164/4.0 Help Choosing A Law School Forum

[upalittletoolate]

To be perfectly honest, law was not in my sights till about a year ago. Originally from Baton Rouge, I attended undergrad in Tennessee and am set to graduate in May 2010. I took the LSAT on sort of a whim (I found out LSU offered a great price to instate students and had a low median LSAT score). Anyways, my focus for most of my life this far has been social work--and I want to spend the majority of my future helping those in poverty. I feel like a law degree would assist in several parts of that dream, but I'm a little unsure as to how the numbers for this work. 40k total for a law degree seems rather reasonable- and does anyone know if I would be in line for any scholarships from a state school like LSU?

Additionally, would applying somewhere out of state be wise? I have no debt from undergrad, if that plays into the decision at all. I imagine a program that works with impoverished families during the course of my education would be closest to my alley, but I'm unsure if there is a branch of law that deals with that sort of thing.

My apologies too if I've posted in the wrong part of these boards- like I said, I'm rather new at all of this.
Thanks in advance for any help you guys can give!

[amputatedbrain]

If no one has given you these links yet, here they are:

http://www.lawschoolpredictor.com/wp-co ... ograms.htm
http://www.hourumd.com/

that will give you a generalized ballpark view of the schools you should be looking at. You have a great shot at schools ranked 15-30. Lower end of the T-14 is a long-shot, but worth applying to in my opinion (others on TLS will disagree).

PS: you did post in the wrong forum . . . there is a "What are my chances?" section it should have gone in . . . no harm no foul

[upalittletoolate]

Thanks! For the links and the advice- I'll definitely look into them. Out of curiosity (before I go visit those guys in the What are my Chances area), what would be some good names to look into in terms of working with the poverty stricken, both in the US and abroad? Additionally, should I look into, say, Tulane as another in state option?

Thanks again for the reply!

[driveshaft]

If you're happy with LSU, that's great. However, I feel like this thread feels empty without the following obligatory TLS advice: If you took the LSAT on a whim and managed a 164 and are smart/hard working enough to get a 4.0, you might consider studying seriously for the LSAT, retaking it, and applying next fall instead of this year. If you bumped your LSAT up by just 5 or 6 points (and depending on how much you already studied for this one, you could see a much bigger jump than that, like 10+ points), the difference in schools you'd be looking at would be huge. HUGE.

[upalittletoolate]

If you're happy with LSU, that's great. However, I feel like this thread feels empty without the following obligatory TLS advice: If you took the LSAT on a whim and managed a 164 and are smart/hard working enough to get a 4.0, you might consider studying seriously for the LSAT, retaking it, and applying next fall instead of this year. If you bumped your LSAT up by just 5 or 6 points (and depending on how much you already studied for this one, you could see a much bigger jump than that, like 10+ points), the difference in schools you'd be looking at would be huge. HUGE.

I've really thought hard about this one. I love the idea of bumping my LSAT score and attending a T14, but going into that much debt without a dedication deep enough to work 60+ hours a week does not appeal to me at all. That said, I do have the option to complete a Masters at my current undergrad in the year following graduation. I kept a log- I studied close to 10 hours for this LSAT and did a full practice test about 2 weeks before. Would the smart move be to study during the fall semester and retake in the summer? I could complete the Master's program next year, have my applications in by December, and then perhaps attend in the fall of 2011.

I really do appreciate all of the advice. Got to say I love the community here so far!

[bighead715]

164, 3.98 - i got into michigan...

[upalittletoolate]

164, 3.98 - i got into michigan...

That's awesome! If you don't mind my asking, was there any scholarship money involved?

[bighead715]

haha most people havent seen any scholarship info from mich yet, but i highly doubt theyll be throwing $$ my way

/pray

[upalittletoolate]

haha most people havent seen any scholarship info from mich yet, but i highly doubt theyll be throwing $$ my way

/pray

Gotcha- hope springs eternal though! Just an additional thought- does anyone know if my GPA during a masters program would hurt my chances in applying to law schools a year out of undergrad?

[upalittletoolate]

Bump

[JMBrown32]

Honestly, if you're not interested in BigLaw and the hours associated with it, I see no added value in skipping this cycle and waiting till next fall. $150K+ is a huge debt load to pay off when you're doing work for the poor (very commendable career choice, just not conducive to paying off over a hundred thousand dollars in student loans). If you like LSU, go there. If not, there are some lower first tier schools that would probably give you some money to keep the cost of attendance down.

[GeePee]

If you can study and get to 172/4.0 you're probably in the realm of either a large scholarship to mid-t14 or a chance at HLS... I wouldn't be worried about the debt in that case.

[beesknees]

.

[upalittletoolate]

Honestly, if you're not interested in BigLaw and the hours associated with it, I see no added value in skipping this cycle and waiting till next fall. $150K+ is a huge debt load to pay off when you're doing work for the poor (very commendable career choice, just not conducive to paying off over a hundred thousand dollars in student loans). If you like LSU, go there.

I think we've ignored OPs original post about the type of work she ultimately wants to end up in - which is not big law at all. OP: if you want to do PI-type work and want to stay in Louisiana, I think LSU at low cost is a fine choice. It sounds like the OP is concerned about debt. A T14 would definitely result in a ton of debt, unless he or she retook and got a 170+ to get her into good scholarship range.

But as usual on TLS, the automated response is get your butt in a T14 seat with a small scholly and large debt or pull HYS with massive debt because you can get a biglaw job.

Thanks to both of you for that- I think you've really hit what I'm aiming for. BigLaw has never been my aim, and as far as location goes, I feel like I can do a lot of good in my state. All that remains I guess is to see if LSU offers any money. I asked it elsewhere on these boards, but does anyone know if state schools hesitate to give scholarships to those already getting the instate discount?

[beesknees]

.

[upalittletoolate]

I've seen no evidence that they hold off on merit aid to instate people. Good luck! I think you should get some nice $ from LSU! According to LSN, someone with your exact #s last year got $70k over 3 years (out of state, tho) and someone with a lower GPA, same LSAT got $30k aid and he was instate). Looks good for you!

That's awesome! I had read that LSU had increased their overall Scholarship funds, but thanks a million for finding the specific ones- really sets my mind at ease. I checked LSN myself, but I can't seem to see the scholarships those with similar numbers received. Is there a specific site that lists money issues? Thanks again!

[upalittletoolate]

bump

[JMBrown32]

If you want to stay in the south and are looking for some money, I'd send an app bama's way. They have a pretty strong reputation in the south and give out a ton of money.

[FlightoftheEarls]

I think we've ignored OPs original post about the type of work she ultimately wants to end up in - which is not big law at all. OP: if you want to do PI-type work and want to stay in Louisiana, I think LSU at low cost is a fine choice. It sounds like the OP is concerned about debt. A T14 would definitely result in a ton of debt, unless he or she retook and got a 170+ to get her into good scholarship range.

But as usual on TLS, the automated response is get your butt in a T14 seat with a small scholly and large debt or pull HYS with massive debt because you can get a biglaw job.

The type of public interest work that one can get into from a T-14 is pretty different from what OP may get into from LSU. While LSU is a great school and he'll be able to do social work upon graduation, if OP has any aspirations for working with larger-scale NGOs or having a better chance at getting into doing social policy on a more macro level, he would have a better shot at reaching those goals by seriously studying for the LSAT and hitting that 170+ point. A 164 diagnostic is a fantastic start, but don't forget that most of these T-14s are able to attract this type of PI-centered student not only because of their exit options, but also because they offer excellent LRAP programs that encourage public interest work by allowing much of the debt to be almost completely mitigated upon graduation. The amount OP ends up making, if he goes from either LSU or a T-14, will probably be pretty comparable with the LRAP in place, the only difference may be in the quality of the job and the degree he'll carry with him.

The T-14 isn't right for everybody, but going to a T-14 over a local school does not mean you're hunting for biglaw. I have a large number of friends who have no interest in biglaw, but are not concerned because they are covered by a well-structured LRAP program. If OP isn't convinced he wants to stay in LA (which, since he's asking about applying out of state, it seems he may not be), then he should consider a retake with that fantastic GPA. The LSAT and studying for it, in so many ways, is an investment of time and work into yourself. The payoff of just a few points can be enormous, often worth tens of thousands of dollars. If you're content with LSU and staying in LA, go there. But don't feel like the T-14 is only for biglaw - the degree will last you for the rest of your life, as well as the options and connections. If there's doubt in your mind, it's worth at least making the investment in yourself by studying for the score and seeing where you can get into. If LSU is right for you in the end, awesome. But you may be kicking yourself if you find yourself wondering "What if?" a year or two down the road.

Just something to consider. Best of luck in your decision!

[underdawg]

retake retake retake

if you really want to help the poor then yeah, don't pay up the ass to go to the best school you get into (though look into the LRAP at those schools of course). but suppose you get a 174 (just sayin'), you probably have a full ride at northwestern, and a full ride or close to it for several other schools, perhaps UVA and Duke, if you want to stay in the south. maybe LSU invents a new scholarship to get you to come (full ride + a dozen blowjobs, iuno).

i haven't really read this thread, i'll admit, but people are retarded sometimes in saying that "not everyone is a prestige whore, no need to retake." if there is a significant chance that you might improve your score quite a bit (which is true for you, mr. lsat-on-a-whim), always always retake. more schools are open to you and more money at schools too. and even with non-biglaw dreams, the name on your diploma still matters. if you have the loozeanna connections on your resume, no place is going to take an equal LSU grad over an equal Duke/UVA grad (or even a *gasp* northern T14 grad although who fucking knows with the south?)

also wait out this economy for another year if you can

retake

[Doritos]

(full ride + a dozen blowjobs, iuno).

This alone is worth a retake

[Grizz]

If you want to stay in the south and are looking for some money, I'd send an app bama's way. They have a pretty strong reputation in the south and give out a ton of money.

They're ranked well, but I still wouldn't apply unless I was planning on staying in Alabama.

[lawhawk]

with a 169-170 and 4.0 you could go texas or vandy and stay in the louisiana region (western Southeast).

but if i were you I would go to LSU, Arkansas, Ole Miss, or Tulane for cheap and be very content.

[Grizz]

With those numbers alone, you have a really good shot at a bunch of school in the area. If you're looking to stay in Louisiana, you would almost definitely get into Tulane, and I guess you'd have a good shot at some money, considering you're above their 75th%tile LSAT and GPA (163/3.76). LSU would almost definitely throw money your way.

I would probably not go to Arkansas or Ole Miss unless I wanted to practice in those states. Those degrees are not very portable. If you know where you want to end up after graduation, this decision will be a lot easier.

[underdawg]

^

all dummies

unless you have the LSAT to get a full ride at a Texas caliber school, you need to retake when you can obviously do so much better. not doing so will be the BIGGEST MISTAKE OF YOUR LIFE

dun dun dun