefly in Philly, and currently live about 40 minutes away in NJ. And have been to Pitts numerous times. Although Pitt is a nice city and I like to visit, you cannot compare it to Philly in terms of things to do and the history (if your into that). Not to mention you have the intrinsic benefits of having the NJ shore an hour away, DC 3 hours away and NYC about 2 hours away. So personally, if the costs were the same and I didn't care about location I would choose a Philly school. HTH.

great point!

i've actually scoured the philly law firms' websites and search attorneys based on schools. Found TONS of Villanova alums at each law firm. And all those law firms were biglaw ($135k -ITE). I'm just waiting for Feona to e-mail me back.

[seespotrun]

30% is a highly inflated estimate, especially ITE.

1. I will believe my advisor over someone on a forum.
2. I did say, "the economy is going to affect everything."

Full disclosure: I'm also a 1L at VLS, so I have nothing to benefit from fear mongering. While I agree with you that TLS tends to exaggerate how doomed a student from a T2 is if he finished 1L outside of the top 10%, there is some merit to these generalizations. You are entitled to believe whomever you'd like. However, when giving advice to 0Ls, it's probably best to give conservative advice based on more concrete evidence than your advisor's opinion. According to the NLJ, 16.7% of the class of 2009 was hired by NLJ250 firms. This number is consistent with 2005 and 2006 numbers from the same report. (Can't find the links, but these charts and stats are posted often throughout TLS forums)

Regarding your professor's advice: He has a vested interest in keeping you at the school, he may be out of touch with respect to entry level hiring, and ignoring the NLJ info and TLS advice based on one person's opinion is just silly.

[FunkyJD]

30% is a highly inflated estimate, especially ITE.

1. I will believe my advisor over someone on a forum.
2. I did say, "the economy is going to affect everything."

Full disclosure: I'm also a 1L at VLS, so I have nothing to benefit from fear mongering. While I agree with you that TLS tends to exaggerate how doomed a student from a T2 is if he finished 1L outside of the top 10%, there is some merit to these generalizations. You are entitled to believe whomever you'd like. However, when giving advice to 0Ls, it's probably best to give conservative advice based on more concrete evidence than your advisor's opinion. According to the NLJ, 16.7% of the class of 2009 was hired by NLJ250 firms. This number is consistent with 2005 and 2006 numbers from the same report. (Can't find the links, but these charts and stats are posted often throughout TLS forums)

For reference, here's the 2009 chart in question:
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

[stayway]

oh dont worry, im not believing the 30% at all.

i saw the law.com link before so i look at the 16.7% more. So basically if I wanna do biglaw I have to be top 10-15% of the class.