Chicago, Cincinnati, or Philly? Forum

[bryanl87]

Hello!

I've been browsing this forum for some time now and first of all, I want to thank everyone here for many helpful posts that really assisted me with LSAT and applying to law schools.

With that, I apologize in advance if I posted a wrong topic on a wrong forum since this is my first post but I felt that this would be the best place for me to ask my question.

Here is my question:

I understand that right now job markets for legal professions look bleak everywhere, and that people are screwed if they don't get into T14, but unfortunately, according to those people, I am categorized as those "screwed" people because I am planning to attend non-T14 schools for the fall of 2010. Obviously, getting into non-T14 schools mean my job outlook will be very regional, and so I need help in choosing which city will be best for the future job outlook for non T-14 graduates.

So far, I got into Villanova, Penn State, Cincinnati, and IIT-Chicago Kent. Well, I got into South Carolina but I know I won't be attending the school (USC was my back-back-back-up school). After browsing the forum, I realized that people look favorably to Temple over Villanova despite the ranking differences, and I also heard from the forum that after T14, rankings don't matter much, so I applied to Temple also. Hopefully I'll get into Temple as well.

From my research, Chicago seems to be the best legal job market out there, but it is overly-saturated with NU and UChicago grads, and regional schools like Loyola, DePaul, and Kent is also fighting over the city. Cincinnati is basically the only school around the area, but I hear that Cincinnati city itself is declining. Finally, Philly seems to be a nice option since I hear that Villanova and Temple gets most of the jobs in Philly considering UPenn grads move up to NYC for jobs.

Oh, I also got 20k scholarship from Kent, and I hear that Cincinnati lets you get in-state easily if you move to KY or something like that.

I don't have preferences in where I want to spend rest of my life, but if I had to choose, I would pick Chicago, Philly, then Cinci; but from my standing, I feel like I don't have much luxury in choosing my law school by where I want to live, ha ha. Gotta feed the family first you know? I hate to be out of school with 100k debt with no job, but I know lawyer is for me so please no discouraging comments like... choose another profession. Thanks in advance.

[TTH]

What state do you live in?

Chicago has the best job outlook, but I would recommend Cincinnati over Chicago-Kent. Cincinnati places into a few different secondary markets (Cincy, Columbus, Indy, Louisville, Lexington, etc), and you can get in-state tuition your second year if you're not from Ohio.

[the lantern]

What state do you live in?

Chicago has the best job outlook, but I would recommend Cincinnati over Chicago-Kent. Cincinnati places into a few different secondary markets (Cincy, Columbus, Indy, Louisville, Lexington, etc), and you can get in-state tuition your second year if you're not from Ohio.

You can get in-state your first year at Cincy. Talk to the admissions office, but if you commute from Kentucky (not far at all), you qualify for in-state immediately.

[TTH]

I imagine it's only for certain counties in the Cincinnati metro area, right?

[bryanl87]

i live in VA haha and I applied to W&M for my reach but yeah I just read another post about rankings in Chicago market and... basically I don't think I'll be able to find a decent job if at all going to Kent considering the fact that I'll be competing with T14 grads...

What about Cincy vs. Villanova/Penn State/Temple (I applied little late so I haven't heard from them but if I do get in)?

Isn't upper Ohio area saturated with OSU/Case/Akron.. etc.?

About talking to the admissions office... can I really trust their word? I feel like they might sugar coat things a bit... just like how every law school say 90% of their grads get jobs within 9 months.

[MBZags]

Actually, I visited Cincinnati, and Dean Watson was very upfront with me about job prospects. He didn't try to sugar coat anything; he realizes that the market is pretty crappy. In fact, he even apologized to me a couple times for potentially scaring me out of going to law school right now. However, he firmly believed that at least the top 50% of the class had nothing to worry about in terms of job prospects. Much of the lower half of the class probably will find jobs, too, but obviously not as lucrative.

[bryanl87]

Thanks everyone for your help! I think it's obvious that Chicago is out of the question and Cincy looks more appealing (MBZags' post was extra helpful). Now, I know that Philly is very diverse city, how's Cincinnati? I heard something about race riot happening there in the past and that is a little concern for me now because I'm Asian.

[Doritos]

Thanks everyone for your help! I think it's obvious that Chicago is out of the question and Cincy looks more appealing (MBZags' post was extra helpful). Now, I know that Philly is very diverse city, how's Cincinnati? I heard something about race riot happening there in the past and that is a little concern for me now because I'm Asian.

The riot was about an unarmed black man getting shot to death in the back by a white police man. It was a one time thing. I'm from Columbus but know multiple people from Cincy and there's not like a race war waiting to happen there. Just know that UC is surrounded by the hood. People die. I had a friend who said she found a dead body on campus while walking to work one morning.

[the lantern]

A friend of mine had his car stolen out of his driveway while going to UC. Having said that, I did not feel unsafe in the area. I actually really liked UC, but I won't be going there because I don't want to live in the Ohio area.

[TTH]

They've cleaned up Clifton a lot the last few years, I think, but if you don't want to live close to campus, you can move somewhere like the Gaslight District and you'll be fine. I feel safe in just about any Cincinnati neighborhood, but if you're jumpy, just avoid Over The Rhine and some of the west side neighborhoods, and you'll be fine. Cincy is a charming town with a lot to offer.

[jeeptiger09]

UC isn't in a great place but you'll probably be commuting. I'd recommend Mount Adams or if you're living over the bridge, check out Newport. Cincinnati has a great reputation in the metro area, and the only other school that you could potentially be competing with jobs for is Ohio State (and a very very very small number of Chase grads that hack the Cincy market). As far as racial tensions, they're still there in Cincy, but it's typically black/white and it's in areas that are less desirable. I wouldn't worry about it too much. Just don't go to Over the Rhine and parts of Norwood.

Cincy isn't going to get you in good in Columbus (tOSU) or Cleveland (Case, Akron), and keep in mind that Ohio has the aforementioned schools plus Toledo, ONU, Cleveland State, Capital, and Dayton. While not all of them are great schools, there are a lot of law grads in Ohio.

With all that being said, I think Cincy is your best option. You can establish residency for cheaper tuition and you're not competing against T14. In Chicago at Kent, you're like 6/7th best (Chicago, Northwestern, Michigan, UIUC, ND, other Chicago schools). And in Philly at Temple, you're potentially competing against HYSCN, Penn, Nova, Penn State, etc.

[MC Southstar]

Thanks everyone for your help! I think it's obvious that Chicago is out of the question and Cincy looks more appealing (MBZags' post was extra helpful). Now, I know that Philly is very diverse city, how's Cincinnati? I heard something about race riot happening there in the past and that is a little concern for me now because I'm Asian.

There are no Asians in Ohio, Kentucky, or Indiana.

[superflush]

The riot was about an unarmed black man getting shot to death in the back by a white police man. It was a one time thing. I'm from Columbus but know multiple people from Cincy and there's not like a race war waiting to happen there. Just know that UC is surrounded by the hood. People die. I had a friend who said she found a dead body on campus while walking to work one morning.

Well, if you don't like this, then surely do not go to Temple.

[Tangerine Gleam]

Stay away from Cincinnati. Always.

[Matlock31]

Cincinnati - just don't go walking around by yourself at 3am in isolated areas. Be smart. It's no more dangerous than any other urban city (exception: over the rhine). It all depends where you're at. Most law students do not live in Clifton, and if so, it's the gaslight district.

[JohnBlaze]

The riot was about an unarmed black man getting shot to death in the back by a white police man. It was a one time thing. I'm from Columbus but know multiple people from Cincy and there's not like a race war waiting to happen there. Just know that UC is surrounded by the hood. People die. I had a friend who said she found a dead body on campus while walking to work one morning.

Well, if you don't like this, then surely do not go to Temple.

What is it with you and your Temple trolling? I mean, I'm no champion for the Temple cause or anything, but your ignorance is kind of annoying. I go to Temple. I work in the library until late at night, then walk through the scary scary darkness to the train station (right past the projects!) to the train station and go home. Never had a problem. Never felt unsafe. Never saw beady eyes staring at me through the shadows. Temple has a pretty safe campus. And your fear-mongering is surely a symptom of your douche-ness.

[KimmyGibbler]

The riot was about an unarmed black man getting shot to death in the back by a white police man. It was a one time thing. I'm from Columbus but know multiple people from Cincy and there's not like a race war waiting to happen there. Just know that UC is surrounded by the hood. People die. I had a friend who said she found a dead body on campus while walking to work one morning.

Well, if you don't like this, then surely do not go to Temple.

What is it with you and your Temple trolling? I mean, I'm no champion for the Temple cause or anything, but your ignorance is kind of annoying. I go to Temple. I work in the library until late at night, then walk through the scary scary darkness to the train station (right past the projects!) to the train station and go home. Never had a problem. Never felt unsafe. Never saw beady eyes staring at me through the shadows. Temple has a pretty safe campus. And your fear-mongering is surely a symptom of your douche-ness.

I agree. I live in North Phiily right now, less than a mile from Temple's campus. It is actually very easy to not get shot in the ghetto: don't wander around places you aren't supposed to be (which are not too hard spot), and don't treat anyone with disrespect. If you mind your own damn business, nobody will bother you.

[superflush]

Temple has a pretty safe campus.

Wow. I think the ignorance lies with you.

[KimmyGibbler]

Temple has a pretty safe campus.

Wow. I think the ignorance lies with you.

He goes to Temple. I live in Temple's neighborhood. We know what we are talking about; you don't.

[JohnBlaze]

Temple has a pretty safe campus.

Wow. I think the ignorance lies with you.

Ignorance
Noun
1. The lack of knowledge or education.
(Webster's)

Like I said before, I go to Temple. Therefore, I have knowledge of the campus and its immediate surroundings. I have had zero problems there at any time of day or night, nor has anyone else that I know. I normally wouldn't mind your drivel, but the people who come to TLS often don't have the time or means to obtain more reliable information. Your hilarity holds sway over those who are not able to inform themselves, and that makes you dangerous. Stop being ridiculous.

[superflush]

Look, people were talking about Cincinnati as being to dangerous and hood-like. My point was that if Cincinnati was bothering a given person, then surely Temple would bother them as well.
And you don't have to live right near Temple to know that it is dangerous. Almost everyone who grew up in the area or has visited Temple knows what it is like.

[JohnBlaze]

Look, people were talking about Cincinnati as being to dangerous and hood-like. My point was that if Cincinnati was bothering a given person, then surely Temple would bother them as well.
And you don't have to live right near Temple to know that it is dangerous. Almost everyone who grew up in the area or has visited Temple knows what it is like.

Right. But I have read a series of posts that you have authored (in this thread and others) making broad and sensational generalizations about Temple. Like I said, I don't care if Temple is too "urban" for you. To each his own. But be a little more responsible when you are passing that on to others who might be blindly influenced by your opinion.

Temple has the third largest police force in the state of PA. You can look at that two ways: 1) Temple must be pretty scary to need all of those cops, or 2) Temple makes a significant effort to keep riff raff away from the school. Maybe it's a little bit of both. But Temple is by no means a war zone, and you don't have to dodge "gang-bangers and crackheads as you walk by the projects" like you have asserted in other posts. North Broad is not the Main Line. But it isn't Beirut, either.

[superflush]

Temple has the third largest police force in the state of PA. You can look at that two ways: 1) Temple must be pretty scary to need all of those cops, or 2) Temple makes a significant effort to keep riff raff away from the school. Maybe it's a little bit of both. But Temple is by no means a war zone, and you don't have to dodge "gang-bangers and crackheads as you walk by the projects" like you have asserted in other posts. North Broad is not the Main Line. But it isn't Beirut, either.

A large police force doesn't impress me. The fact of the matter is that Philadelphia is the most dangerous city of 1million+ people, and that North Philly is one of the more dangerous parts of Philly. Most people on these forums don't come from crime-stricken areas and they deserve to have a good understanding of what an area is like

[KimmyGibbler]

Temple has the third largest police force in the state of PA. You can look at that two ways: 1) Temple must be pretty scary to need all of those cops, or 2) Temple makes a significant effort to keep riff raff away from the school. Maybe it's a little bit of both. But Temple is by no means a war zone, and you don't have to dodge "gang-bangers and crackheads as you walk by the projects" like you have asserted in other posts. North Broad is not the Main Line. But it isn't Beirut, either.

A large police force doesn't impress me. The fact of the matter is that Philadelphia is the most dangerous city of 1million+ people, and that North Philly is one of the more dangerous parts of Philly. Most people on these forums don't come from crime-stricken areas and they deserve to have a good understanding of what an area is like

People who can't handle the city and want to be in the Philly area should go to Villanova; but be warned that Villanova is full of the types of people who are afraid of cities yet still think they are tough shit

[superflush]

People who can't handle the city and want to be in the Philly area should go to Villanova; but be warned that Villanova is full of the types of people who are afraid of cities yet still think they are tough shit

Can't argue with that.