Class of 2013 Employment Data Forum

[SLS_AMG]

Berkeley student here. I have to say, if those numbers are correct, they're surprising and a bit disappointing. I think it's a bit premature to say that Berkeley is all of a sudden lagging behind, however.

A few thoughts:

-This year's graduating class (2014) has secured 42 federal clerkships. That's a 75% increase over these numbers.
-The non-NLJ big law numbers are a surprising departure from last year: I believe last year's numbers had about 10% of the class in these jobs, and this year's apparently only have about 3%?
-The school-funded rate is something I had no idea about. It looks a lot like the UVA jobs, but I do think it's important to keep in mind that Berkeley attracts a lot of the PI-oriented type and has always had strong PI numbers (whereas UVA has gone from like 5% PI to 20% PI as a result of their school-funded jobs).

42 clerkships? Wow

50 total, 42 of which were federal clerkships, 8 of which were state supreme court.

[rpupkin]

42 clerkships? Wow

Just to provide some context here: Over the past several years, top law schools began to stop participating (at first informally, but then later officially) in the now defunct plan. Boalt's CDO kept adhering to the plan. By fall of 2012, Boalt was essentially the only top school that kept its clerkship applicants on the plan. As a result, the class of 2013 had a rough go of it because so many of of the 2013 term clerkships were already filled when the on-plan students could submit their applications in September 2012.

For the class of 2014, Boalt went off the plan, and many students got 2014 term clerkships in the spring and summer of 2013. As a result, Boalt's clerkship numbers are substantially improved. Although we can't be sure, I expect that the class of 2014 clerkship placement numbers are more representative of what to expect moving forward.

[Tiago Splitter]

Going back to 2009 Berkeley has never placed more than 30 grads into Fed clerkships so 42 would be pretty amazing. Like clerkship placement on steroids. Makes sense being the Bay Area and all.

[BigZuck]

Going back to 2009 Berkeley has never placed more than 30 grads into Fed clerkships so 42 would be pretty amazing. Like clerkship placement on steroids. Makes sense being the Bay Area and all.

UT had 34 last year. I guess you're saying that 42 would be amazing not because of the raw numbers but because of what percentage of the class that represents?

Also, what do you know about clerkships? I thought you went to Columbia?

[SLS_AMG]

Going back to 2009 Berkeley has never placed more than 30 grads into Fed clerkships so 42 would be pretty amazing. Like clerkship placement on steroids. Makes sense being the Bay Area and all.

Yep. As rpupkin mentioned, when the hiring plan changed Berkeley's CDO did not adopt. Now they're of course taking credit for this year's class doing so well. I guess all CDOs are the same.

[Tiago Splitter]

Going back to 2009 Berkeley has never placed more than 30 grads into Fed clerkships so 42 would be pretty amazing. Like clerkship placement on steroids. Makes sense being the Bay Area and all.

UT had 34 last year. I guess you're saying that 42 would be amazing not because of the raw numbers but because of what percentage of the class that represents?

Also, what do you know about clerkships? I thought you went to Columbia?

lol I always just delete the clerkship emails. I never had interest, but I wouldn't be surprised if CLS also struggled to adjust to whatever these new clerkship realities are.

My comment about 42 being amazing is that it would far exceed Berkeley's typical performance even going back to the Plan days. I think the more general point about Berk's numbers is that one year never tells us much.

[jenesaislaw]

Where are you getting those numbers from for Berkeley? I know my source. And I trust it. But the discrepancy could explain the delay in the school releasing the data publicly.

FYI the numbers I have are 30 clerks total, 6 state and 24 federal.

[Tiago Splitter]

Where are you getting those numbers from for Berkeley? I know my source. And I trust it. But the discrepancy could explain the delay in the school releasing the data publicly.

FYI the numbers I have are 30 clerks total, 6 state and 24 federal.

He's saying they've lined up 42 federal clerkships for the class of 2014.

[worldtraveler]

Where are you getting those numbers from for Berkeley? I know my source. And I trust it. But the discrepancy could explain the delay in the school releasing the data publicly.

FYI the numbers I have are 30 clerks total, 6 state and 24 federal.

He's talking about the 2014 class.

[jenesaislaw]

Oops!

[SLS_AMG]

Where are you getting those numbers from for Berkeley? I know my source. And I trust it. But the discrepancy could explain the delay in the school releasing the data publicly.

FYI the numbers I have are 30 clerks total, 6 state and 24 federal.

Yep, I was talking about class of 2014. There was a clerkship reception a few weeks ago where CDO announced the 2014 numbers.

[whereskyle]

Where are you getting those numbers from for Berkeley? I know my source. And I trust it. But the discrepancy could explain the delay in the school releasing the data publicly.

FYI the numbers I have are 30 clerks total, 6 state and 24 federal.

Yep, I was talking about class of 2014. There was a clerkship reception a few weeks ago where CDO announced the 2014 numbers.

Why you gotta make me feel hurt about not getting berk again?

[20141023]

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[lecsa]

HYS
CC
NPC
DNV
MBG

YS
H
CC
NP
NCDV
MB
G

ultimate T14 subgroupings

Looks like it.
Can we update the first post of this thread with all the info posted so far?

[worldtraveler]

The school funded positions at Berkeley is a new thing for PI dedicated people. I think they had funding this year for up to 25 people to work with a 501c3 or a government office for a year. To get it you had to show that the position would be likely to lead to a full time position after the year of funding (show that the place had hired past fellows, regularly hires people with 1 year of experience).

As far as I know, everyone on it was hardcore dedicated to PI to begin with; I'm not aware of anyone on it who participated in OCI (then again, I don't know everyone in the class, so it's possible it's covering people who just struggled to get any kind of job).

Wow, that is pretty awesome. Good for Berkeley for realizing that school-funded jobs might not be such a bad thing when employment numbers aren't exactly great. UMich needs to start doing something like this, especially because of how much they tout their "PI Leadership" stuff but don't provide the funding to back it up.

Any school that doesn't have post grad funding shouldn't be claiming they support PI students. Or if their funding is terrible (aka Georgetown).

[BigZuck]

The school funded positions at Berkeley is a new thing for PI dedicated people. I think they had funding this year for up to 25 people to work with a 501c3 or a government office for a year. To get it you had to show that the position would be likely to lead to a full time position after the year of funding (show that the place had hired past fellows, regularly hires people with 1 year of experience).

As far as I know, everyone on it was hardcore dedicated to PI to begin with; I'm not aware of anyone on it who participated in OCI (then again, I don't know everyone in the class, so it's possible it's covering people who just struggled to get any kind of job).

Wow, that is pretty awesome. Good for Berkeley for realizing that school-funded jobs might not be such a bad thing when employment numbers aren't exactly great. UMich needs to start doing something like this, especially because of how much they tout their "PI Leadership" stuff but don't provide the funding to back it up.

Any school that doesn't have post grad funding shouldn't be claiming they support PI students. Or if their funding is terrible (aka Georgetown).

Guys, please stop saying good things about post grad fellowships for PI. You're about to bring a hail of MAF 0L's/UVA haters down on all of our asses.

[20141023]

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[Tiago Splitter]

Can we update the first post of this thread with all the info posted so far?

I'm waiting for the Berkeley info to post to their website. For the other schools I need the info in an easy to use, ctrl + c/ctrl + v format.

[yeslekkkk]

I was just thinking about UC Hastings the other day. Here's their 2013 employment: http://www.uchastings.edu/about/consume ... Report.pdf

42.8% LTFT. scary

[Tiago Splitter]

Added Hastings and Berkeley. Let me know if there are others that should be in the OP. FL Coastal GTFO.

[californiauser]

I was just thinking about UC Hastings the other day. Here's their 2013 employment: http://www.uchastings.edu/about/consume ... Report.pdf

42.8% LTFT. scary

not even worth a full ride + stipend. this school needs to close

[yeslekkkk]

I was just thinking about UC Hastings the other day. Here's their 2013 employment: http://www.uchastings.edu/about/consume ... Report.pdf

42.8% LTFT. scary

not even worth a full ride + stipend. this school needs to close

AND they're super stingy with money with extremely high COL. CRAZY.

[JCougar]

Any school that doesn't have post grad funding shouldn't be claiming they support PI students. Or if their funding is terrible (aka Georgetown).

Yes, I have to agree. It's probably the #1 path to getting a PI job these days. Not #1 as in effectiveness, but #1 in raw number of jobs obtained. #1 in effectiveness is obviously going to a super-elite school.

[rayiner]

Any school that doesn't have post grad funding shouldn't be claiming they support PI students. Or if their funding is terrible (aka Georgetown).

Yes, I have to agree. It's probably the #1 path to getting a PI job these days. Not #1 as in effectiveness, but #1 in raw number of jobs obtained. #1 in effectiveness is obviously going to a super-elite school.

I understand the rationale for PI funding, given the crisis in PI hiring. And it can be extremely effective. That said, it's also a system that's ripe for law schools to use as a means of gaming their employment numbers. Are, e.g., people at UVA, which employed 59 of 364 graduates (16.2%) so much more interested in public interest than people at Duke, which employed 11 of 241 (4.5%)?

We shouldn't discourage schools from offering these fellowships, but we have to report the numbers in a way that recognizes that these are usually second-choice jobs. I don't imagine a lot of people at UVA are taking a $30k/year fellowship when they have another public interest job as an option (median salary $47k/year, according to UVA).

[worldtraveler]

Any school that doesn't have post grad funding shouldn't be claiming they support PI students. Or if their funding is terrible (aka Georgetown).

Yes, I have to agree. It's probably the #1 path to getting a PI job these days. Not #1 as in effectiveness, but #1 in raw number of jobs obtained. #1 in effectiveness is obviously going to a super-elite school.

I understand the rationale for PI funding, given the crisis in PI hiring. And it can be extremely effective. That said, it's also a system that's ripe for law schools to use as a means of gaming their employment numbers. Are, e.g., people at UVA, which employed 59 of 364 graduates (16.2%) so much more interested in public interest than people at Duke, which employed 11 of 241 (4.5%)?

We shouldn't discourage schools from offering these fellowships, but we have to report the numbers in a way that recognizes that these are usually second-choice jobs. I don't imagine a lot of people at UVA are taking a $30k/year fellowship when they have another public interest job as an option (median salary $47k/year, according to UVA).

What would really be useful is information about how many with school funding either find a new job within that year or are kept on where they are a fellow.