Take the money and Run; YS - CCNH? Forum

[emu42]

i love the mentality here: you probably won't succeed, so don't even try. maybe that's a good mentality for desert fox, and maybe it's a good mentality when failing means you have no job. it's not like that at harvard. when you fail and miss that academia position, uh oh, guess i'll do biglaw. but i get a much better crack at a great clerkship first. but i get a much better crack at academia first (even if it's small). and when i've paid back my 100k loans i'll have the harvard name helping me with employment until i retire.

you virtually need to fail every class at harvard to not get biglaw

harvard>all>northwestern

[SnakySalmon]

Being from an already wealthy family with fantastic connections also helps, I presume.

good. you're getting the larger point.

I thought that the larger point what that HLS students were ubermensches who wander around raising millions of dollars on the strength of the school name alone, not that they're already rich so fuck it.

what's with this obsession with raising millions in venture capital? you don't need to raise millions to be an entrepreneur, and yes you can raise money on school name alone (of course, they need to believe in your product). there was this start-up dude who's executive summary revolved around the fact that he dropped out of princeton (well, it didn't revolve around it, but it featured prominently).

Then what the fuck was the larger point that he was getting at by saying that Harvard students being rich helped? I don't even know what you're arguing for anymore

[dresden doll]

you virtually need to fail every class at harvard to not get biglaw

It's tragic how misguided you are.

[emu42]

you virtually need to fail every class at harvard to not get biglaw

It's tragic how misguided you are.

what is incorrect about that statement? the bottom of the harvard class gets biglaw

[emu42]

you virtually need to fail every class at harvard to not get biglaw

It's tragic how misguided you are.

what is incorrect about that statement? the bottom of the harvard class gets biglaw

also note it's actually impossible to fail classes at harvard. so you can effectively finish at the bottom of your class in every course (and get a bunch of P's as a result) and get biglaw

[SnakySalmon]

you virtually need to fail every class at harvard to not get biglaw

It's tragic how misguided you are.

what is incorrect about that statement? the bottom of the harvard class gets biglaw

You realize that grades below LP are really rare at Harvard, and can get you kicked out, right? You won't get a job at all if you're not in good academic standing.

[SnakySalmon]

you virtually need to fail every class at harvard to not get biglaw

It's tragic how misguided you are.

what is incorrect about that statement? the bottom of the harvard class gets biglaw

also note it's actually impossible to fail classes at harvard. so you can effectively finish at the bottom of your class in every course (and get a bunch of P's as a result) and get biglaw

Yeah you can, F is in their official grade scale.

[worldtraveler]

You can fail to get a job if you're a complete weirdo though.

[bk1]

This thread is the worst.

[emu42]

You realize that grades below LP are really rare at Harvard, and can get you kicked out, right? You won't get a job at all if you're not in good academic standing.

that's exactly my point. no one gets LP's, let alone F's. You finish at the bottom of your class (effectively failing) and you still get a P, and still get biglaw

[dresden doll]

This thread has definitely delivered.

It's unfortunate that most of the conversation has been focused on Haaaahvahd, by far the TTT of HYS, though. The real issue is convincing all the snowflakes who get into Yale that their dreams are not worth $300k. I've found that a much harder conversation, esp because they are all PI save-the-world-types (at least they all think they are, anyway). As a rational person who just wants a six-figure salary I haven't had any personal experience with what happens to PI people at CCN and so don't know what to tell them.

Yale is a tougher conversation because it seems like a much higher percentage do actually get those unicorny jobs. The fact that they're unicorny, though, makes it much tougher to measure and thus get a good idea of likelihoods. Harvard, otoh, is an easier target bc it's significantly more of a biglaw factory.

Yale and Harvard grads are at a distinct advantage for Skadden fellowships, which are an important entryway into unicorny PI jobs. But as someone who has a non-trivial amount of knowledge in re: what happens to PI people at CCN (including the ones who wanted the unicorn PI jobs), I'm pretty damn sure that refusing a full ride in favor of HYS isn't particularly rational.

Just check out NYU's page. There's a direct fellowship to the ACLU, among other things. A hell of a better idea than going to HLS hoping you'll land Skadden so that ACLU can find your resume attractive sometime down the road, all to the tune of 300k.

[dresden doll]

You realize that grades below LP are really rare at Harvard, and can get you kicked out, right? You won't get a job at all if you're not in good academic standing.

that's exactly my point. no one gets LP's, let alone F's. You finish at the bottom of your class (effectively failing) and you still get a P, and still get biglaw

People at the bottom of CCN get biglaw, too. I really don't get why HLS people are running around pretending like you need to rock your grades oh so much more out of CCN in order to get the same biglaw outcome that would be available to you at HLS.

[jbagelboy]

You realize that grades below LP are really rare at Harvard, and can get you kicked out, right? You won't get a job at all if you're not in good academic standing.

that's exactly my point. no one gets LP's, let alone F's. You finish at the bottom of your class (effectively failing) and you still get a P, and still get biglaw

I know you're just trolling at this point, but if there's some rational part of you left and you actually are planning on attending, there are strike-outs from H and people that struggle to get biglaw jobs. If you hit all P's or an LP you could very easily strike out if you don't bid conservatively enough. Moreover, aspies with social dysfunction, comparable to many of the less amiable, awkward traits you've shown on this board, will routinely strike out at any school including Harvard. Watch your back, you're already starting out a step behind.

[rayiner]

i love the mentality here: you probably won't succeed, so don't even try. maybe that's a good mentality for desert fox, and maybe it's a good mentality when failing means you have no job. it's not like that at harvard. when you fail and miss that academia position, uh oh, guess i'll do biglaw. but i get a much better crack at a great clerkship first. but i get a much better crack at academia first (even if it's small). and when i've paid back my 100k loans i'll have the harvard name helping me with employment until i retire.

you virtually need to fail every class at harvard to not get biglaw

harvard>all>northwestern

I don't think I've met a more miserable group of people than those aspiring academics who failed into big law as a fallback position. Big law is absolutely soul-crushing for genuinely academic types. It's not a good fallback option for that kind of personality.

If you really want to be an academic, get a PhD first, because in today's intensely competitive academic hiring market, that's what stands out. But if you really wanted to be an academic, you'd know that. Most 0L's with vague aspirations of academia have no idea what it entails, and don't know how to best position themselves to get it.

It's not stupid to make a $100k bet on something specific that HYS gives you a big leg up on. If you really want to work at WLRK for example or clerk for SCOTUS or be an appellate lawyer, and that's your true heart's desire, it can make sense. What's stupid is spending a bunch of money because you have this vague idea that there are unicorn jobs you might potentially want to do (mostly because you've heard they're prestigious).

[09042014]

PI isn't unicorn and it's not that great. OOoooooh, you make 55k in MFH. Nobody is jealous of that.

It's definitely a case where debt doesn't matter. But the debt wouldn't matter at any law school if you are 1000% PI focused (as in you'd rather not work than work private sector).

Does anyone have a list of jobs that an average YHS can get but a T14 grad has no chance? No because it doesn't exist.

There are some extremely elite jobs that YHS gives you a leg up, but the average YHS isn't competitive for those things either. Things like Feeder clerks, SCOTUS Clerking, elite boutiques.

[dresden doll]

i love the mentality here: you probably won't succeed, so don't even try. maybe that's a good mentality for desert fox, and maybe it's a good mentality when failing means you have no job. it's not like that at harvard. when you fail and miss that academia position, uh oh, guess i'll do biglaw. but i get a much better crack at a great clerkship first. but i get a much better crack at academia first (even if it's small). and when i've paid back my 100k loans i'll have the harvard name helping me with employment until i retire.

you virtually need to fail every class at harvard to not get biglaw

harvard>all>northwestern

I don't think I've met a more miserable group of people than those aspiring academics who failed into big law as a fallback position. Big law is absolutely soul-crushing for genuinely academic types. It's not a good fallback option for that kind of personality.

If you really want to be an academic, get a PhD first, because in today's intensely competitive academic hiring market, that's what stands out. But if you really wanted to be an academic, you'd know that. Most 0L's with vague aspirations of academia have no idea what it entails, and don't know how to best position themselves to get it.

Academia is where I write smart stuff for other people to salivate over, right?

[cotiger]

i love the mentality here: you probably won't succeed, so don't even try. maybe that's a good mentality for desert fox, and maybe it's a good mentality when failing means you have no job. it's not like that at harvard. when you fail and miss that academia position, uh oh, guess i'll do biglaw. but i get a much better crack at a great clerkship first. but i get a much better crack at academia first (even if it's small). and when i've paid back my 100k loans i'll have the harvard name helping me with employment until i retire.

harvard>all>northwestern

Emu, I'd like to point out that you are essentially taking the money and running, as the thread title suggests. 100k in debt isn't particularly different from what someone with a full-ride at NYU will come out with. The point of this thread is that you shouldn't go into 300k debt when you have the option of only being 100k in debt, not that going to H with 100k debt is a stupid decision.

[dresden doll]

PI isn't unicorn and it's not that great. OOoooooh, you make 55k in MFH. Nobody is jealous of that.

It's definitely a case where debt doesn't matter. But the debt wouldn't matter at any law school if you are 1000% PI focused (as in you'd rather not work than work private sector).

Does anyone have a list of jobs that an average YHS can get but an average T14 grad has no chance? No because it doesn't exist.

There are some extremely elite jobs that YHS gives you a leg up, but the average YHS isn't competitive for those things either. Things like Feeder clerks, SCOTUS Clerking, elite boutiques.

I'm not talking all of PI, obviously. Direct service provider/ADA/PD work and the like isn't unicorn at all.

[Blessedassurance]

You didn't respond to my other point. Tech startups might not be the whole field of entrepreneurship, but they're what's hot right now, and they're the area where all the money is being handed out. Money in other sectors is pretty tight. That's why folks from GSB/HBS are flocking into that space right now. So why shouldn't I take the dearth of law graduates in that space as an indicator of the presence of law graduates in entrepreneurship as whole?

first, what makes you think money in other sectors is pretty tight? second, it is more risk-adverse to go straight into a start-up/entrepreneurship, as opposed to starting in law.

if all one needs is a job in start-ups, there are literally like 10 start-ups at this very moment that are hiring harvard grads (there's one company offering the possibility of equity right now. funnily enough, the start up's idea is aimed at cutting biglaw rates and setting price competition among legal vendors. just lol).

[Blessedassurance]

I don't see a huge difference in what students do when they graduate from these three schools (regardless of the companies they ran as law students). and I'm not some 0L. on the margins, there are some very impressive students at HLS who get jobs that would be tougher to crack from CC, but this "all the underemployed harvard kids are actually just entrepreneurs " shtick is pretty unconvincing. you've been spending too much time with the cso?

i've never met my school's cso or even know where their office is. why don't you spend some more time with the data you provided? where do you even go...chicago or columbia?

[Blessedassurance]

funny nearly 1/3 of my SA office this summer are harvard kiddos

are we supposed to be impressed? are you excited? do you have your own office? some v10's in new york make their first years share offices. can you believe that? do you have fun activities planned for the summer?

[SnakySalmon]

funny nearly 1/3 of my SA office this summer are harvard kiddos

are we supposed to be impressed? are you excited? do you have your own office? some v10's in new york make their first years share offices. can you believe that? do you have fun activities planned for the summer?

Are you actually unable to understand Bagel's point, or are you being willfully obtuse?

[emu42]

You realize that grades below LP are really rare at Harvard, and can get you kicked out, right? You won't get a job at all if you're not in good academic standing.

that's exactly my point. no one gets LP's, let alone F's. You finish at the bottom of your class (effectively failing) and you still get a P, and still get biglaw

People at the bottom of CCN get biglaw, too. I really don't get why HLS people are running around pretending like you need to rock your grades oh so much more out of CCN in order to get the same biglaw outcome that would be available to you at HLS.

i never said this, and don't think any other hls person said this

[emu42]

You realize that grades below LP are really rare at Harvard, and can get you kicked out, right? You won't get a job at all if you're not in good academic standing.

that's exactly my point. no one gets LP's, let alone F's. You finish at the bottom of your class (effectively failing) and you still get a P, and still get biglaw

I know you're just trolling at this point, but if there's some rational part of you left and you actually are planning on attending, there are strike-outs from H and people that struggle to get biglaw jobs. If you hit all P's or an LP you could very easily strike out if you don't bid conservatively enough. Moreover, aspies with social dysfunction, comparable to many of the less amiable, awkward traits you've shown on this board, will routinely strike out at any school including Harvard. Watch your back, you're already starting out a step behind.

i've gotten the job for every job interview i've ever had. i've gotten into the school for every school interview i've ever had. my interactions on this board are unlike any i have ever had off of it. i'll be fine

[jbagelboy]

You realize that grades below LP are really rare at Harvard, and can get you kicked out, right? You won't get a job at all if you're not in good academic standing.

that's exactly my point. no one gets LP's, let alone F's. You finish at the bottom of your class (effectively failing) and you still get a P, and still get biglaw

I know you're just trolling at this point, but if there's some rational part of you left and you actually are planning on attending, there are strike-outs from H and people that struggle to get biglaw jobs. If you hit all P's or an LP you could very easily strike out if you don't bid conservatively enough. Moreover, aspies with social dysfunction, comparable to many of the less amiable, awkward traits you've shown on this board, will routinely strike out at any school including Harvard. Watch your back, you're already starting out a step behind.

i've gotten the job for every job interview i've ever had. i've gotten into the school for every school interview i've ever had. my interactions on this board are unlike any i have ever had off of it. i'll be fine

I hope so