Vanderbilt vs. Notre Dame Forum

[ArtVandelay]

For Biglaw, no location preference. Ignore money/COL. Please explain your answer.

[reebtoor]

Nationally, I think Notre Dame might place a little better. However, Notre Dame's main presence, in Biglaw, is in Chicago, and there is a much stronger presence of top schools in the area than in the South, where Vanderbilt is kind of the biggest show in town. If you don't care where, I think Vanderbilt in the South is better than Notre Dame in Chicago.

[ArtVandelay]

Nationally, I think Notre Dame might place a little better nationally. However, Notre Dame's main presence, in Biglaw, is in Chicago, and there is a much stronger presence of top schools in the area than in the South, where Vanderbilt is kind of the biggest show in town. If you don't care where, I think Vanderbilt in the South is better than Notre Dame in Chicago.

That makes sense. So you're saying for a neutral place like Boston, Notre Dame would have a slight edge?

[reebtoor]

I'm no expert, but I would definitely think so. Every school claims to have a strong alumni network, but Notre Dame really does. They place well nationally, although not always in Biglaw. There also seem to be a lot of people that transfer from BC or BU to ND, and vice versa.

[chadwick218]

If $ is the same, attend Vandy unless you have strong ties to the Irish.

[jcunni5]

vandy is better in everyway and much more national than nd, the only place where nd might be stronger is chi and ite they are not even strong there... if you want big law then vandy is the far better choice
/thread

[najumobi]

vandy is better in everyway and much more national than nd, the only place where nd might be stronger is chi and ite they are not even strong there... if you want big law then vandy is the far better choice
/thread

even for federal clerkships?

[ArtVandelay]

vandy is better in everyway and much more national than nd, the only place where nd might be stronger is chi and ite they are not even strong there... if you want big law then vandy is the far better choice
/thread

Mind providing any sort of stats or source?

[wadeny]

Eh, I would go with Vandy, but neither school is probably going to give you great odds for Big Law in this economy. ND has the reputation for having an excellent alumni network, but I agree with what reebtoor said - Chicago is going to be tough (with competition from NU, UChicago, etc), while Vandy is near more secondary markets with opportunities in the South.

Also, you said money isn't a consideration, but I think you should weigh that pretty heavily here. Chances are, if you can get into Vandy, ND should be providing some $$. If that is the case, I would take the money and run.

[wired]

vandy is better in everyway and much more national than nd, the only place where nd might be stronger is chi and ite they are not even strong there... if you want big law then vandy is the far better choice
/thread

even for federal clerkships?

I would say especially for federal clerkships. Vandy has really good clerkship placement for its rank and even manages to break into the DC Circuit year to year. When speaking with the admissions officer, I think something like 12-15 of their students received federal clerkships. With a class their size, that is impeccable. (Well, not as much when you consider Yale and Stanford... but still, for its rank.)

[flcath]

I'm in a very similar boat but for me it's not an even-money thing. I actually don't understand how it became an even-money thing for you...

Go with Vandy, though, especially if you're okay with living in the South. It's Biglaw placement has historically been significantly better, and though those stats are laughably outdated (and optimistic), there's no reason to think that ND and Vandy's placement have changed relative to one another.

The more misleading thing is portability of the degree. I feel strongly that these are the two most nationally portable degrees outside of the T14, and I think Vandy beats ND on that count as well. Raw "where do they work/take the bar" data will suggest that ND has more portability than Vandy (and like half of the T14), but this is a much better study (it should work fine for comparing ND and Vandy, but do not use it for comparing LSs of vastly disparate enrollment sizes, 'cause it has a built-in bias towards large schools) that takes into account the quality of the employment (though this too is deeply flawed: look at the NY firms vice the, say, Milwaukee firms).

Edit: I think they're a wash for landing a federal clerkship, though. ND still has phenomenal clerkship figures (better than Cornell by a wide margin), and has sustained them for long enough to suggest that it's not a fluke. Also, though SCOTUS success stories are by nature anecdotal, there is more often than not an ND grad on the high court. The only reason I say they're a wash is because I *do* feel that Vandy is a level above ND generally; I can't support that w/ data.

[Helmholtz]

For Biglaw, no location preference. Ignore money/COL. Please explain your answer.

Vanderbilt, no question. It always performs better in biglaw placement than ND.

[im_blue]

Vanderbilt > Notre Dame for biglaw, especially with Notre Dame getting pwned in Chicago ITE.

[flcath]

Vanderbilt > Notre Dame for biglaw, especially with Notre Dame getting pwned in Chicago ITE.

ND has supposedly (word of mouth) still been placing in midwestern secondary markets alright, but I'd much rather be feeding into Atlanta right now... and that has more to do with the cities than the schools.

I would take Vandy over GULC at even money, btw (and was prepared to actually do so).

I really regret not applying to UTexas, btw, which may be the best option yet...

[im_blue]

Vanderbilt > Notre Dame for biglaw, especially with Notre Dame getting pwned in Chicago ITE.

ND has supposedly (word of mouth) still been placing in midwestern secondary markets alright, but I'd much rather be feeding into Atlanta right now... and that has more to do with the cities than the schools.

I would take Vandy over GULC at even money, btw (and was prepared to actually do so).

I really regret not applying to UTexas, btw, which may be the best option yet...

It's not too late to apply to Texas if you still want to.

[flcath]

Vanderbilt > Notre Dame for biglaw, especially with Notre Dame getting pwned in Chicago ITE.

ND has supposedly (word of mouth) still been placing in midwestern secondary markets alright, but I'd much rather be feeding into Atlanta right now... and that has more to do with the cities than the schools.

I would take Vandy over GULC at even money, btw (and was prepared to actually do so).

I really regret not applying to UTexas, btw, which may be the best option yet...

It's not too late to apply to Texas if you still want to.

For me it is. Might be good advice for you though.

Texas avoided ITE entirely by switching back to Confederate money in 4th-quarter 2008.